Let us readdress this issue shall we? Nate McDillon :fail:

[BGrantFan]

Re: l:

jlprk stated that KP... "will never hire a former GM as Coach to become a possible rival. It would have to come from above him."

McHale is a big name and we are discussing him potentially being the next Blazer coach. We both like that idea but we disagree about KP somehow being threatened by him

STOMP

I know that it is jlprk's take. That said, what gives either of you the idea that McHale would be an improvement on Nate? I find that a crapshoot, at best. McHale was constantly berated by Larry Bird for not practicing hard enough, and for being basically lazy. I sure wouldn't stake my GM job on bringing that slug into Portland after letting McMillan go.

 

[STOMP]

Re: l:

I know that it is jlprk's take. That said, what gives either of you the idea that McHale would be an improvement on Nate? I find that a crapshoot, at best. McHale was constantly berated by Larry Bird for not practicing hard enough, and for being basically lazy. I sure wouldn't stake my GM job on bringing that slug into Portland after letting McMillan go.

Unlike a lot of posters here, I don't pretend to know much about whats what with coaches. Most of their work happens in practice and probably a good portion of the reasoning for game time decisions is outside of my scope. For the most part I cross my fingers that the GM backs the right guy for the right reasons as they're in prime position to observe/judge them.

That said, I'll direct you to my earlier thoughts on McHale (post #68 in this thread) on why I'd consider him. If he really has the flaws that you suggest (which a good GM would know about) then of course he won't get the job.

STOMP

 

[OddEnormous]

Didn't he win a title for Seattle?

Who Nate?




OK fine, Don Nelson has won 47,001 games... Who gives a fuck?

 

[jlprk]

I have to leave so here goes. Stomp said, am I one of those who said Pritchard wouldn't make a big trade of veterans, since he never has. Because look at the Camby trade. I answered that that doesn't meet the definition of a big trade unless we re-sign Camby, because otherwise we just traded expirings for 2 months of play. So he answers that I'm dancing around the question. Nope, I answered it straightforward. And the straw man argument of McHale won't be hired by anyone to be a GM--I never said he would. I advocated him as a Coach.

Mook, Camby didn't get us into the playoffs. We are way ahead of Memphis and so would have gotten in without him.

I'm not saying the Camby trade was bad--I'm saying that if we only get him for 2 months, and if it doesn't cause us to progress farther than we would have (to the 2nd round), then 5 or 10 years from now, no one will list it as a consequential trade. Stomp challenged me on a "big" trade, not a "temporarily good" trade. If we keep him and he stays healthy, or if he gets us into the 2nd round, then it was big. Otherwise, it temporarily made us feel better.

 

[STOMP]

I have to leave so here goes. Stomp ASKED am I one of those who said Pritchard wouldn't make a big trade of veterans, since he never has. Because look at the Camby trade. I answered that that doesn't meet MY CONTORTED definition of a big trade unless we re-sign Camby, because otherwise we just traded expirings for 2 months of play. So he answers that I'm dancing around the question. Nope, I answered it straightforward.

fixes in bold

Most everyone sees the Camby trade as a big one except a certain someone squirming for an out having been proved wrong. In fact you just stated that they gave up "2 of their top 7" rotation players to get him so big time players were involved by your own assessment. They have his Bird rights. In all likelyhood they will resign him because (with Joel down) they have a need for another quality Big and the means to retain him. Regardless, it was a big move where KP gave up some of his vets who he was purportedly too close to that has paid off in spades... winning at an 80% clip is no joke.

And the straw man argument of McHale won't be hired by anyone to be a GM--I never said he would. I advocated him as a Coach.

speaking of strawman argument you're not even close to addressing my counter to your threatened nonsense on McHale. Why in the world would the GM be threatened by someone who would only be the coach?

here's a few of the many ironic posts from you prior to the Camby move bitching about KP's lack of trades...

excuse for not clearing out the deadwood
It's best for GMs to sit on their fannies and never make trades.
We've heard "next year" ever since Whitsitt quit almost 7 years ago. That's the last time we heard about "this year."
we undervalue experience
Pritchard's cowardice holds us back.

thats just a sampling from a few weeks of your bitchings about KP before the Camby deal. There was no mention of contractual status but there was plenty of emphasis on winning now. Since then you've made umpteen mentions of KP needing PA's 3M to make whatever deals he does execute possible despite this not being the case in the Camby deal and several others. You got what you wanted (a big trade) and the club has been killing it since yet you're still complaining... what conclusion is the reader to draw?

STOMP

 

[Cake]

I don't see how anybody can watch this team play, and not acknowledge that Roy, LMA, Rudy, and Blake all seriously regressed this season.

Blame injuries? Sure....just remember that injuries hit every team, every season.

Roy regressed? Maybe...but by how much? His stats look nearly identical to last season's stats. Could be that he simply had a great season last year and a good season this year. Is that 'regressing'? I don't think so. Is it the fault of the coach? No.

Aldridge is shooting better and rebounding better. Basically the same in all other categories. How is that regressing?

Rudy has sucked this year. I'm guessing it's because he has sand in his pussy. How is that the fault of the coaching staff though?

Blake is no longer with the team and wasn't very good to begin with. So what?

It seems like a clear-cut case of people having higher expectations dashed by various bad things happening to this team. So people start blaming the coaches. I think McMillan is a fine coach and it's entirely possible that we could be a whole lot worse off if he wasn't able to circle the wagons as well as he has.

And teams all have injuries. But the vast majority don't have anywhere near this many.

 

[jlprk]

Why in the world would the GM be threatened by someone who would only be the coach?

Obvious to most, it's because having an experienced GM as Coach would make it much easier for Pritchard's bosses to crack down on him. Instead of going through a year of a replacement GM learning the organization, scouting system, and draft secrets, an experienced GM who already knows the Blazer organization would be permanently available in the wings. This would give courage to Pritchard's opponents in the bureaucracy. McHale wasn't a great GM, but he could function in the role temporarily until somone permanent got hired, so this would be a threat to Pritchard, so he would not hire McHale as Coach.

 

[jlprk]

here's a few of the many ironic posts from you prior to the Camby move bitching about KP's lack of trades...

excuse for not clearing out the deadwood
It's best for GMs to sit on their fannies and never make trades.
We've heard "next year" ever since Whitsitt quit almost 7 years ago. That's the last time we heard about "this year."
we undervalue experience
Pritchard's cowardice holds us back.

thats just a sampling from a few weeks of your bitchings about KP before the Camby deal.

I guess all those underlines are to prove to me that I post against Pritchard a lot. You didn't need to convince me. Just ask if you're not sure, and I would have told you that. Even more than you, I already know what I think of Pritchard. Thanks for keeping me informed of my own opinions, and next time I'm not sure what I've posted in the past, I'll ask you.

Since you enjoy researching my post history, I'm starting to think of fun projects for you: Find where I said Pritchard will never make a "big" trade. What I remember saying before Camby is that Pritchard had never traded for a player who had been a regular starter for another team. I did not predict this would never happen. I said that he needed to start doing this for him to be considered a rounded GM who can do more than just 1) be a scout and 2) trade experienced players along with Paul Allen's money to get draft picks.

Now he has gotten an experienced starter, by taking two shortcuts. So he proved himself partway. Now for the next step, finally, after 2-3 years of Pritchard having decided our trades. How about finally trading to get a starter who is 1) normal-aged, not on his death bed, with family refusing to leave his former city, and 2) not an overpaid expiring contract being dumped by the other team, which very few owners other than the generous Paul Allen would take on. How about actually making a full-fledged trade instead of trading youth for old age, accepting the other team's elderly throw-off, and not having to use Paul Allen's money to make the trade look in Pritchard's favor as long as the money's not mentioned?

When I see Pritchard making at least a couple of regular, normal trades per year, then I'll respect him as a full-fledged GM, instead of a clean-faced junior version who attracts the Ovaltine kids at the Oregonian. Until he can do all facets of his job, I will argue against the worship he gets from those whose minds always follow the direction of the media. I don't think he's terrible, but I also don't think he's above average. I think we should be like most teams and see our Coach as the leader, with the GM seldom-seen and making deals out of the limelight. For other teams, if they win or lose, the Coach and players are held responsible. Here, it's if we win, praise be to Pritchard's past trades, and if we lose, it can't be him or his players, so it must be McMillan's fault. Why must a stage-hogging GM be the center of the universe here?

 

[jlprk]

And why does Pritchard get adored for bringing in Camby, who was on the take for money, cars, jewelry, and prostitutes during college from 3 agents competing to represent him, causing his college to forfeit 38 wins, plus $151,000 of Final Four revenue, with its Final Four appearance erased from history, and 2 of the agents going to jail because Camby saved himself by testifying against them at trial? ...Because the Oregonian hates Bob Whitsitt and loves Kevin Pritchard.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1010875/1/index.htm

 

[jlprk]

But don't let any of that dissuade you, Stomp. If you have any problems with my posts, don't be shy, be sure to tell me about it.

 

[oldmangrouch]

And why does Pritchard get adored for bringing in Camby, who was on the take for money, cars, jewelry, and prostitutes during college from 3 agents competing to represent him, causing his college to forfeit 38 wins, plus $151,000 of Final Four revenue, with its Final Four appearance erased from history, and 2 of the agents going to jail because Camby saved himself by testifying against them at trial? ...Because the Oregonian hates Bob Whitsitt and loves Kevin Pritchard.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1010875/1/index.htm

On this point, I 100% agree with you.

The local media would like people to believe that TraderBob never did anything right, that every player he acquired was a scumbag, etc, etc.

For a couple of years there, the Blazers were the second best team in the league. They had the bad luck to face the best team in the WCF. The hatred directed at him by the media was absurd.

 

[jlprk]

You are halfway to heavenly enlightenment, grasshopper. One who questions who the Oregonian opposes in excess, will probably question who the Oregonian favors in excess. Thus sayeth Shao-Lin or Zarathrusta or someone.

 

[RoyToy]

On this point, I 100% agree with you.

The local media would like people to believe that TraderBob never did anything right, that every player he acquired was a scumbag, etc, etc.

For a couple of years there, the Blazers were the second best team in the league. They had the bad luck to face the best team in the WCF. The hatred directed at him by the media was absurd.

Well maybe he shouldn't have traded Jermaine O'Neal for Dale Davis and Brian Grant for Shawn Kemp.

When you trade a young player for an experienced veteran, it's usually because you're going for it all now and don't want to wait for that young player to develop. The only problem was Jermaine O'Neal was already putting up better numbers than Dale Davis that very next season. When it works out like that you pretty much just got hosed in a trade.

Won't even bring up Shawn Kemp...lolololol

 

[BGrantFan]

On this point, I 100% agree with you.

The local media would like people to believe that TraderBob never did anything right, that every player he acquired was a scumbag, etc, etc.

For a couple of years there, the Blazers were the second best team in the league. They had the bad luck to face the best team in the WCF. The hatred directed at him by the media was absurd.

That is not true at all. For one year, the Blazers were the second-best team in the NBA, with by far the highest payroll. The other year in the WCF was the strike year, which was obviously a crapshoot since the #8 seed Knicks made the NBA Finals against the Spurs. That was the year of back-to-back-to-backs in the regular season, for those who remember. The year after the 2000 WCF choke, the Blazers were swept in the first round, and we were in cap purgatory.

You people crack me up!

 

[STOMP]

Obvious to most, it's because having an experienced GM as Coach would make it much easier for Pritchard's bosses to crack down on him. Instead of going through a year of a replacement GM learning the organization, scouting system, and draft secrets, an experienced GM who already knows the Blazer organization would be permanently available in the wings. This would give courage to Pritchard's opponents in the bureaucracy. McHale wasn't a great GM, but he could function in the role temporarily until somone permanent got hired, so this would be a threat to Pritchard, so he would not hire McHale as Coach.

you think you speak for the masses???

"Wasn't a great GM" is what his son may say at his funeral. McHale is regarded as a failure as a GM by every Wolves and general NBA board I've ever checked in on. In 12 seasons, he advanced past the first round once. Some threat... maybe some of the masses here who want him calling the shots in Blazerland will speak up

you're on record umpteen times bashing Pritchard. You're also on record wanting exactly the sort of move he just made. Having made it you're still bashing. Time to change out your broken record because... it's broken

I guess all those underlines are to prove to me that I post against Pritchard a lot. You didn't need to convince me. Just ask if you're not sure, and I would have told you that. Even more than you, I already know what I think of Pritchard. Thanks for keeping me informed of my own opinions, and next time I'm not sure what I've posted in the past, I'll ask you.

Since you enjoy researching my post history, blah blah blah...

it really wasn't you that I was addressing posting your blatant contradictions, it was others who might be reading this thread. I'd read your opinions prior to the trade when you posted them which is why this struck me as a worthy small task. It took just a few minutes to post the links as they only spanned 3 weeks prior to the Camby deal. I'm sure there is plenty more if someone actually felt digging through your stuff was worthwhile... of course thats always been option that no one seems to care to do.

so sorry that I couldn't give a shit about the other tasks

STOMP

 

[BGrantFan]

you think you speak for the masses???

"Wasn't a great GM" is what his son may say at his funeral. McHale is regarded as a failure as a GM by every Wolves and general NBA board I've ever checked in on. In 12 seasons, he advanced past the first round once. Some threat... I'd love some of the masses here who want him calling the shots in Blazerland to speak up

you're on record umpteen times bashing Pritchard. You're also on record wanting exactly the sort of move he just made. Having made it you're still bashing KP. Time to change out your broken record because... it's clearly broken

it really wasn't you that I was addressing posting your blatant contradictions, it was others who might be reading this thread. I'd read your opinions prior to the trade when you posted them which is why this struck me as a worthy small task. It took just a few minutes to post the links as they only spanned 3 weeks prior to the Camby deal. I'm sure there is plenty more if someone actually felt digging through your stuff was worthwhile... of course thats always been option that no one seems to care to do.

so sorry that I couldn't give a shit about the other tasks you tried to assign me

STOMP

Brutal, ruthless, but spot-on. jlprk just got clowned.

 

[PHXBlazer1]

Lol. All I've learned from this thread is that some of you care way more about proving your "argument", while disproving your opponent's "argument", than anything related to the Blazers. Carry on ladies.

 

[jlprk]

I was thinking something similar. I see a lot of energy expended that doesn't really strike down anything I said. It doesn't matter that McHale was a lousy GM. If he were Coach, he would still be a threat to Pritchard as a temporary replacement. Duh. This is so obvious that yes, I speak for the masses. As for getting clowned, how was I clowned? Despite smoke and fury, I see no worthy arguments against the obvious, just attempted ridicule and clowning.

 

[BGrantFan]

I was thinking something similar. I see a lot of energy expended that doesn't really strike down anything I said. It doesn't matter that McHale was a lousy GM. If he were Coach, he would still be a threat to Pritchard as a temporary replacement. Duh. This is so obvious that yes, I speak for the masses. As for getting clowned, how was I clowned? Despite smoke and fury, I see no worthy arguments against the obvious, just attempted ridicule and clowning.

You're a cartoon character. I appreciate this trait.

 

[oldmangrouch]

That is not true at all. For one year, the Blazers were the second-best team in the NBA, with by far the highest payroll. The other year in the WCF was the strike year, which was obviously a crapshoot since the #8 seed Knicks made the NBA Finals against the Spurs. That was the year of back-to-back-to-backs in the regular season, for those who remember. The year after the 2000 WCF choke, the Blazers were swept in the first round, and we were in cap purgatory.

You people crack me up!

I have to disagree. The 99 team was darn good.

 

[BGrantFan]

I have to disagree. The 99 team was darn good.

They were good, but I don't consider the strike season much more than an asterisk.

 

[OddEnormous]

They were good, but I don't consider the strike season much more than an asterisk.

Originally Posted by OddEnormous
21 of the 80 posts are mine.

That you've actually posted that many times in this thread is hilarious!

29 posts in this thread for you now. RUN FOREST RUN!!!

 

[oldmangrouch]

Well maybe he shouldn't have traded Jermaine O'Neal for Dale Davis and Brian Grant for Shawn Kemp.

When you trade a young player for an experienced veteran, it's usually because you're going for it all now and don't want to wait for that young player to develop. The only problem was Jermaine O'Neal was already putting up better numbers than Dale Davis that very next season. When it works out like that you pretty much just got hosed in a trade.

Won't even bring up Shawn Kemp...lolololol

The O'Neal/Davis trade was at least partly a function of Jermaine and Dunleavy not getting along. It may well be that Jermaine, like Zach, needed a change of scenery to mature and reach his potential.

As for Grant/Kemp.....wanting Kemp was a horrible decision, but from everything that was said at the time, Grant wanted out of Portland. TBob freaked at the notion of losing him for nothing, and so he went with the Kemp S&T. It would have been better to just let him walk.

That one really bad move doesn't define his entire tenure anymore than KP's mistaken pursuit of Hedo defines the job he has done.

 

[BGrantFan]

29 posts in this thread for you now. RUN FOREST RUN!!!

Thanks for the update. Try to add something relevant the next time you post. I do appreciate being able to understand your post this time, however.

 

[KingSpeed]

The 1999 Blazers were a great team that simply couldn't beat the Spurs. We had a great series against Utah though.

 

[OddEnormous]

Try to add something relevant the next time you post.

Hi Dan.

 

[BGrantFan]

The O'Neal/Davis trade was at least partly a function of Jermaine and Dunleavy not getting along. It may well be that Jermaine, like Zach, needed a change of scenery to mature and reach his potential.

As for Grant/Kemp.....wanting Kemp was a horrible decision, but from everything that was said at the time, Grant wanted out of Portland. TBob freaked at the notion of losing him for nothing, and so he went with the Kemp S&T. It would have been better to just let him walk.

That one really bad move doesn't define his entire tenure anymore than KP's mistaken pursuit of Hedo defines the job he has done.

Come on now. Both of those trades were shitty, and both impacted the team in a negative manner. Plus, if O'Neal was traded to placate Dunleavy, then that's an extra mark against Whitsitt for choosing a journeyman coach over a budding All-Star.

 

[BGrantFan]

Hi Dan.

Hi Dan. When will you let your true colors come out in the OT forum?

 

[KingSpeed]

Come on now. Both of those trades were shitty, and both impacted the team in a negative manner. Plus, if O'Neal was traded to placate Dunleavy, then that's an extra mark against Whitsitt for choosing a journeyman coach over a budding All-Star.

I don't understand why people regret the O'Neal trade so much. He never took the Pacers anywhere.

 

[BGrantFan]

I don't understand why people regret the O'Neal trade so much. He never took the Pacers anywhere.

I don't regret it, but Dale Davis was a fucking steaming pile of shit, and we still made the playoffs. I think O'Neal would have made a difference teamed with Zach in the early 00s.