Larry Sanders

[ponderguy]

Milwaukee apparently doesn't think he's worth it. Does he take minutes from Ropez? Or, does he get paid $11m to play Freeland's minutes?

This isn't fantasy basketball.

No he get's paid 11 million to start. He would overtake Lopez in the starting lineup before too long. as good as lopez has been for the team this year he is still only a slightly above average defensive center. He would be a fantastic backup and is a good starter but Sanders has DPOY potential and has shown he has that ability. We should not look at the starting 5 as some holy combination that can never be messed with. Lopez is a big upgrade over what Hickson gave us last year but we still need more from that spot with how inept our backcourt is defensively.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I'd say he takes Robin's role (29 minutes) while Robin takes Joel's (19 minutes) and Joel takes Robinson's (11 minutes).

That would be a mistake, I think. We definitely should not demote Lopez given the chemistry that the starters currently have and Lopez's familiarity with the team. No, Sanders should just take any and all frontcourt reserve minutes.

The major problem with this whole idea is that you can't really play Sanders and Lopez together, which means no rest for Aldridge.

Or maybe you can: Robin seems able to hit a midrange jump shot, so...

 

[ponderguy]

That would be a mistake, I think. We definitely should not demote Lopez given the chemistry that the starters currently have and Lopez's familiarity with the team. No, Sanders should just take any and all frontcourt reserve minutes.

The major problem with this whole idea is that you can't really play Sanders and Lopez together, which means no rest for Aldridge.

Or maybe you can: Robin seems able to hit a midrange jump shot, so...

Maybe not right away but Lopez has only been here for half a season. Why should he be guaranteed a starting role? How can anyone else build chemistry with the starters if they don't play together?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Maybe not right away but Lopez has only been here for half a season. Why should he be guaranteed a starting role? How can anyone else build chemistry with the starters if they don't play together?

I think Lopez is being undervalued. He may actually be a better player than Sanders, all round. We don't know that Sanders isn't the all-defense version of JJ Hickson - that is, somebody who looks great individually but doesn't actually help the team much. Lopez may be kind of lumbering but he's the absolute essence of a team player and has a considerably better PER than Sanders.

If Sanders earns a starting position, then fine, let him earn it. But you don't just hand a starting role to a guy you traded for if the incumbent has been great for you. That's just against the unwritten rules.

 

[ponderguy]

I think Lopez is being undervalued. He may actually be a better player than Sanders, all round. We don't know that Sanders isn't the all-defense version of JJ Hickson - that is, somebody who looks great individually but doesn't actually help the team much. Lopez may be kind of lumbering but he's the absolute essence of a team player and has a considerably better PER than Sanders.

If Sanders earns a starting position, then fine, let him earn it. But you don't just hand a starting role to a guy you traded for if the incumbent has been great for you. That's just against the unwritten rules.

I'd say the all defense version of JJ Hickson would be perfect for the starters. We have enough scoring in the starting 5 that a -offensive player at center wouldn't hurt. Robin's offense would bring a nice dimension to the bench as well and would help some of our scoring problems there. I'm not saying to just hand him the starting job, just that if he comes in and earns it then he should be given it. The chemistry Lopez has with the starters should not keep Sanders on the bench if sanders is performing better than Lopez. PER probably isn't the best stat to compare them with since it only measures offense.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I think we're basically in agreement. Our only difference is on the likelihood of Sanders earning the starting spot after a while. I think Lopez's contributions are massive in terms of spacing, passing, offensive rebounding and the like. I think he's the major reason for the Blazers' big improvement from last year. I think the starters should be a well-oiled machine and the bench is the place for players who can come in and disrupt things.

 

[ponderguy]

I think we're basically in agreement. Our only difference is on the likelihood of Sanders earning the starting spot after a while. I think Lopez's contributions are massive in terms of spacing, passing, offensive rebounding and the like. I think he's the major reason for the Blazers' big improvement from last year. I think the starters should be a well-oiled machine and the bench is the place for players who can come in and disrupt things.

Most definitely. I think you're underestimating Sanders a bit though. He has great ability as a rebounder and he is also arguably a better passer than Lopez. He assists on a higher % of plays and had 83 on the year last year.

Sanders 12-13
ORB% 12%
DRB% 25.8%
TRB% 18.6%
Block% 7.6% (best in league)
Assist% 6.8%

Sanders 13-14
ORB% 9.9%
DRB% 20.5%
TRB% 15%
Block% 5.8%
Assist% 5.2%

Lopez 13-14
ORB% 13.6%
DRB% 15%
TRB% 14.3%
Block% 3.3%
Assist% 3.7%

I think Sanders can provide a lot of things Lopez brings while also improving the overall team defense more

 

[Strenuus]

 

[blue9]

Leonard/CJ/Mo/Wright for Sanders/Ridnour: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nr6un9m

 

[santeesioux]

Ridnour would be cool as the back up pg.

 

[dviss1]

We better get him before the Mavs do:

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mave...arry-sanders-make-sense?ex_cid=espnapi_public

 

[Schilly]

Yeah I'm just not feeling the value for $$$ here. I know we need to help our bench, but I think so many of the trades are just not very well thought out, with the focus being mor eon getting Sanders than what we would actually have left.

Example... Leonard/CJ/Mo/Wright for Sanders/Ridnour

So our 2nd unit would be? Ridnour - Barton - Freeland and Sanders. We complain now about a lack of offensive production from our bench, and we would be taking a step back here. And if yo look at hollingers analysis his #'s suggest a -3 game affect on the Blazers.

 

[blue9]

And if yo look at hollingers analysis his #'s suggest a -3 game affect on the Blazers.

I hear what you're saying with the "what's left after the trade" part of your post, but Hollinger's -3 is stupid. It means absolutely nothing.
And in regards to my proposed trade - which, admittedly I put very little thought/effort into - we're sending out two rotation players (Mo & CJ) and getting two rotation players in return. So it doesn't do anything to our depth, it just changes what positions we have depth at - we give up back-court depth for front-court depth. I'd argue that Ridnour is a better PG than Mo (and Lillard!), but wouldn't provide the scoring potential that Mo does. So then the question becomes: Will Ridnour's ability to play PG generate more points than Mo's ability to generate points for himself? The second unit would be:

Ridnour
Robinson
Freeland
Lopez

I think R/F/L have all shown some ability to score, and perhaps with someone like Ridnour - rather than Mo - on the floor they'd get better scoring opportunities. We'd be weak at SG, so other than spot minutes for Crabbe either Wes or Dame would need to play the bulk of those minutes.

If Sanders is truly as great at defense as people proclaim him to be I think we could weather being weak at SG since SG is the least talented position in the NBA.

 

[TBpup]

So our 2nd unit would be? Ridnour - Barton - Freeland and Sanders. We complain now about a lack of offensive production from our bench, and we would be taking a step back here. And if yo look at hollingers analysis his #'s suggest a -3 game affect on the Blazers.

Is that -3 from the 24-5 start or -3 from the recent 10-9 stretch?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Yeah I'm just not feeling the value for $$$ here. I know we need to help our bench, but I think so many of the trades are just not very well thought out, with the focus being mor eon getting Sanders than what we would actually have left.

Example... Leonard/CJ/Mo/Wright for Sanders/Ridnour

So our 2nd unit would be? Ridnour - Barton - Freeland and Sanders. We complain now about a lack of offensive production from our bench, and we would be taking a step back here. And if yo look at hollingers analysis his #'s suggest a -3 game affect on the Blazers.

First of all, you're forgetting Crabbe.
Second, we can always mix at least one starter in there.
Third, Hollinger's "this will affect the team's outcome" thing is practically a random number generator. First, it's presumably based on his beloved PER, which is no measure of team success. Second, there's no way it could calculate how PER would change with a change of team, and it's arguable that Sanders's PER is unrepresentatively depressed because of the wacky Bucks' season and his injuries and suspension.
Fourth, some "bench mobs" have been remarkably successful despite it not looking likely. Think Sacramento's odd assortment in the glory days of the Kings.

 

[Schilly]

Ok So Crabbe.... I didn't forget him, he just hasn't played enough for me to comfortably be able to say yeah he'd fill a void. We have that same void now and he's not playing now.

 

[blue9]

Ok So Crabbe.... I didn't forget him, he just hasn't played enough for me to comfortably be able to say yeah he'd fill a void. We have that same void now and he's not playing now.

So then the trade wouldn't create a void, since the void already exists.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Ok So Crabbe.... I didn't forget him, he just hasn't played enough for me to comfortably be able to say yeah he'd fill a void. We have that same void now and he's not playing now.

Right now his role is being filled by CJ. There's only really a point in playing one of them, given how few minutes the one gets anyway.

 

[cmeese47]

I am going to say this once and only once if Milwaukee is willing to trade him for any combination of players off our bench then we must make that deal simple as that because it is a fucking gift.

Paul Allen has plenty of money so adding Sanders means very little if the goal is to keep the current core together.

Milwaukee though is not going to deal him for some combo of Crabbe, Leonard or whatever scrubs people keep suggesting.

 

[PapaG]

Right now his role is being filled by CJ. There's only really a point in playing one of them, given how few minutes the one gets anyway.

There's really no point in playing either of them, actually.

 

[PapaG]

I am going to say this once and only once if Milwaukee is willing to trade him for any combination of players off our bench then we must make that deal simple as that because it is a fucking gift.

Paul Allen has plenty of money so adding Sanders means very little if the goal is to keep the current core together.

Milwaukee though is not going to deal him for some combo of Crabbe, Leonard or whatever scrubs people keep suggesting.

Thank you for being realistic. If the Blazers had a first-round pick, it probably wouldn't matter, anyhow. Lopez would have to be a part of any trade for Sanders, and Olshey had better be 100% on Sanders not resorting to his headcase status in Portland.

It's not going to happen, anyhow. LMA and Ropez are tight, and LMA could still leave if Olshey brings in a knucklehead who makes the team worse.

 

[OneLifeToLive]

Wow this threads really blew up. You would think an actual deal is imminent

 

[PapaG]

Wow this threads really blew up. You would think an actual deal is imminent

Sometimes it's fun to argue against Fantasy Land Trade guy. I always wonder how their brain works, in thinking that their shit trades would actually work in Realistic Land. Bringing in anyone who disrupts the core of this team could mean LMA reconsiders his future as a Blazer. Sanders at $11m/per is never going to happen, as the people in Realistic Land know.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Sometimes it's fun to argue against Fantasy Land Trade guy. I always wonder how their brain works, in thinking that their shit trades would actually work in Realistic Land. Bringing in anyone who disrupts the core of this team could mean LMA reconsiders his future as a Blazer. Sanders at $11m/per is never going to happen, as the people in Realistic Land know.

Ah, I call that the BGD disease.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Talking about fantasy land trades, who would have thunk we could have got a guy as valuable as Robin Lopez for two second round draft picks? And he didn't even have burdensome contract or off-court problems.

 

[Natebishop3]

Fantasy land trades happen.

Would anyone have thought we'd get Robin Lopez for table scraps? No.

It's fun for some people to sit down at the trade machine and try to figure out ways to make something happen. If you don't enjoy coming up with trades, that's fine, but it's not cool stomp on other people and call their ideas stupid.

 

[Natebishop3]

Talking about fantasy land trades, who would have thunk we could have got a guy as valuable as Robin Lopez for two second round draft picks? And he didn't even have burdensome contract or off-court problems.

Exactly. Repped.

 

[ponderguy]

Talking about fantasy land trades, who would have thunk we could have got a guy as valuable as Robin Lopez for two second round draft picks? And he didn't even have burdensome contract or off-court problems.

or Thomas Robinson for 4 second round picks?
or the Pau Gasol trade to the lakers? While it looks good in hindsight at the time it was called one of the greatest robberies of all time. No one on the internet would have said this trade was possible yet it happened.
Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, Aaron McKie, the draft rights to Marc Gasol, and the Lakers' 2008 and 2010 first-round draft picks for Pau Gasol and a second-round pick in 2010

weird trade happens much more in reality land than deals that have equal talent on both sides and make sense for both teams do.

 

[illmatic99]

Wow this threads really blew up. You would think an actual deal is imminent

Kinda reminds me of the Asik for LA/ Boozer for LA 90 page threads on the Rockets/Bulls boards.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Sometimes it's fun to argue against Fantasy Land Trade guy. I always wonder how their brain works, in thinking that their shit trades would actually work in Realistic Land. Bringing in anyone who disrupts the core of this team could mean LMA reconsiders his future as a Blazer. Sanders at $11m/per is never going to happen, as the people in Realistic Land know.

But you're not on speaking terms with those people.