Politics Let's say Biden is president...

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hoojacks said:
I kinda think Covid showed us that rapid change is in fact possible.
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Possible, sure. Painless, far from.

30 years is 20 years too slow. So, if we're not talking about preventing a catastrophe, then what are we talking about? Living with it? What's your plan? I was going to buy some cheap property in Southern Oregon... until... uh yeah,
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Everything I have seen suggests that even 30 is hard to do without breaking the entire plant's way of life radically.
 
Orion Bailey said:
see thats where i disagree. 30 million lost jobs but how many lost homes because of losing jobs? Did the bail outs work to provide subsidies for the moment? Cause 30 million homeless would be absolutely tragic.
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I dont understand what you disagree with in my post, exactly. It just sounds like you're saying there's worse things than losing health care. Sure. But thats not disagreeing. Is losing your home worse than losing health care? Sure. So do we not worry about lost health care because those people held onto their houses?
 
RR7 said:
I dont understand what you disagree with in my post, exactly. It just sounds like you're saying there's worse things than losing health care. Sure. But thats not disagreeing. Is losing your home worse than losing health care? Sure. So do we not worry about lost health care because those people held onto their houses?
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no. Health care has not to do with it. Different topic. You Mentioned jobless.
Just because i dont agree with the current health care system being tied to peoples employers doesnt mean i think it should just be free for all. Ive stated many times why i dont think it should be free for all.
 
Orion Bailey said:
no. Health care has not to do with it. Different topic. You Mentioned jobless.
Just because i dont agree with the current health care system being tied to peoples employers doesnt mean i think it should just be free for all. Ive stated many times why i dont think it should be free for all.
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Has nothing to do with it? I said there's a problem with Healthcare being tied to employment. You disagreed because people kept their houses? I don't see the connection.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
Socialism in and of itself doesn't work. Capitalism unbridled or crony capitalism also do not work. There needs to be a balance of the two for things to actually work. Even in the 'best' of run democratic socialist countries, they have quite a few failures and have gone towards capitalism as recognition of necessary commerce, and capitalistic opportunity is needed for a thriving economy that can also allow the government systems to continue to run well. People complain about capitalism, in the US but the complaint is really misguided, what we have in the US is crony capitalism. Which is kind of the worst of both worlds when it comes to big government vs big businesses.
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This is pretty much what I was thinking. The mix and proper balance between socialism and free market democracy has proven quite effective in the modern world. Of course, culturally and societally, each nation needs to find it's own balance. This is what I meant in my short post that @Orion Bailey quoted.
 
RR7 said:
Has nothing to do with it? I said there's a problem with Healthcare being tied to employment. You disagreed because people kept their houses? I don't see the connection.
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Noooo. I disagreed with the pandemic showing we need socialism.
Socialism covers much more than health care. its stability for all for everything, is it not?

so with that said, i agree with you that its a problem having health care tied to unemployment.
I disagree that it should be free for all just because of the pandemic.

is that clearer?
 
theprunetang said:
This is pretty much what I was thinking. The mix and proper balance between socialism and free market democracy has proven quite effective in the modern world. Of course, culturally and societally, each nation needs to find it's own balance. This is what I meant in my short post that @Orion Bailey quoted.
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i agree with this and actually think we aRe already there for the most part. Yes some things still need fixing, improving, etc.
 
theprunetang said:
This is pretty much what I was thinking. The mix and proper balance between socialism and free market democracy has proven quite effective in the modern world. Of course, culturally and societally, each nation needs to find it's own balance. This is what I meant in my short post that @Orion Bailey quoted.
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It's a hard pill to swallow for someone who (like me kind of) thinks screw the government, I don't want anything to do with it, and would rather the government screwed off most of the time... The truth of the matter is that logically the government does have its place, and government systems at least the ones that 'work' for people is ultimately a good thing. That regulation for individuals and capitalistic means is also important. Now I think that the Constitution, declaration of independence, and what the founding fathers seemed to have in mind was mostly good, even if the US as a whole has never lived up to that, especially so for certain groups, but working towards a government that is striving to live up to some of that which the country says it is founded on I'd say would ultimately be good, and some of it would mean we need to have a serious look as a country at healthcare, education, the justice system, etc. I may not agree with Bernie on many things or BLM, or many of the more vocal groups right now, but forcing the country to have those conversations will hopefully end up putting us in a better place then we have been. Hopefully, at some point as a country, we can get close to living up to what we say the country was founded on.
 
Orion Bailey said:
i agree with this and actually think we aRe already there for the most part. Yes some things still need fixing, improving, etc.
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We have been a mix between the 2 for a long time now. I personally, and many others, believe the balance has shifted too far in one direction. These things happen over time. I believe change is in order for the betterment of our society. Just my opinion.
 
Orion Bailey said:
so what will the plan be to maintain all the social programs when the money taken from the rich runs out in 50-100 years?

Its been tried before and failed.
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Again, I don't think you know what socialism means.

But thats only half my issue.
I think handouts enable laziness for some. yes some tKe it Nd make something of it, but many just take it and then ask for more.


One need look no further than the pandemic to realize people don't want to work hard. They want it given to them. And I'm not for enabling that.
I think that philosophy is the derailment of aNy society.
Instead of going back to work people stayed home and collected fed money because staying on unemployment paid them more.
So when you pay everyone to sit at home, how does the economy grow? How does it even maintain?
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I disagree with this point of view. Modern conservatism is built on a Malthusian lie that humanity is wretched and there isn't enough to go around. It's outdated and immoral thinking.
 
Orion Bailey said:
Noooo. I disagreed with the pandemic showing we need socialism.
Socialism covers much more than health care. its stability for all for everything, is it not?

so with that said, i agree with you that its a problem having health care tied to unemployment.
I disagree that it should be free for all just because of the pandemic.

is that clearer?
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I know it covers more than healthcare. I just said there were aspects that the pandemic showed should be implemented, health care being one.
 
theprunetang said:
We have been a mix between the 2 for a long time now. I personally, and many others, believe the balance has shifted too far in one direction. These things happen over time. I believe change is in order for the betterment of our society. Just my opinion.
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You could be right and we just need a pendulum balance. Seems to me though that extreme changes are required to satisfy many.
 
RR7 said:
I know it covers more than healthcare. I just said there were aspects that the pandemic showed should be implemented, health care being one.
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Fair enough. I just disagree. I think it showed How AmericNs are too into thier freedoms to make common sense a common practice.
Like who cares if you dont think a mask helps. Choice choice of wearing a mask over the chance it might work and saves lives was idiotic.
It wasn't the pandemic it was the idiotic choices that have created such a disaster here.
 
Orion Bailey said:
Fair enough. I just disagree. I think it showed How AmericNs are too into thier freedoms to make common sense a common practice.
Like who cares if you dont think a mask helps. Choice choice of wearing a mask over the chance it might work and saves lives was idiotic.
It wasn't the pandemic it was the idiotic choices that have created such a disaster here.
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It can show both, no? They're not mutually exclusive. And really, don't have anything to do with eachother.
 
Orion Bailey said:
Yes. Draining the swamp has specifics to it.

oh? That isn't what you said?
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Sure it's what I said, or rather, asked. I asked you what the evidence was that 'drain the swamp' was not just an empty slogan.

Question still stands. I assume you'll be eager to answer it, given your stated interest in facts not opinions.

Not liking a bit of your own medicine are we? Because you constantly twist words around.
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Not sure what you are suggesting here - I don't see where you gave me a dose of my 'own medicine'. Your words seem more unintentionally garbled than intentionally twisted.

Funny how in this very post you did what you accuse me of....
lol!.
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You'll have to flesh that out a bit. What did I accuse you of, and what is the example of me doing it? Sorry to be difficult, but I honestly don't know what you are talking about.

barfo
 
RR7 said:
It can show both, no? They're not mutually exclusive. And really, don't have anything to do with eachother.
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Hmm it can show we need to change health care. I still dont think it should be free for all for anything.
Ive said im for certain aspects of universal care. But not for al for just Ny reason. We must maintain a sense of self responsibility with our bodies.
Im not for paying for lazy people to do nothing but eat potato chips and get heart disease.
 
barfo said:
Sure it's what I said, or rather, asked. I asked you what the evidence was that 'drain the swamp' was not just an empty slogan.

Question still stands. I assume you'll be eager to answer it, given your stated interest in facts not opinions.



Not sure what you are suggesting here - I don't see where you gave me a dose of my 'own medicine'. Your words seem more unintentionally garbled than intentionally twisted.



You'll have to flesh that out a bit. What did I accuse you of, and what is the example of me doing it? Sorry to be difficult, but I honestly don't know what you are talking about.

barfo
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i said it had specifics not facts.
Go play spin games with someone else Barfo.

Ill respond when you actually post something that isn't a spin attempt. Until then i just consider your tactics trolling.
 
Orion Bailey said:
Im not for paying for lazy people to do nothing but eat potato chips and get heart disease.
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You already do through normal insurance premiums. We've already been through this. Your harming many because of a few. Very few.
 
RR7 said:
You already do through normal insurance premiums. We've already been through this. Your harming many because of a few. Very few.
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Numbers please?

i dont have an insurance premium fyi.
Many insurance options out there. Ill tKw that over one forced on me.
I also think that there are alot more than a few who do and would take advantage of free health care.
 
You don't have insurance?
Taking advantage of free health care?
 
Orion Bailey said:
i said it had specifics not facts.
Go play spin games with someone else Barfo.

Ill respond when you actually post something that isn't a spin attempt. Until then i just consider your tactics trolling.
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Surrender accepted!

Like I said several posts ago, you got conned into thinking 'drain the swamp' actually meant something. And now after 3.5 years there has been no swamp draining, and a whole mess of swamp filling, and you have no argument to present at all.

barfo
 
hoojacks said:
...what do we do about climate change? What can be done? Are we doomed or is there hope?
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Climate change is here to stay and it's too late to halt it. Even if the entire world went 100% tomorrow, climate change is going to get worse. All we can do at this point is slow it down so it won't get more terrible than we are already facing. Tha habitability of the planet for humans is at stake.
The best choice to deal with it is the Democratic party. Republicans do not even believe in man made climate change while Democrats do believe in that.
 
Lanny said:
Climate change is here to stay and it's too late to halt it. Even if the entire world went 100% tomorrow, climate change is going to get worse. All we can do at this point is slow it down so it won't get more terrible than we are already facing. Tha habitability of the planet for humans is at stake.
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1000% agree

The best choice to deal with it is the Democratic party.
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1000% disagree, as stated. Everything is a choice, nothing is off the table, because we have free will.

Now, if you had said, "The best choice that has a chance of happening above .001%...", then I might agree. At this point we're choosing between evil and stupid, neither of which is equipped to deal with the problem.
 
hoojacks said:
I've been with this community for a long, long time. I guarantee none of the regulars were advocating for socialism. And considering you think Nancy Pelosi of all people is a "borderline socialist," that kinda proves my point. I think you have no idea what socialism is.
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For the record, Nancy Pelosi is a multimillionaire San Francisco high society socialite. She is as far away from socialism as Trump is from the truth.
 
hoojacks said:
1000% agree



1000% disagree, as stated. Everything is a choice, nothing is off the table, because we have free will.

Now, if you had said, "The best choice that has a chance of happening above .001%...", then I might agree. At this point we're choosing between evil and stupid, neither of which is equipped to deal with the problem.
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This is America and in spite of Trump, you're still free to disagree. Of course i think you're all wrong but then I also have the freedom to disagree.
 
Lanny said:
This is America and in spite of Trump, you're still free to disagree. Of course i think you're all wrong but then I also have the freedom to disagree.
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I know it's been a while since I've been here, but, like, S2, are you okay? Yeah man, you have the freedom to disagree. I'm not here to dox you or anything. It's cool. No worries.

I'm curious to hear about why you think the Democrats are actually the best choice to prevent a global climate catastrophe, if you're up for talking it through. I'm just not seeing it at all.
 
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