Letter to the editor (Oregonian): A Veteran Asks: Thanks for What?

[VanillaGorilla]

http://blog.oregonlive.com/myoregon/2010/03/letter_a_veteran_asks_thanks_f.html

I write many commentary pieces critical of warmaking, and sometimes I conclude by stating that I'm a vet who served in the U.S. Special Forces. Invariably, those who respond thank me for my service before trashing my opinion. It's clear that no one cares what that service comprised. It matters not whether I saved a buddy's life or rolled a hand grenade into a hut, killing women and children -- always the knee-jerk "thank you."

Within most of our living history, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan are the nations we've invaded and killed their citizens, and we receive "thanks" for that service. MSNBC's Chris Matthews calls Sen. John McCain a war hero, even though the service he provided was dropping bombs on men, women and children from 20,000 feet. Does Matthews think McCain was defending America from a tiny war-ravaged nation with no planes, ships or missiles capable of threatening us? Does he care?

The point is that we have been trained not to question what those who serve in war were actually doing. Matthews and his ilk don't ask. But the 12,000 American vets who attempt suicide each year because they cannot live with the behavior their service required of them do ask.

The robotic "thank you" from the American citizenry matters naught to the 6,000 vets who actually commit suicide every year because they know their service betrayed their sense of decency, and they experience this final, fatal pain alone -- another betrayal. Do we really not know Vietnam was not about Communist dominoes, nor Iraq about weapons of mass destruction? What insidious rationales represent the true motives for these wars?

If we spoke these reasons loudly and clearly, would we still thank our vets for their service to those unstated goals?

The best worst reason given for these military assaults on the citizens of other nations is that it will make us safer. Dr. Ira Katz, the Veterans Administration's head of mental health, acknowledges that 12,000 vets attempt suicide each year and half of those succeed. Many more return home and live destructive lives impacted by drugs, violence and divorce, imparting pain to families and communities and making clear that the violence incurred "over there" cycles home.

If we sacrifice our children in this uniquely depraved way to make ourselves feel safe, what then is the value of safety? It's difficult to draw a clear, straight line between a simple "thank you for your service" and a young vet driving his motorcycle into a tree.

The light from 300 million candles will illuminate those connective threads. Does anyone hear me?

DON SCOTTEN
Sprague River

 

[BlazersBlood]

When I say "thank you" it's because it's them and not me. I'm glad I haven't had to sacrifice my life or my family's well being for me to fight in a war I don't believe in.

 

[MARIS61]

When I say "thank you" it's because it's them and not me. I'm glad I haven't had to sacrifice my life or my family's well being for me to fight in a war I don't believe in.

Nobody has to fight in a war.

It's a personal choice, and they do it for themselves, for money, for thrills, for lack of having a life... certainly not for me.

My thanks go to dedicated peacebrokers like President Jimmy Carter, Mohammed Ali, and the hundreds of millions of courageous protesters worldwide who dare to stand up to the military-industrial complex.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Nobody has to fight in a war.

It's a personal choice, and they do it for themselves, for money, for thrills, for lack of having a life... certainly not for me.

My thanks go to dedicated peacebrokers like President Jimmy Carter, Mohammed Ali, and the hundreds of millions of courageous protesters worldwide who dare to stand up to the military-industrial complex.

Therefore, the people who died so you can freely spew your communistic rhetoric can just go to hell, eh?

You have a funny way of showing your gratitude.

 

[Eastoff]

Therefore, the people who died so you can freely spew your communistic rhetoric can just go to hell, eh?

You have a funny way of showing your gratitude.

did you read that article?

 

[MARIS61]

Therefore, the people who died so you can freely spew your communistic rhetoric can just go to hell, eh?

You have a funny way of showing your gratitude.

You have a funny idea of what Communism is.

As for gratitude, I'd be grateful if the military would stop mis-representing my views on the world stage. I don't support Israel, or any other country for that matter. I didn't support the invasions of Vietnam, Granada, Beirut, Bosnia, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iraq again, Iran soon...

I can freely spew all the rhetoric I want, with or without people killing complete strangers in faraway underdeveloped lands and creating enemies I've never met and have nothing against.

Always have, always will. It's what I do. I don't owe it to anyone, and no foreign country has ever threatened to impede me in any way.

The ONLY threat to my freedom of speech during my lifetime has come from my own government, and it increases during wartime, so actually anyone supporting war is threatening my freedom of speech rather than defending it.

 

[Eastoff]

You have a funny idea of what Communism is.

As for gratitude, I'd be grateful if the military would stop mis-representing my views on the world stage. I don't support Israel, or any other country for that matter. I didn't support the invasions of Vietnam, Granada, Beirut, Bosnia, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iraq again, Iran soon...

I can freely spew all the rhetoric I want, with or without people killing complete strangers in faraway underdeveloped lands and creating enemies I've never met and have nothing against.

Always have, always will. It's what I do. I don't owe it to anyone, and no foreign country has ever threatened to impede me in any way.

The ONLY threat to my freedom of speech during my lifetime has come from my own government, and it increases during wartime, so actually anyone supporting war is threatening my freedom of speech rather than defending it.

I agree for the most part here, not sure about that last bit, BUT other posters take note, he said HIS lifetime, which does not include WWII which is probably the last justified war.

 

[Paxil]

Honestly never know how to treat vets... and I am one. I think he has some valid points... especially on the toll it is taking and how maybe we are just concerned with body count and not the real cost of what we are doing (I won't even touch on the why)

 

[Eastoff]

Honestly never know how to treat vets... and I am one. I think he has some valid points... especially on the toll it is taking and how maybe we are just concerned with body count and not the real cost of what we are doing (I won't even touch on the why)

war is a disgusting thing and should be avoided at all costs.

 

[jlprk]

Therefore, the people who died so you can freely spew your communistic rhetoric can just go to hell, eh? You have a funny way of showing your gratitude.

You're the only one in the thread who has argued with the sentiments in the article. Why don't you argue with the article, instead of with those agreeing with it.

I never say thank you for your service. I drop that pretense. I just argue with specific wars or military actions.

 

[Natebishop3]

You know, not every veteran served in Vietnam or Iraq. How about all the men who fought during WWII? Was that cause just enough for you? Saving countless jews and others from the tyranny of the Japanese and Germans? Or were they war mongers too? I thank servicemen and women because they choose to take a job that many others would not. They choose to protect our country and the principles we believe in. Are they always used for good? No. That's not their fault. Sure, as Maris said, not all of them join with the best intentions either. That doesn't mean we should throw them all in the same group.

Sorry, but we owe a great deal to the men and women who have fought over the course of this countries history. I hear that the author is saying, but it's the uniform that many people thank, not the person wearing it.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Honestly never know how to treat vets... and I am one. I think he has some valid points... especially on the toll it is taking and how maybe we are just concerned with body count and not the real cost of what we are doing (I won't even touch on the why)

I'm a VFW and I disagree with his statements.

 

[Denny Crane]

My neighbor is in the Army, he's done several tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. He's a regular enlisted man, not an officer.

I thank him periodically for his service, and it's not some knee jerk kind of thing as the author of the article suggests. Though when I hear "I support the troops but not the war" I do find that to be exactly that (knee jerk).

Like it or not, someone has to do it, and some people find it to be their calling or career. Just as some people choose to be teachers or doctors or firemen or policemen.

When I talk to him about the politics of it, he says it's his job and he goes where those in charge order him. He also tells me he that doing tours in Iraq or Afghanistan are quite lucrative for the soldiers, as they get hazard pay and overseas pay and their housing paid for and that sort of thing. He says he'd love to go back, and the people (locals) he's met over there are terrific and the Americans well received.

Maybe he's one of the rare fortunate ones. He's got a great sense of humor and is always in good cheer. He gets guys on the block together to go hit golf balls at the practice range or to play a round of golf. He parties with the college student types who tend to live here.

Why do I thank him?

His service is voluntary and on my behalf (there isn't a draft). He has put his life at risk so most of us don't have to. He is the very kind of ambassador of good will that our soldiers must be when mixed with the peoples of other countries. I think his profession is an honorable one. He has no designs for power over anyone, in spite of being a public servant.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

My neighbor is in the Army, he's done several tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. He's a regular enlisted man, not an officer.

I thank him periodically for his service, and it's not some knee jerk kind of thing as the author of the article suggests. Though when I hear "I support the troops but not the war" I do find that to be exactly that (knee jerk).

Like it or not, someone has to do it, and some people find it to be their calling or career. Just as some people choose to be teachers or doctors or firemen or policemen.

When I talk to him about the politics of it, he says it's his job and he goes where those in charge order him. He also tells me he that doing tours in Iraq or Afghanistan are quite lucrative for the soldiers, as they get hazard pay and overseas pay and their housing paid for and that sort of thing. He says he'd love to go back, and the people (locals) he's met over there are terrific and the Americans well received.

Maybe he's one of the rare fortunate ones. He's got a great sense of humor and is always in good cheer. He gets guys on the block together to go hit golf balls at the practice range or to play a round of golf. He parties with the college student types who tend to live here.

Why do I thank him?

His service is voluntary and on my behalf (there isn't a draft). He has put his life at risk so most of us don't have to. He is the very kind of ambassador of good will that our soldiers must be when mixed with the peoples of other countries. I think his profession is an honorable one. He has no designs for power over anyone, in spite of being a public servant.

I loved my time in the military. They took care of me and I had a rewarding job. One of my duties was typhoon preparedness in outer Marianas islands. When I traveled there the people were incredibly friendly and remembered how we had saved them from the sadistic abuse of the Japs in WWII. And there we were, still trying to save lives.

To be sure, the military isn't perfect, like liberals see themselves. But overall, those in the military do a damn fine job and I was proud to be one of them- regardless of what the socialists here think of us and just want to crap all over us. I have no shame in the job I did.

 

[Paxil]

I worked at the VA for a short time and it appeared WWII and up until recent history had some pretty decent benefits. I am not saying they shouldn't... just that Iraq/Afghan vets didn't have the same.

People... remember he is not saying you shouldn't thank him... he is just expressing that it brings up different emotions in him and it has nothing to do with your intentions. We certainly seem to have a much deeper appreciation for vets than say after vietnam or korea... but at the same time... I think they have less benefits. But at the same time you can see he feels it is a bit hypocritical to say thanks as you watch vets walk off a cliff even after they are back.

Anyway... I don't agree with all he says and it is fragmented but I do understand the feeling. I understand the frustation... the guilt... hell... military life even in peace time can destroy a family... trying to readjust after being gone for extended periods is hard enough by itself... imagine coming back right now... getting out of the military and trying to find a job with all the physical and emotional scars... and then of course the economy.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Anyway... I don't agree with all he says and it is fragmented but I do understand the feeling. I understand the frustation... the guilt... hell... military life even in peace time can destroy a family... trying to readjust after being gone for extended periods is hard enough by itself... imagine coming back right now... getting out of the military and trying to find a job with all the physical and emotional scars... and then of course the economy.

Good thoughts. There are people who can't handle the job. Also, military life places a lot of stress on families. It certainly isn't for everyone, but for those who do like serving their country it can be a very rewarding career.

 

[Eastoff]

You know, not every veteran served in Vietnam or Iraq. How about all the men who fought during WWII? Was that cause just enough for you? Saving countless jews and others from the tyranny of the Japanese and Germans? Or were they war mongers too? I thank servicemen and women because they choose to take a job that many others would not. They choose to protect our country and the principles we believe in. Are they always used for good? No. That's not their fault. Sure, as Maris said, not all of them join with the best intentions either. That doesn't mean we should throw them all in the same group.

Sorry, but we owe a great deal to the men and women who have fought over the course of this countries history. I hear that the author is saying, but it's the uniform that many people thank, not the person wearing it.

Do you f'ing read our posts? Did you read the article and notice which wars he listed and which he did not? JESUS CHRIST!

 

[Natebishop3]

Do you f'ing read our posts? Did you read the article and notice which wars he listed and which he did not? JESUS CHRIST!

And I'm simply saying that people support the uniform because of the deeds of past generations. Not always because of what the current military is doing. Or did you not read MY post? Why don't you over-react just a bit more so you can pull a BenDavis. That would just make my day.

 

[maxiep]

I don't confuse the policies our government tells the troops to follow; I thank them because they follow them without hesitation. Anyone who volunteers to serve their country and does so honorably is deserving of my respect and my gratitude.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I don't confuse the policies our government tells the troops to follow; I thank them because they follow them without hesitation. Anyone who volunteers to serve their country and does so honorably is deserving of my respect and my gratitude.

It really doesn't matter what they are following without hesitation? Killing innocent women and children, for example?

 

[barfo]

It really doesn't matter what they are following without hesitation? Killing innocent women and children, for example?

You can't blink.
You have to be wired
In a way of being
So committed to the mission,

The mission that we're on,
Reform of this country,
And victory in the war,
You can't blink.

So I didn't blink.

barfo

 

[jlprk]

As the war-weary majority said during and long after WW1

Ours is not to question why
Ours is but to do and die.

It's a sarcastic antiwar refrain, that I often heard in the 50s and 60s, about being oppressed to kill. It means this is stupid, mercenary, and self-destructive. The implication for this thread is that the last thing I'm going to do is praise anyone for doing evil.

 

[Shooter]

I don't owe it to anyone, and no foreign country has ever threatened to impede me in any way . . .

The ONLY threat to my freedom of speech during my lifetime has come from my own government, and it increases during wartime, so actually anyone supporting war is threatening my freedom of speech rather than defending it.

Your precious freedoms are the result of this country going to war against countries like Germany which once threatened the entire world. The reason we live in freedom, and you have the privilege to keep on spewing ignorance, is because we are so militarily strong that other countries are afraid to attack us.

 

[jlprk]

Whatever freedom I have is due to liberals defeating conservatives in battles, both legislative and military. We just saw one with regard to health care.

 

[Denny Crane]

As the war-weary majority said during and long after WW1

Ours is not to question why
Ours is but to do and die.

It's a sarcastic antiwar refrain, that I often heard in the 50s and 60s, about being oppressed to kill. It means this is stupid, mercenary, and self-destructive. The implication for this thread is that the last thing I'm going to do is praise anyone for doing evil.

You quoted from "The Charge of the Light Brigade" by Tennyson.

I think you meant to say,

Over there, over there,
Send the word, send the word over there -
That the Yanks are coming,
The Yanks are coming,
The drums rum-tumming
Ev'rywhere.
So prepare, say a pray'r,
Send the word, send the word to beware.
We'll be over, we're coming over,
And we won't come back till it's over
Over there.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Whatever freedom I have is due to liberals defeating conservatives in battles, both legislative and military. We just saw one with regard to health care.

With all due respect- that is the single most ignorant statement I have seen in my life. But why am I not surprised?

 

[Natebishop3]

Whatever freedom I have is due to liberals defeating conservatives in battles, both legislative and military. We just saw one with regard to health care.

Jefferson was a conservative.

Madison was a conservative.

Lincoln was a conservative.

Try again buddy.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

I thank them for their service, and knowing that if our country is ever attacked they will be the ones putting their lives on the line to keep the rest of us safe and free.

 

[BlazerWookee]

war is a disgusting thing and should be avoided at all costs.

Even if that cost is tyranny?

 

[toutlaw25]

Pretty funny article actually. The author failed to provide any facts (shocking) as to why vets are committing suicide. Could the pain be from pulling your friends from a truck that has just been blown to pieces?? Or the people that actually feel remorse after they've killed a suicide bomber? Some of you are so far detached from reality it is astonishing. I never realized how many military haters there were in Oregon until I moved away. Come to think of it why do we even have a military? According to this board, there is no need for one and we can all live in perfect harmony.