LA gone before or on draft day

[EL PRESIDENTE]

If we keep on improving the team, I believe Aldridge would stay. With Dame and cap space and draft picks its not that far off. And the team is in an upward trajectory. Al Jefferson sucks he's in that tier of players that's solid but really won't take you to that next level

 

[RoyToy]

a) including LMA, how many potential All-Stars do you think we'll have at the PF position on July 11, 2015?
b) I think you're way underrating Jefferson.
c) Why can't Oladipo or Waiters be a "potential all-star"?
d) Tell me what makes one of these two players "potential All-Star LaMarcus Aldridge" and "not potential All-Star Tristan Thompson". The extra 6 shots per game he took at a lower %?

Sophomore Year
76 G, 76 GS, 34mpg, 17.8ppg(on 16shots/g)/7.6RPG/48.4% FG%(TS% 52.3)/12.8TRB%/108 ORtg/107DRtg/18.5PER
82 G, 82 GS, 31mpg, 11.7ppg(on 10shots/g)/9.4RPG/48.8% FG%(TS% 51.8)/17.5TRB%/108 ORtg/108DRtg/16.1PER

I mean, damn, I was ok with this trade thinking that Thompson was 75% of LMA. Now I'm not sure that's fair.

Thompson's skill set doesn't even compares to Aldridge's, even in Aldridge's early years. He's a hustle player with a bad jumper. He'll never be close to as good as Aldridge is right now.

 

[PapaG]

a) including LMA, how many potential All-Stars do you think we'll have at the PF position on July 11, 2015?
b) I think you're way underrating Jefferson.
c) Why can't Oladipo or Waiters be a "potential all-star"?
d) Tell me what makes one of these two players "potential All-Star LaMarcus Aldridge" and "not potential All-Star Tristan Thompson". The extra 6 shots per game he took at a lower %?

Sophomore Year
76 G, 76 GS, 34mpg, 17.8ppg(on 16shots/g)/7.6RPG/48.4% FG%(TS% 52.3)/12.8TRB%/108 ORtg/107DRtg/18.5PER
82 G, 82 GS, 31mpg, 11.7ppg(on 10shots/g)/9.4RPG/48.8% FG%(TS% 51.8)/17.5TRB%/108 ORtg/108DRtg/16.1PER

I mean, damn, I was ok with this trade thinking that Thompson was 75% of LMA. Now I'm not sure that's fair.

Tristan Thompson is a poor man's JJ Hickson. What an idiotic post.

LOL

 

[BrianFromWA]

I didn't say his skill set compares to Aldridge.

But while we're at it, he's a "hustle player" with a "bad jumper". Fair enough.
He took 364 jumpers this year and made 36.8% of them. That's not good.
LMA took 947 jumpers this year and made 41.8% of them. That's not good, either.
LMA took 756 jumpers in 2nd yr and made 41.4% of them. That's not good, either.
He took 328 dunks and layups this year.
LMA took 259 dunks and layups this year.
LMA took 207 dunks and layups his 2nd year.

He's a much better rebounder. He looked lost on D as a rookie (didn't see him this year), but he had a similar defensive reputation to LMA coming out of college.

I kind of like Thompson's skillset. But we have 6 months of threads showing that I don't like using LMA as a homeless man's Dirk, so that's nothing new.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Tristan Thompson is a poor man's JJ Hickson.

LOL

Its like Channing frye all over again.

hoop fam

 

[PapaG]

Its like Channing frye all over again.

hoop fam

Crazy pills on this board these days. Tristan Thompson is now LMA's equal, and Portland gets the better of the deal straight up. :MARIS61:

 

[BrianFromWA]

When in doubt, hyperbole!

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I dunno about you guys, but I'm expecting us to stay at 10, maybe get another late first-rounder. I'm not expecting anything earth-shattering to the roster. Not being Debbie-downer.... Just basing the mere opinion on typical hoopla that never materializes. I'd love to see NO shake it up, and I dont want to discredit NO, but based on all variables (the FA market, what we have the spend, the weak draft, etc.), I expect Thursday to be fairly routine. If he does something more, color me surprised, happy, excited (unless LMA is dumped like Z-Bo, which there's no reason to do).

What do you guys think happens?

 

[magnifier661]

When in doubt, hyperbole!

Hyperbole is comparing Thompson to Aldridge like they are close in value. Then bash on Aldridge over and over and over again; explaining how our franchise will never win with him on this team.

Well news flash. The blazers had three winning seasons with Aldridge. We just need a Roy type player. I think Lillard is close to being the same player.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Boy, the closer we get to the draft, the loopier you people get. You're going to have one hell of a post-draft hangover.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Boy, the closer we get to the draft, the loopier you people get. You're going to have one hell of a post-draft hangover.

I don't drink.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Mags, I invite you to read posts 270 and 274. If you find anything in the stats that is not factual, then please let me know and I'll correct it. Otherwise, how do you compare the two? Specifically, how do you compare LMA's 2nd year (on his way to multiple All-Star berths) with the assertion that none of Jefferson/Oladipo/Thompson/Waiters have even the "potential" to be an All-Star someday?

I've not said "our franchise will never win with him on the team." In fact, I've specifically said that if he signed an extension today I'd be all over the plans of you status-quo'ers that just want to add the big defensive C he wants and start contending.

Which bashes of LMA do you disagree with? That he doesn't rebound well, or that he shoots a lot of jumpers at an inefficient rate?

 

[RR7]

I didn't say his skill set compares to Aldridge.

But while we're at it, he's a "hustle player" with a "bad jumper". Fair enough.
He took 364 jumpers this year and made 36.8% of them. That's not good.
LMA took 947 jumpers this year and made 41.8% of them. That's not good, either.
LMA took 756 jumpers in 2nd yr and made 41.4% of them. That's not good, either.
He took 328 dunks and layups this year.
LMA took 259 dunks and layups this year.
LMA took 207 dunks and layups his 2nd year.

He's a much better rebounder. He looked lost on D as a rookie (didn't see him this year), but he had a similar defensive reputation to LMA coming out of college.

I kind of like Thompson's skillset. But we have 6 months of threads showing that I don't like using LMA as a homeless man's Dirk, so that's nothing new.

JJ Hickson had 411 dunk and lay up attempts this season. Hence many of the comparisons of the two as "hustle players" You can try to just look at their shot chart and think well, he's getting easier baskets, but you fail to look at how he is getting those baskets. He adds an additional player that is HUGELY reliant on others to basically get his offense for him, through passes at the basket, or rebounding their misses. I don't want to knock offensive rebounds. I also don't want to boost them up as evidence of a guys offensive prowess. You like to look at shot charts, without the how they got those shots. Needing someone else to create all of that offense puts a lot more pressure on Lillard and.....well, Lillard. Who will see a shit load of double teams next season.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Who will see a shit load of double teams next season.

...so that he can pass it to someone who is open? And goes toward the hoop? Or shoots open 3's? Or sets up in the low post? Or picks and ROLLS to the hoop?

You do realize that Damian shooting 13 3's a game at even a stupidly low 28% clip is more efficient (my opinion: "better for the offense and therefore the team") than LMA's 947 jumpers at 41%, right?

I recognize that the skillsets are different. I recognize that there is a large difference in value from someone who can theoretically pull a center out of the paint, and that JJ Hickson/Tristan Thompson would not be good in the "homeless man's Dirk" role LMA's been playing, either. But I haven't heard Thompson (or Hickson, for that matter) say that they didn't want to play down low, banging 6 times with Chuck Hayes to get into position, and would rather shoot inefficient jumpers, so we better get a big rebounder and defender so he can keep doing so. I've heard that from the guy who will be an unrestricted free agent in 2 years

 

[RR7]

947 jumpers at 41%?

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

Well news flash. The blazers had three winning seasons with Aldridge. We just need a Roy type player. I think Lillard is close to being the same player.

So we should model our rebuild plan around a team that never made it out of the first round?

 

[BrianFromWA]

947 jumpers at 41%?

yeah. Not good.

 

[RR7]

yeah. Not good.

where are you pulling that from?

 

[BrianFromWA]

his shooting stats.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aldrila01/shooting/2013/

 

[magnifier661]

Mags, I invite you to read posts 270 and 274. If you find anything in the stats that is not factual, then please let me know and I'll correct it. Otherwise, how do you compare the two? Specifically, how do you compare LMA's 2nd year (on his way to multiple All-Star berths) with the assertion that none of Jefferson/Oladipo/Thompson/Waiters have even the "potential" to be an All-Star someday?

I've not said "our franchise will never win with him on the team." In fact, I've specifically said that if he signed an extension today I'd be all over the plans of you status-quo'ers that just want to add the big defensive C he wants and start contending.

Which bashes of LMA do you disagree with? That he doesn't rebound well, or that he shoots a lot of jumpers at an inefficient rate?

There are so many factors to think of

1.) think Larry Johnson; who had a great rookie campaign and a few years later. Then became a shell of a man after his injury.

2.) Aldridge his first few years was very underdeveloped, also had a coach that never liked playing younger players. Then you add Zach Randolph starting at of; which effected Lma's numbers.

3.) lma is a two time all-star voted in by coaches. Should have been a three time during the lamonster campaign. There is absolutely no guarantee that Thompson will ever get there, let alone get to aldridges level.

4.) Aldridge maybe a jump shooter like you mentioned; but he's still respected from the perimeter. Teams will not leave him wide open; which opens the lane for Lillard and batum. Thompson's shot is suspect and teams will sag off him and double the lane.

I can go on an on if you like?

 

[magnifier661]

So we should model our rebuild plan around a team that never made it out of the first round?

There are more than just player factors on why we didn't make it past the first round.

1.) the coach

2.) the terrible perimeter shooting

3.) no inside game up until the last playoff appearance; but by that time Roy was a shell of hinself

 

[BrianFromWA]

There are so many factors to think of

1.) think Larry Johnson; who had a great rookie campaign and a few years later. Then became a shell of a man after his injury.

So, maybe I'm getting this wrong, but there's no potential for one of those players to be an All-Star someday because there's potential for a Larry Johnson-like injury? I don't quite get how that works.

2.) Aldridge his first few years was very underdeveloped, also had a coach that never liked playing younger players. Then you add Zach Randolph starting at of; which effected Lma's numbers.

Z-bo was not around for LMA's 2nd season, so he started every game he played. Just like Thompson did for CLE in his 2nd year. And if you're going to say that LMA was underdeveloped (which I won't argue much), then why can't TT (who's a full year younger in his 2nd year than LMA was in his 2nd year) be underdeveloped and eventually get better?

3.) lma is a two time all-star voted in by coaches. Should have been a three time during the lamonster campaign. There is absolutely no guarantee that Thompson will ever get there, let alone get to aldridges level.

Of course there's no "guarantee". There was no guarantee in 2007 that LMA would be a two-time All-Star. But there was potential. Like there's potential (in my opinion) for one of Jefferson/Oladipo/Thompson/Waiters to be one someday.

4.) Aldridge maybe a jump shooter like you mentioned; but he's still respected from the perimeter. Teams will not leave him wide open; which opens the lane for Lillard and batum. Thompson's shot is suspect and teams will sag off him and double the lane.

I don't have access to synergy, so I don't know what the "contested" vs. "uncontested" would be. My opinion on it (which is by no means unassailable) is that if you're shooting .83 points per shot on anything, you should re-evaluate whether you should be shooting it. That goes for shooting 41% from the FT line, 28% from 3, 41% on mid-range jumpers, whatever.

I can go on an on if you like?[/QUOTE]

 

[magnifier661]

So, maybe I'm getting this wrong, but there's no potential for one of those players to be an All-Star someday because there's potential for a Larry Johnson-like injury? I don't quite get how that works.

I just used Larry Johnson as a reference. But all players aren't guaranteed shit. There is always "upside" but seeing Oden; we can see how upside can backfire.

Aldridge is a sure thing; Thompson is still a question.

Z-bo was not around for LMA's 2nd season, so he started every game he played. Just like Thompson did for CLE in his 2nd year. And if you're going to say that LMA was underdeveloped (which I won't argue much), then why can't TT (who's a full year younger in his 2nd year than LMA was in his 2nd year) be underdeveloped and eventually get better?

Big difference is that the scouting on Thompson wasn't even close to Aldridge. Also, Aldridge has proven his work ethic is amazing. How is thompsons?

And Aldridge's second year; Roy was the man and took the majority of shots. Also; Portland shot the least shots in the entire nba.

Of course there's no "guarantee". There was no guarantee in 2007 that LMA would be a two-time All-Star. But there was potential. Like there's potential (in my opinion) for one of Jefferson/Oladipo/Thompson/Waiters to be one someday.

Truth. Thompson isn't an allstar and Aldridge is two time. We weren't having these convos about Aldridge in 2007 about being in the all-star game. We only know what we know.

I don't have access to synergy, so I don't know what the "contested" vs. "uncontested" would be. My opinion on it (which is by no means unassailable) is that if you're shooting .83 points per shot on anything, you should re-evaluate whether you should be shooting it. That goes for shooting 41% from the FT line, 28% from 3, 41% on mid-range jumpers, whatever.

I can go on an on if you like?

Come on dude; you can watch the games and see. Don't act like you haven't noticed aldridges ability to demand doubles or make the d honest.

 

[blazerboy30]

a) including LMA, how many potential All-Stars do you think we'll have at the PF position on July 11, 2015?
b) I think you're way underrating Jefferson.
c) Why can't Oladipo or Waiters be a "potential all-star"?
d) Tell me what makes one of these two players "potential All-Star LaMarcus Aldridge" and "not potential All-Star Tristan Thompson". The extra 6 shots per game he took at a lower %?

Sophomore Year
76 G, 76 GS, 34mpg, 17.8ppg(on 16shots/g)/7.6RPG/48.4% FG%(TS% 52.3)/12.8TRB%/108 ORtg/107DRtg/18.5PER
82 G, 82 GS, 31mpg, 11.7ppg(on 10shots/g)/9.4RPG/48.8% FG%(TS% 51.8)/17.5TRB%/108 ORtg/108DRtg/16.1PER

I mean, damn, I was ok with this trade thinking that Thompson was 75% of LMA. Now I'm not sure that's fair.

This "analysis" doesn't make the case you think it makes.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Brian, is Tristan better than JJ Hickson?

I'm no Hickson fan but come on...

 

[BrianFromWA]

I'm not trying to be obtuse, but what does JJ Hickson have to do with this?

 

[Pinwheel1]

Crazy pills on this board these days. Tristan Thompson is now LMA's equal, and Portland gets the better of the deal straight up. :MARIS61:

I am still trying to figure out when Dion Waiters turned into a a good player.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

I'm not trying to be obtuse, but what does JJ Hickson have to do with this?

if JJ Hickson is better than him, and JJ Hickson isn't worth having...

 

[BrianFromWA]

I'd put up a comparison, but that would somehow turn into me taking a position. I will say that I don't have any confidence in Hickson's potential to be an all-star, though.

And I don't know that I've said JJ Hickson "wasn't worth having." I don't think keeping his cap hold is smart. I don't think bringing him back at the contract he'll probably command WITH LMA here is smart.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Basically, if keeping Hickson and trading LMA for only the #1 would be a better plan...

Its not a good plan