Lesbian couple refused wedding cake files state discrimination complaint

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This case is likely to settle out of court, but if I was on a jury and just knowing what I know in this thread . . . I would find for the plaintiffs and award them $1.00
 
Treaty_of_Batum said:
This case is likely to settle out of court, but if I was on a jury and just knowing what I know in this thread . . . I would find for the plaintiffs and award them $1.00
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but part of that award is to make sure they, and others in the community follow the law. If you just awarded $1 then I am pretty sure the bakers would go home feeling like they won and can do it again and again. Others in the community who wish to discriminate will think, hey, it's only costs a buck, for the price of a soda i can discriminate to my hearts content.

It seems to me, something tough but not totally detrimental would be better, an award in the $1-5,000 range. Enough to sting but not enough to make them lose their business.
 
crandc said:
Refusing to sell product to someone is refusing service! Damn, and I thought Jews were good at splitting hairs.

One's home is not the same as a public business. And the law clearly recognizes this. A public business is a public place, people can and do walk in. That's what the business is for, after all. One's home is one's own space. You (should) have every right to close your doors. That is unfortunately not always respected. Denny, you are not a stupid person and not a bigot so will you get off your libertarian "business can do anything they want" high horse and not post ridiculous comments like your home and your business are the same thing? I'm sure you know they are not.

Still waiting to hear what other laws businesses are allowed to break if they feel like it or because Jesus.
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The law is what's wrong.

No one is arguing that the law doesn't exist, just that it shouldn't.

So saying over and over again that it's against the law for a business to discriminate is pointless.

I just feel like a lot of people weren't understanding that point of view in this thread.
 
Further said:
but part of that award is to make sure they, and others in the community follow the law. If you just awarded $1 then I am pretty sure the bakers would go home feeling like they won and can do it again and again. Others in the community who wish to discriminate will think, hey, it's only costs a buck, for the price of a soda i can discriminate to my hearts content.

It seems to me, something tough but not totally detrimental would be better, an award in the $1-5,000 range. Enough to sting but not enough to make them lose their business.
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That is good point. That verdict probably wouldn't do much to correct the business' conduct . . . the $1.00 is more a reflection of what I think the damages are to the couple in a case like this. Maybe the atty will file for punative damages which is more about sending a message to the business.

There are also attorney fees involved that might help the bakery to make a different decision next time. Really after talking to an attorney, they probably realize all they have to do is give a "valid" reason why they won't sell a cake and they can avoid this all together.
 
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VanillaGorilla said:
The law is what's wrong.

No one is arguing that the law doesn't exist, just that it shouldn't.

So saying over and over again that it's against the law for a business to discriminate is pointless.

I just feel like a lot of people weren't understanding that point of view in this thread.
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Ding ding ding! Winner winner tuckey dinner! We-eeeeeew! we-eeeeeew! We-eeeeeew!

And I thought reading comprehension was an issue with today's youth........
 
Treaty_of_Batum said:
This case is likely to settle out of court, but if I was on a jury and just knowing what I know in this thread . . . I would find for the plaintiffs and award them $1.00
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Child please. Don't you remember the OHSU case where the money grubbbers would have aborted their pregnancy if they'd have known their fetus was retarded was awared some serious cash money because the doctors were incorrect on the test that NOT 100% guaranteed? I expect this lovely couple to be awarded at least double, if not triple, the amount.
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
Child please. Don't you remember the OHSU case where the money grubbbers would have aborted their pregnancy if they'd have known their fetus was retarded was awared some serious cash money because the doctors were incorrect on the test that NOT 100% guaranteed? I expect this lovely couple to be awarded at least double, if not triple, the amount.
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A little difference between birth of a child and a wedding cake, but yes if they win they will likely get over $1.00

If you were on the jury and by law found the business violated the law, you are then required to award damages to the plaintiff for the suffering and inconvenience. What dollar amount would you give to the plaintiffs in this case (again assuming by law they are right and you have to award damages)
 
Treaty_of_Batum said:
A little difference between birth of a child and a wedding cake, but yes if they win they will likely get over $1.00

If you were on the jury and by law found the business violated the law, you are then required to award damages to the plaintiff for the suffering and inconvenience. What dollar amount would you give to the plaintiffs in this case (again assuming by law they are right and you have to award damages)
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The sarcasm went over your head? I felt the OHSU case was a complete and utter joke (as did many, since the couple that was awarded the millions of dollars allegedly received death threats).

I thought my stance on this situation was perfectly clear. The complaint is a joke. I hope it gets tossed out. I hope neither side is given a penny.

Okay, give the couple a penny, since they should come out ahead of the bakers in the end because were it not for the bakers denying the couple a cake, none of this would be an issue.
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
The sarcasm went over your head? I felt the OHSU case was a complete and utter joke (as did many, since the couple that was awarded the millions of dollars allegedly received death threats).

I thought my stance on this situation was perfectly clear. The complaint is a joke. I hope it gets tossed out. I hope neither side is given a penny.

Okay, give the couple a penny, since they should come out ahead of the bakers in the end because were it not for the bakers denying the couple a cake, none of this would be an issue.
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I got you were being funny (child please) but you did raise a good point. If that case gets millions in MULTO, then this cake case will get over $1.00 in the same venue.

For all the jokes and bad mouthing the Westside takes (probably justified) . . . file this case in WACO and it get tossed out, IMO. In fact, no attorney would file that in WACO. Not a lot of liberal sympathy going on out here . . . demographics is a lot of hispanics and white collar families . . . and the white collar famalies don't seem to like the hispanics . . . but they do love their neatly manicured lawns.
 
Found this:

OREGON CITY -- A Clackamas County jury sent a clear signal Tuesday that parents who rely solely on faith healing to treat their children face prison if a child dies.

Jeffrey and Marci Beagley were found guilty Tuesday of criminally negligent homicide in the death of their 16-year-old son, Neil. The boy died in June 2008 of complications from an undiagnosed congenital urinary blockage after his parents attempted to heal him with prayer, anointing with oil and laying on of hands.

They are the first members of Oregon City's Followers of Christ church convicted of homicide in the congregation's long history of children dying from from treatable medical conditions.

"This is a signal to the religious community that they should be on notice that their activities will be scrutinized," said Steven K. Green, director of Willamette University's Center for Religion and Democracy.



Can't always hide behind religion to justify your actions
 
VanillaGorilla said:
The law is what's wrong.

No one is arguing that the law doesn't exist, just that it shouldn't.

So saying over and over again that it's against the law for a business to discriminate is pointless.

I just feel like a lot of people weren't understanding that point of view in this thread.
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Not sure I am following here. Is the point that the law that prohibits discrimination by businesses of protected classes a bad idea or just a law that prohibits discrimination by businesses on the basis of sexual orientation? You realize that without this law, racial segregation by commercial businesses is basically legal.
 
Treaty_of_Batum said:
Found this:

OREGON CITY -- A Clackamas County jury sent a clear signal Tuesday that parents who rely solely on faith healing to treat their children face prison if a child dies.

Jeffrey and Marci Beagley were found guilty Tuesday of criminally negligent homicide in the death of their 16-year-old son, Neil. The boy died in June 2008 of complications from an undiagnosed congenital urinary blockage after his parents attempted to heal him with prayer, anointing with oil and laying on of hands.

They are the first members of Oregon City's Followers of Christ church convicted of homicide in the congregation's long history of children dying from from treatable medical conditions.

"This is a signal to the religious community that they should be on notice that their activities will be scrutinized," said Steven K. Green, director of Willamette University's Center for Religion and Democracy.



Can't always hide behind religion to justify your actions
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For those who were in complete favor of the gay couple and kept tossing out, "You can't make those comparisons," I say that about this case. Cake versus death? Slight difference.
 
Treaty_of_Batum said:
I got you were being funny (child please) but you did raise a good point. If that case gets millions in MULTO, then this cake case will get over $1.00 in the same venue.

For all the jokes and bad mouthing the Westside takes (probably justified) . . . file this case in WACO and it get tossed out, IMO. In fact, no attorney would file that in WACO. Not a lot of liberal sympathy going on out here . . . demographics is a lot of hispanics and white collar families . . . and the white collar famalies don't seem to like the hispanics . . . but they do love their neatly manicured lawns.
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Just making sure. If the plaintiff gets to choose the venue, they no doubt choose Multnomah County. They're bound to be given a king's ransom.
 
Zybot said:
Not sure I am following here. Is the point that the law that prohibits discrimination by businesses of protected classes a bad idea or just a law that prohibits discrimination by businesses on the basis of sexual orientation? You realize that without this law, racial segregation by commercial businesses is basically legal.
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Racial segregation by commercial business was legislated, not by business' choice.
 
What the dude should have done was make the cake with a bunch of laxative. They would probably blame it on the caterers
 
Mags -- you should dose on exlax. Best high ever. :)

Edit: Actually it's a shitty drug. Don't do it.
 
The bakery announced its closure and will now be an in-home bakery.

Per katu.com
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
They weren't refusing overall service or other products. They refused a wedding cake because they did not produce a wedding cake for something that does not exist from their viewpoint. If gay marriage doesn't exist to them, how can they produce a wedding cake?
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Pretty much the same way they produce every other cake, I imagine. Gay wedding cakes don't require special gay flour or gay baking soda.

barfo
 
barfo said:
Pretty much the same way they produce every other cake, I imagine. Gay wedding cakes don't require special gay flour or gay baking soda.

barfo
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That's not what I was saying in any way, but creating ridiculous responses that confuse the point is a good way to not lose an argument.
 
Geez! hard to believe this thread draws attention. But since it does I want to know how you make a kosher gay wedding cake?
 
MarAzul said:
Geez! hard to believe this thread draws attention. But since it does I want to know how you make a kosher gay wedding cake?
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Rainbow-Jewish-Same-sex-gay-Civil-Union-Cake-Colorado.jpg
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Rainbow-Jewish-Same-sex-gay-Civil-Union-Cake-Colorado.jpg
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Ah! But by the laws of kashrus is to conform to the Divine Will, expressed in the Torah. It seems you can probably make a cake as you have shown but is the wedding cake fully Kosher?
It seems some of the Torah might have been ignored.
 
Some info on Kosher.

"A kosher bakery uses kosher ingredients to produce the end product as kosher. Here is an example of where some complexity could enter into the picture. Kosher ingredients may be used but processed on non-kosher equipment. Items used in processing that are often not listed as ingredients could also make the end result non-kosher"

It is some of items in the process of the Wedding cake that bring up the question.
 
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