Let the Xmas bans begin!

[RR7]

Have one on the way. And I'll be pissed at myself if I raise her in a way that turns her into a whining mess because someone put up a symbol that doesn't reflect a belief system that we have in our household. I think, the more celebrations, the better. If she goes to a school that has celebrations for all sorts of shit, great. If it's only a select few, so be it. I'm not religious. I celebrate Christmas. Not in a religious sense, but as a winter holiday. I will pass along my beliefs about the holiday, and my practices, and she can see fit to celebrate it that way, or take on the religious belief of it if she wants. How does having a kid change the fact that those parents sucks? And by whining about petty shit like that, they are most likely just raising a future bunch of whine at first opportunity, litigate at every opportunity bunch of brats, most likely. It pisses me off.

 

[Buzz Killington]

+1

People are so lame nowadays.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Have one on the way. And I'll be pissed at myself if I raise her in a way that turns her into a whining mess because someone put up a symbol that doesn't reflect a belief system that we have in our household. I think, the more celebrations, the better. If she goes to a school that has celebrations for all sorts of shit, great. If it's only a select few, so be it. I'm not religious. I celebrate Christmas. Not in a religious sense, but as a winter holiday. I will pass along my beliefs about the holiday, and my practices, and she can see fit to celebrate it that way, or take on the religious belief of it if she wants. How does having a kid change the fact that those parents sucks? And by whining about petty shit like that, they are most likely just raising a future bunch of whine at first opportunity, litigate at every opportunity bunch of brats, most likely. It pisses me off.

Kids are fragile. Kids who come from households that don't celebrate what the majority celbrates are particularly fragile as most kids will want to fit in rather than stick out.

I get being pissed off, but children are unpredictable. You assume the parents are being petty, but until you are in their householdand know what issues they are dealing with, it is very hard to understand what somke of them are going through.

Same issue with needy and special ed kids. How much does the school bend over to accomodate those kids needs and feeling vs. acting more towards appeasing the masses.

I too hope you don't raise a fragile child (sometimes out of your control) . . . I hope if you do have a fragile child, that other parent don't take the fuck that kid attitude, because it is tough enough for adults to be in the minority, for some kids . . . it could change them for life.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

+1

People are so lame nowadays.

Lame or more considerate . . . depends how you look at it.

 

[RR7]

Only considerate when it comes to themselves, then. Like I said, they aren't considerate of jehovah's witnesses, and their children. Having to deal with all of those birthday celebrations. It's sickening. Poor children. Seriously, they either are only thinking of themselves, not considerate of ruining the celebrations of others, and I sometimes wonder if it is more about making a scene than really being annoyed at it all. And this case is more annoying because it's a tree. I can understand to an extent the complaints about manger scenes, and specific religious decorations. But what about eggs around easter? Or, really, any easter decoration? And wouldn't a decoration of santa be banned as well? It's not religious in nature, but represents the religious holiday. It annoys me more because it was a giving tree, or gift tree, or whatever they are called, that has gifts for needy kids on there. Great way to teach your kid something great, and maybe a true spirit of a holiday. Why does that have to be about the religion, anda kid feeling left out? Why not teach your sensitive kid that this time of year is a time of giving to others, and this is a way of doing it? Sometimes, raising a sensitive kid is out of your control, but a kid doesn't know a tree as a religious symbol unles it is taught to them. They don't know about most things until it is taught to them, and they don't know propoer ways to deal with things generally, unless taught.

 

[yakbladder]

Kids are fragile. Kids who come from households that don't celebrate what the majority celbrates are particularly fragile as most kids will want to fit in rather than stick out.

I get being pissed off, but children are unpredictable. You assume the parents are being petty, but until you are in their householdand know what issues they are dealing with, it is very hard to understand what somke of them are going through.

Same issue with needy and special ed kids. How much does the school bend over to accomodate those kids needs and feeling vs. acting more towards appeasing the masses.

I too hope you don't raise a fragile child (sometimes out of your control) . . . I hope if you do have a fragile child, that other parent don't take the fuck that kid attitude, because it is tough enough for adults to be in the minority, for some kids . . . it could change them for life.

I think part of the problem is that a tree doesn't seem to represent, except to non-Christians, a symbol of Christianity. And even then it is a minority of the minority point of view. I understand that kids want to "fit in" but more than that they need to feel confident enough to go it alone once in awhile. I hardly think that seeing a tree on display constitutes pushing religion down their throats as some have suggested. Now if they had a Mass at school, or said something over the loud speaker, or distributed pamphlets or put up a cross or what have you, then I'd easily be willing to compromise. This is just a stretch, IMO, and if you stretch for every single person who has a complaint pretty soon you have nothing. That being said, there is no objective way to draw a line and it's important that we discuss these matters but come to logical conclusions.

 

[RR7]

That's my issue is stretching it until you have nothing. Like with the birthday celebrations. Or holiday celebrations in general. Or team mascots. Why is Fighting Irish acceptable? I wish I was Irish, just to be an obnoxious ass, I would sue the school to make them change their name. If inidians can get rid of Braves or Warriors as mascots, then I think Fighting Irish is just as offensive, adn should be banned. Let's just have everyone go by colors, or just the name of their city or school. Eliminate everything. S omehow, that's better for kids.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I think part of the problem is that a tree doesn't seem to represent, except to non-Christians, a symbol of Christianity. And even then it is a minority of the minority point of view. I understand that kids want to "fit in" but more than that they need to feel confident enough to go it alone once in awhile. I hardly think that seeing a tree on display constitutes pushing religion down their throats as some have suggested. Now if they had a Mass at school, or said something over the loud speaker, or distributed pamphlets or put up a cross or what have you, then I'd easily be willing to compromise. This is just a stretch, IMO, and if you stretch for every single person who has a complaint pretty soon you have nothing. That being said, there is no objective way to draw a line and it's important that we discuss these matters but come to logical conclusions.

And in this case the principal agrees with you (I'm sure after a lot of thought) and has put the tree back.

I should say my thought relates to schools because children are invovled. If no one gets hurt by taking the tree down and some kids are very upest with the tree . . . I would have left it down.

I see schools, teachers and the like as role models for the kids and I think showing concern and respect of others is a better leasson for the kids than teaching the "Fragile" kids to suck it up and deal with it . . . but I see both sides.

 

[MrJayremmie]

That is what I was saying... the Easter bunny, Easter eggs, Santa, Christmas lights, and any Christmas (red and green) decorations better be no where to be found in that school (or any school that bans Christmas trees).

I should say my thought relates to schools because children are invovled. If no one gets hurt by taking the tree down and some kids are very upest with the tree . . . I would have left it down

I see what you're saying, but from what i'm getting, no kids were upset/offended, it was the parents who said it was religious/forcing religion on their kids/indoctrinating the kids was it not? It is hard for me to imagine a child being offended by a decorated Christmas tree. Maybe that is just me.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

That is what I was saying... the Easter bunny, Easter eggs, Santa, Christmas lights, and any Christmas (red and green) decorations better be no where to be found in that school (or any school that bans Christmas trees).


I see what you're saying, but from what i'm getting, no kids were upset/offended, it was the parents who said it was religious/forcing religion on their kids/indoctrinating the kids was it not? It is hard for me to imagine a child being offended by a decorated Christmas tree. Maybe that is just me.

Well I'll start by saying most on the board and the school agrees with you so I'm not saying my view is the correct or popular view. But to me Christmas can be distingushed from the other holidays because some can rationally connect Christmas to religion. As much as some say christmas has nothing to do with religion in thier mind, hopefully they at least acknowledge that Christmas can be related to religon for others. So I think there is a difference between christmas and birthdays or presidents day or whatever.

This may just be a parent issue . . . but I have seen otherwise mild manner parents really voice their opinion and take on a strong position when they believe their childeren are being effected negatively (avoid youth soccer) . . . and who are we to judge how parents decide to raise their kids. These parents are battling for the betterment of their children . . . whether they are right or wrong, I believe they do this because they believe it is best for their children. They may lose this battle, but I don't think we are in any position to tell these parents that their concerns are invalid when it comes to their own children.

Unfortunately, the school has to make a decisin not just based on those children (and their parents concerns) but based on all the children and parents of the school (and politics). .. and in this case, either decison is going to leave a group of people unhappy. Best to go with the majority.

 

[MrJayremmie]

Well I'll start by saying most on the board and the school agrees with you so I'm not saying my view is the correct or popular view. But to me Christmas can be distingushed from the other holidays because some can rationally connect Christmas to religion. As much as some say christmas has nothing to do with religion in thier mind, hopefully they at least acknowledge that Christmas can be related to religon for others. So I think there is a difference between christmas and birthdays or presidents day or whatever.

I understand what you mean. But Easter is in the same boat as Christmas, maybe even more so, isn't it? So then egg hunts, and the Easter bunny should be banned. I also absolutely agree that Christmas can be viewed as a religious/Christian holiday. I guess i'm trying to argue more about the tree and less about the holiday. Because I believe the tree in itself means nothing of the sort, just like chocolate easter eggs, Santa, presents, and so on don't have any religious implications.

Also, I was watching the news and they showed the school, in the place where the tree is I believe they have a table with presents, lights, and Christmas decorations (before they put the tree back up). That made me chuckle.

I also understand what you are saying in the 2nd paragraph. I do agree with that.

 

[Natebishop3]

Can we have the S2 Festivus "Airing of Grievances"?

Feats of strength!

Some people completely misinterpreted the meaning of "separation of church and state."