Lets get down to brass knuckles: Who sucks?

[GMJ]

Hey Nets fans. So we've had plenty of discussion on who we like in the draft, but what about the busts? It's hard for me to agree that the draft is mostly a crapshoot (didn't we have a thread on that, too?

) and yet at the same time get on the bandwagon on this many prospects. Busts are in every draft, so who are the guys you don't think will make it?

I'll start off with:

DeAndre Jordan: Duh. You can't teach height, sure, but is it really worth teaching the game of basketball? Who cares if he's tall, Manute Bol was tall. You wouldn't take a random 7'0" off the street to start a franchise around, and I would hope one wouldn't take a guy who couldn't even start in the NCAA. This guy isn't a NBA prospect, he's still a college prospect.

Serge Ibaka: Another athlete who has "potential" (oh that's awesome!) but lacks advanced basketball skills and knowledge to utilize his physical skills. He's this year's Sear Sene (and on a similar note, if the Sonics draft this guy they are out of excuses).

Nicholas Batum: I can't believe I'm saying this, because I really liked this guy most of the year. He's been a phenomenal offensive player; showing a good jumper and complimentary athleticism, but I'm beginning to understand why this guy is slipping. What do you have if you've got a great all around offensive player who lacks the mental ability to dominate superior players like he did his former peers? Antoine Wright; although from what I've read Batum doesn't play defense.

Brandon Rush: Not really a bust per se, but I could see his ACL limiting the length of his career.

It's tough to look at a mock draft and see that a bunch of these guys will just be mediocre NBA players, but what do you all think?

 

[Dumpy]

I think you suck.

 

[GMJ]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jun 14 2008, 08:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think you suck.</div>

Let me guess, Batum fan?

 

[Denny Crane]

The obvious answer is:
YOU
and
you and you and you and...

 

[GMJ]

LOL damn it I am not in the NBA draft!

 

[#1_War_Poet_ForLife]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jun 14 2008, 08:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think you suck.</div>
I could fix him, but I won't.

 

[GMJ]

You are all cowards.

or really think that everyone is going to be awesome.

sm...

 

[cpawfan]

Wait, so this isn't a thread about the Nets Front Office?

 

[User01]

I agree with Dumpy.

BUT for an actual on topic post (OMG) I'll say Westbrook, Arthur, Rose, McGee, Jordan may not be necessarily busts, but worse than expected.

 

[soul driver]

I agree Jigga

 

[ghoti]

Brass tacks?

 

[GMJ]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jun 14 2008, 09:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Brass tacks?</div>

oops. Changing thread title in 3, 2, 1...

Hey Vuchie01, what don't you like about those players?

 

[User01]

well, Rose's play in the final four was pretty awesome, but i think its caused his stock to rise way too much. I don't see what makes him a much better prospect than, say, Conley was last year.

Westbrook, as I mentioned in the other thread, I don't think he will really be anything special on offense.

Jordan and McGee are major projects, and probably won't do anything good at all.

Arthur doesn't seem to be anything special to me, at best a roleplayer off the bench.

 

[ghoti]

I think Brook Lopez is a role player at best.

I wouldn't even be surprised if his brother has a better career due to the ridiculous expectations people have of Brook.

I saw this guy play more than any other player in this draft (thanks to FOX Sports and the wonders of 10:30 starts), and I didn't see much evidence he will be worth a lottery pick in the NBA.

 

[Dumpy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Jun 14 2008, 09:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jun 14 2008, 09:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Brass tacks?</div>

oops. Changing thread title in 3, 2, 1...


</div>

I thought only Peggy could do that.

 

[GMJ]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jun 14 2008, 10:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Jun 14 2008, 09:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jun 14 2008, 09:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Brass tacks?</div>

oops. Changing thread title in 3, 2, 1...


</div>

I thought only Peggy could do that.
</div>

Be careful as not to confuse "Peggy can do this" with "Peggy likes to do this"

Dumpy, is there anyone you particularly don't like in this draft?

 

[zєяσ]

Worst thread title ever.

 

[GMJ]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Jun 15 2008, 03:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Worst thread title ever.</div>

...L, who do you not like in this draft?

 

[zєяσ]

What draft?

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jun 14 2008, 10:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Jun 14 2008, 09:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jun 14 2008, 09:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Brass tacks?</div>

oops. Changing thread title in 3, 2, 1...


</div>

I thought only Peggy could do that.
</div>

I'm the only one cool enough to do that.

Wow, so how about I had a whole shit load typed up, and then I go to backspace something, and the page goes back...thereby deleting everything? Oh well, tomorrow

 

[SportsTicker]

There are something like 17 teenagers --aged 18 or 19 on Draft Night-- likely to be taken in the first round. Maybe five of them have NBA-ready bodies. So here you have a pool of physically and most likely emotionally immature players. How can there not be five disasters in that group.

Here's a way to tell who is going to be a bust:

--fast rising big men who did nothing in college or overseas, yet are "blessed with tremendous upside".

--"the next Dirk Nowitzki", big foreign white guys who can shoot a little.

--anyone referred to as "Baby Shaq", particularly if they're African.

--undersized combo guards who say they can really "play a little point" if they have to.

--skinny slashers without reliable jump shots..."all they need is better mechanics".

 

[Voodoo Child]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jun 15 2008, 05:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>There are something like 17 teenagers --aged 18 or 19 on Draft Night-- likely to be taken in the first round. Maybe five of them have NBA-ready bodies. So here you have a pool of physically and most likely emotionally immature players. How can there not be five disasters in that group.

Here's a way to tell who is going to be a bust:

--fast rising big men who did nothing in college or overseas, yet are "blessed with tremendous upside".

--"the next Dirk Nowitzki", big foreign white guys who can shoot a little.

--anyone referred to as "Baby Shaq", particularly if they're African.

--undersized combo guards who say they can really "play a little point" if they have to.

--skinny slashers without reliable jump shots..."all they need is better mechanics".</div>

Those are generally good rules to live by, but the climate of basketball really changes every year. Nothing has shown me that more than following the draft on an intense level since 2000'ish (before then I was just an NCAA/NBA fan that never tried to connect the dots). I've noticed a lot of things come into and go out of fashion based on how the league's top teams are winning ball games, how other players in draft molds have done in the past years, etc. One interesting that I've been talking about for a while, that Chad Ford recently wrote an article on, is how it evolved from being an advantage to be a foreign player to being a dissadvantage. Not only are fans skeptical because of the Milicic's and Tskitishvili's of the world, but they're also worried that players won't sign with their teams even if they are drafted, thanks to the growing global market for basketball. So based on that, I'd take the whole "the next Dirk Nowitzki" part out of your post, because that's not really a factor anymore, and if anything, it'll hurt a guy. The whole combo guard thing has been sort of dissproved with guys like Dwyane Wade, Gilbert Arenas, and Ben Gordon too. Even though the league seems to be getting taller and taller out on the wing with 6'9" players like LeBron playing the two guard, it's also strangely enough become easier for the tweener combo guards to have success on the next level, which is why I'm not writing off Eric Gordon.

With that said, outside of Jordan, Speights, and McGee, I don't have any significant problems with any of the current draft prospects being projected where they are. I'd say that this year's draft has more accurate projections of talent than any in recent memory.

 

[Netted]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jun 15 2008, 06:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Here's a way to tell who is going to be a bust:

--fast rising big men who did nothing in college or overseas, yet are "blessed with tremendous upside".</div>
These are better than the big men that have been high on the mock drafts because they are "blessed with tremendous upside"?

 

[reganomics813]

I know there is talk about that this is a deep draft but i'm not really sure about that. I think that notion is based off of teams making numerous bad picks where other teams get a nice selection of leftovers instead of being 1.5 rounds deep worth of actual talent.

I know we're picking at 10 but I really don't see how any player available are that much, if any, better than guys like Granger, Sean, Boone, etc we've had our choice of/picked later in other drafts.

We need kids with hustle, heart, smarts, and defense. I know we're going BPA but I think everyone is such a crap shoot that we can take the BPA and watch his value plummet just as easily as watch him succeed. To me, this is one of those drafts where you find a kid you like and you pick him and not worry about what other guys do on other teams or who the mocks say you should take. I don't think the talent disparity is all that great that doing that would be a crippling move.

 

[Kid Chocolate]

Joe Alexander - I'm just weary on a guy who started as a 3, then wowed everyone at the 4, and will have to go back to the 3 in the pros. WOW he has great athleticism. That means jacksh*t if you can't play ball.

Deandre Jordan - I don't think anyone likes this guy or wants their team to take him.

Marreese Speights - Big man who has the body, but looks like he doesn't care and would rather take jumpshots outside the paint. I want no part of that.

Kosta Koufos - SO UGLY.

Chase Budinger - White wing player. Bad Defense. 'Nuff said.

Brook Lopez - His soft post game is not gonna be able to carry him in the pros, and he seems like a big nerd.

 

[Netted]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (reganomics813 @ Jun 15 2008, 11:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>To me, this is one of those drafts where you find a kid you like and you pick him and not worry about what other guys do on other teams or who the mocks say you should take. I don't think the talent disparity is all that great that doing that would be a crippling move.</div>
I totally agree with this statement. I think the players projected to go 9 through around 27 are not that far apart on talent and some of the guys predicted to go 28 through about 35 could be rotation guys.

The thing to worry about is overvaluing potential and size over actual talent.

 

[pegs]

Deandre Jordan - He isn't that good. Being taken based on potential and his measurements. He's buttcrack.

Anthony Randolph - pwned by Donte Greene. Not that good. Overrated.

Joe Alexander - He's one of those guys who's a prospect based on pure athleticism, and not much else. If I wanted that, wouldn't I just go out and sign James White? Yeah, screw em.

Kevin Love - Fat white kid. Bleh. Reminds me of Donte Greene in the fact that he didn't use college as a learning experience, and didn't really take it seriously that much at all. Could've lost weight, but opted to be fat. Could've learned how to play some damn defense, but opted to be fat.

Brook Lopez - supposedly a top big man prospect, but can't even shoot near 50% IN COLLEGE. Pass.

Kosta Koufos - Softer than a twinkie. Although, I like twinkies.

People I think are underrated: DJ White, DJ Augustin, CDR, Hibbert, Chalmers

 

[GMJ]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Jun 15 2008, 01:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Chase Budinger - White wing player. Bad Defense. 'Nuff said.</div>

...Danilo Gallinari?

 

[#1_War_Poet_ForLife]

He's not white. He's mediterranean.

 

[danxcr]

ya i say lets trade all our picks for superstar