Lillard's and Aldridge's relationship. (He will come back Portland one day) (1 Viewer)

[CupWizier]

there are 33 NBA players averaging at least 20 points; and another 18 who average over 17 points. That's more than 10% of the league and probably close to 15% of rotation players. Seems like a substantial proportion

Going from 17ppg to 20ppg would be a substantial gain.

 

[bobf]

What kind of defense does Aminu face vs LA? Aminu consistently gets wide open looks. He has his moments but....

Of course Aminu gets much better looks. LA is a better scorer obviously. No one is arguing that. The point is that Aminu does not hurt the offense. To the extent that you leave him open, his shots are more efficient than the typical shot the Blazer's get on offense. On defense Chief is much superior to LMA.

 

[CupWizier]

Who is the better defender?

Defensive RPM
          Aminu     LMA
2019     +1.40    +0.29
2018     +2.37    +1.24
2017     +3.13    +1.05
2016     +1.62    +1.49
2015     +2.93    +0.36
-----------------------
Average  +2.29    +0.89
DBPM     +1.40    +0.50  (career)

I like Aminu, but Aldridge is a superior player over all and it really isn't that close. You really need to do more game watching and less stat watching. Teams in the past were very successful using game watching (and still do) in evaluating talent. Stats are nice but just one of many tools to evaluate players.

 

[Orion Bailey]

There are currently 33 players averaging 20 or more out of about 450 players. That is barely over 1 per team.

there are 33 NBA players averaging at least 20 points; and another 18 who average over 17 points. That's more than 10% of the league and probably close to 15% of rotation players. Seems like a substantial proportion

And my position is there are even more, if other players were put into the same role/position as those 33 NBA players.

I'm thinking its closer to 20-25%. So not most( I didn't say most, I replied to someone else who did, though I agreed it was more than just a few)

Not even half, but still close to a quarter of the league I think could average 20ppg, if presented the right situation.

Now to be fair and turn this back to where it was, how many of those 25% are PF's? because the conversation was about getting someone other than LMA who could still average 20ppg, correct me if I'm wrong?

Now this is where @kjironman1 @CupWizier have a valid point and I will even expand on it. This is a guard dominated league, and without looking, i'm willing to bet over half of the 33 players currently averaging 20ppg+ are guards/wings. We aren't going to replace Aminu or choose a guard over LMA. So their point that there aren't many options out there, is in fact very valid.

Are there many players who can average 20ppg? I think there are more than some others do, but I think we can all agree that when it comes to picking someone other than LMA to bring in for the PF position, there are EXTREMELY few choices that average 20ppg.

Love?
Griffin?
LMA?

Who else is a realistic get for us that is a PF and averages 20ppg?

So of those three, who would provide the most improvement to the team?(obviously what we give up is a major factor), but I would say Griffin first, LMA second, Love 3rd.

All that's left is to figure out what would have to be given up for each for us to determine who is the unequivocal best choice for us to pursue.

Lastly, Ill put Aminu back in the mix because of contract size. As pointed out, he has been very efficient overall based on stats even though some think he is horrid and more think he is overrated. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but the contract size is what is the biggest factor for me when comparing him toe the other viable options listed above. Could we figure out how to sign him in the off season to a friendly 7-10 mill per? If so, then I think he is our best option over the others listed above, and we can focus more on upgrading the SF position, which is the other weak link of this team in my opinion. Lots of role player SF's, but not one stud. (can Jake become a stud? Would be the best option for the team if so because he have his rights and can retain him)

 

[Orion Bailey]

I like Aminu, but Aldridge is a superior player over all and it really isn't that close. You really need to do more game watching and less stat watching. Teams in the past were very successful using game watching (and still do) in evaluating talent. Stats are nice but just one of many tools to evaluate players.

I agree with this. Stats never reveal circumstance either. For example. Randle currently Stats are off the hook. Bring back their full roster and he falls back to the mean. But looking at stats alone makes him look like a superstar right now.
Watching the games lets you know how he is being utilized in the game when the stats do not.

 

[Hobbesarable]

And my position is there are even more, if other players were put into the same role/position as those 33 NBA players.

I'm thinking its closer to 20-25%. So not most( I didn't say most, I replied to someone else who did, though I agreed it was more than just a few)

Not even half, but still close to a quarter of the league I think could average 20ppg, if presented the right situation.

Now to be fair and turn this back to where it was, how many of those 25% are PF's? because the conversation was about getting someone other than LMA who could still average 20ppg, correct me if I'm wrong?

Now this is where @kjironman1 @CupWizier have a valid point and I will even expand on it. This is a guard dominated league, and without looking, i'm willing to bet over half of the 20 players currently averaging 20ppg+ are guards/wings. We aren't going to replace Aminu or choose a guard over LMA. So their point that there aren't many options out there, is in fact very valid.

Are there many players who can average 20ppg? I think there are more than some others do, but I think we can all agree that when it comes to picking someone other than LMA to bring in for the PF position, there are EXTREMELY few choices that average 20ppg.

Love?
Griffin?
LMA?

Who else is a realistic get for us that is a PF and averages 20ppg?

So of those three, who would provide the most improvement to the team?(obviously what we give up is a major factor), but I would say Griffin first, LMA second, Love 3rd.

All that's left is to figure out what would have to be given up for each for us to determine who is the unequivocal best choice for us to pursue.

Lastly, Ill put Aminu back in the mix because of contract size. As pointed out, he has been very efficient overall based on stats even though some think he is horrid and more think he is overrated. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but the contract size is what is the biggest factor for me when comparing him toe the other viable options listed above. Could we figure out how to sign him in the off season to a friendly 7-10 mill per? If so, then I think he is our best option over the others listed above, and we can focus more on upgrading the SF position, which is they other weak link of this team in my opinion. Lost of role player SF's, but not one stud. (can Jake become a stud? Would be the best option for the team if so because he have his rights and can retain him)

Preferably one that can score efficiently and give more spacing. Of those three you mentioned, Love and Griffin can shoot the 3 pretty well.

 

[hoopsjock]

There is a lot of bias when it comes to Aldridge in this forum as can be seen by many of the posts in here. The guy has proven to be a very good player in the league and has b een recognized as such by many in the know.

No doubt LaMarcus has had a really good career and is probably even a fringe Hall-of-Famer. If he played out his current contract then he'd be 36 by the time he had a chance to come back here. Chances are he'd have some deterioration of skills by that time.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Preferably one that can score efficiently and give more spacing. Of those three you mentioned, Love and Griffin can shoot the 3 pretty well.

No doubt LaMarcus has had a really good career and is probably even a fringe Hall-of-Famer. If he played out his current contract then he'd be 36 by the time he had a chance to come back here. Chances are he'd have some deterioration of skills by that time.

I agree with both. Based on our constructed team, A PF who has a 3pt would be more valuable than a mid range inside game. We now have the inside game with Nurk, Collins and Kanter. (unless they are used in acquisition of the need).

With that said, Love is a better 3pt shooter than Griffin but I would still want Griffin because he has a much better overall game and though he isn't known as an elite defender, compared to Love, he is.

So with process of elimination( and with on "X" factor; cost) It does seem that Griffin is the guy. Not LMA

But @CupWizier and @kjironman1 are correct. For us, and our needs.... there are EXTREMELY few players we could bring in other than LMA that could prodsuce the numbers LMA has.

Options are limited for sure, which make the cost increase. Supply and demand.

Man.. Now im depressed again. When we deduce things like this it always seems to be, okay.... this is what we need.... and its a slim to no chance of us getting that need.

Fuck all yall for making me walk through this. lol.

 

[CupWizier]

No doubt LaMarcus has had a really good career and is probably even a fringe Hall-of-Famer. If he played out his current contract then he'd be 36 by the time he had a chance to come back here. Chances are he'd have some deterioration of skills by that time.

And that is why i suggested it would be best to trade for him in the off season and then determine what his value is after his contract runs out. If he wants to much then let him walk. BG is the better player right now but he makes over 10 mil more a year and for one more year longer plus he has a lengthy injury history to factor in along withe cost to acquire him compared to Aldridge.

 

[bobf]

I like Aminu, but Aldridge is a superior player over all and it really isn't that close. You really need to do more game watching and less stat watching. Teams in the past were very successful using game watching (and still do) in evaluating talent. Stats are nice but just one of many tools to evaluate players.

Yeah, I watch all the games too, so that was an inaccurate observation on your part. I'd rather have Aminu, all things considered. Teams have made huge errors evaluating talent with their eyes (ET, Meyers Leonard). It's a useful tool, yes, but is also prone to error. Of course if you had to make a team of five Aminu's vs five LMA's you would choose LMA and it wouldn't be close. But that's not how it works. There is only one basketball on the floor. On offense, we already have one superstar creator in Dame, another big offensive threat in CJ, and good facilitator in Nurk. Adding LMA and you just have another player who needs the ball. He is not going to add much marginal value, if any, over those three offensive threats. Combined, they create enough offense that Harkless and Aminu's "clean up" is sufficient when teams over-focus on those three. On the flip side, there are 100 defensive possessions and on every one of those Chief is simply better than LMA.

 

[Orion Bailey]

And that is why i suggested it would be best to trade for him in the off season and then determine what his value is after his contract runs out. If he wants to much then let him walk. BG is the better player right now but he makes over 10 mil more a year and for one more year longer plus he has a lengthy injury history to factor in along withe cost to acquire him compared to Aldridge.

If we are going to trade, meaning giving up some of our roster, id rather give up a little more to get BG, than give up a little less to get LMA. If we are going to wait,l then id rather go after LMA as our backup center when he is an FA. He got his max and has his house just for his shoes, so he doesnt need another big contract.

Go after BG now. trade CJ(who just lost alot of value, I know), collins, harkless and picks for BG. Wait until LMA is a FA and talk him into coming home for a vet min ring chasing contract as our backup center.

3 years for now we are true contenders:

Dame/Hood/Layman/BG/Nurk

Curry/?/?/?/LMA


Okay nm. I just puked a little. Thats not a contender unless those "?" are filled with real talent.

 

[Hobbesarable]

I agree with both. Based on our constructed team, A PF who has a 3pt would be more valuable than a mid range inside game. We now have the inside game with Nurk, Collins and Kanter. (unless they are used in acquisition of the need).

With that said, Love is a better 3pt shooter than Griffin but I would still want Griffin because he has a much better overall game and though he isn't known as an elite defender, compared to Love, he is.

So with process of elimination( and with on "X" factor; cost) It does seem that Griffin is the guy. Not LMA

But @CupWizier and @kjironman1 are correct. For us, and our needs.... there are EXTREMELY few players we could bring in other than LMA that could prodsuce the numbers LMA has.

Options are limited for sure, which make the cost increase. Supply and demand.

Man.. Now im depressed again. When we deduce things like this it always seems to be, okay.... this is what we need.... and its a slim to no chance of us getting that need.

Fuck all yall for making me walk through this. lol.

Well, it also depends on what you're expecting from potentially the 4th scorer on the floor. Are you looking more for offense, defense, or both? Are you looking for a guy primarily shooting inside, mid-range, beyond 3-pt arc or all of the above?

Do you want your PF to be able to do the small things that don't show up on the stat sheet? Want him to play the 4/5 spots?

Team chemistry is a huge issue as well.

There are options. It just depends on what's available and the coach can adapt his game plan to fit in that particular player.

If I had a dream option I could select: Myles Turner. He could be used at the 4/5 spots and I think he would be a nice player to put next to Nurk. Have our version of the twin towers (offensively and defensively).

 

[CupWizier]

If we are going to trade, meaning giving up some of our roster, id rather give up a little more to get BG, than give up a little less to get LMA. If we are going to wait,l then id rather go after LMA as our backup center when he is an FA. He got his max and has his house just for his shoes, so he doesnt need another big contract.

Go after BG now. trade CJ(who just lost alot of value, I know), collins, harkless and picks for BG. Wait until LMA is a FA and talk him into coming home for a vet min ring chasing contract as our backup center.

3 years for now we are true contenders:

Dame/Hood/Layman/BG/Nurk

Curry/?/?/?/LMA


Okay nm. I just puked a little. Thats not a contender unless those "?" are filled with real talent.

I don't see Aldridge coming back for the vet minimum though. I would rather keep McCollum and acquire Aldridge for a much lesser package. We would be stronger over all and deeper. You also have to factor in when some of our big contracts come due. BG's last year is humongous.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Well, it also depends on what you're expecting from potentially the 4th scorer on the floor. Are you looking more for offense, defense, or both? Are you looking for a guy primarily shooting inside, mid-range, beyond 3-pt arc or all of the above?

Do you want your PF to be able to do the small things that don't show up on the stat sheet?

Team chemistry is a huge issue as well.

There are options. It just depends on what's available and the coach can adapt his game plan to fit in that particular player.

If I had a dream option I could select: Myles Turner. He could be used at the 4/5 spots and I think he would be a nice player to put next to Nurk. Have our version of the twin towers (offensively and defensively).

I don.t know if I could handle two Turners on this team though. LOL


If we were to bring in one of those other names, I think they would bump up to 2nd or 3rd option worst case. Not fourth. So the expectation would be greater. And yes, team chemistry is a huge factor and probably a bigger factor on this team than some others because of Dame Culture ( its a real thing!).


Another great point you eluded to. Coaching. Doesn't matter who we bring in if the coach doesn't adjust accordingly to optimize the asset within the current team.

So torn on Coach. Resume overall is good. Great team/players coach, well respected around the league, but does he have what it takes to manipulate a talented roster enough to exploit our strengths and minimize our weaknesses enough to get us to WCF or Finals? I'm torn. I have my doubts our coach can, but I don't know of anyone else I would specifically point to as a no brainer upgrade as coach(realistic and available upgrade)

 

[Orion Bailey]

I don't see Aldridge coming back for the vet minimum though. I would rather keep McCollum and acquire Aldridge for a much lesser package. We would be stronger over all and deeper.

Overall, I tend to agree with you. I think BG will require us to just gut our team too much, so the best value vs cost might indeed be LMA especially if he is sincere in wanting to come back and end his career. May not vet min,k but less than value contract to help us win? Meyers Money? Im with ya. Id do that.

 

[kjironman1]

bunk

Harden - 220
PG - 220
Durant - 240
Lebron - 250
Embiid - 250
Greek - 240
Kawhi - 230
Dame - 200
Blake - 250
KAT - 250

that's 2350 pounds right there, well more than a ton. I'll bet there are at least 4 tons of players that could average 20 points

(do I really need green font for that?)

I stand corrected!

 

[dviss1]

Oh boy here we go again. First, by your own list of talent, Aldridge is at minimum at the second highest level and being a 5 time all NBA player and a 7 time all star could make him borderline superstar as well. Second, it appears you are the one twisting words as I am just trying to understand what dviss is saying in regards to Aldridge thus the dialogue we have had going till you decided to interject for whatever reason and once again blame me. I think it would best to have him define what he meant rather than you make up something that doesn't really make much sense.

Here is what dviss said at one time I guess as I couldn't find that in his replies, but maybe I missed it.

dviss1 said: ↑
I've never thought he was that talented. WHILE he was here

Do you or do you not

SEE THE FUCKING PERIOD AFTER TALENTED?????

RIF.

 

[dviss1]

True. The Memphis series was horrible.

No, it's worse than horrible.

HE FUCKING QUIT ON US WITH GAMES LEFT TO PLAY AND TOOK HIS OWN FLIGHT HOME.

 

[dviss1]

Fuck him.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

bunk

Harden - 220
PG - 220
Durant - 240
Lebron - 250
Embiid - 250
Greek - 240
Kawhi - 230
Dame - 200
Blake - 250
KAT - 250

that's 2350 pounds right there, well more than a ton. I'll bet there are at least 4 tons of players that could average 20 points

(do I really need green font for that?)

No freaking way Durant is 240 lbs, unless he’s tied 30lbs of weight to himself. Indont care if he 8 feet tall, even still that dude looks like he could break in an instant...

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Yeah, I watch all the games too, so that was an inaccurate observation on your part. I'd rather have Aminu, all things considered. Teams have made huge errors evaluating talent with their eyes (ET, Meyers Leonard). It's a useful tool, yes, but is also prone to error. Of course if you had to make a team of five Aminu's vs five LMA's you would choose LMA and it wouldn't be close. But that's not how it works. There is only one basketball on the floor. On offense, we already have one superstar creator in Dame, another big offensive threat in CJ, and good facilitator in Nurk. Adding LMA and you just have another player who needs the ball. He is not going to add much marginal value, if any, over those three offensive threats. Combined, they create enough offense that Harkless and Aminu's "clean up" is sufficient when teams over-focus on those three. On the flip side, there are 100 defensive possessions and on every one of those Chief is simply better than LMA.

Wait you think the Blazers evaluated the talent of ML and ET with their eyes???? They dont pass the eye test at all, they pass or in ET’s case kind of passed the advanced stats test, but no those werent errors of the “eye test” watch ML even todays ‘good’ version and he is not a high IQ Basketball Player, and he fails the eye test fairly regulary, but his stats speak much better of him.
Also I don't get why people talk about Chief as a great defender. He CAN be, but he gets Burned by smaller guards (everyone does these days), and on team defense he doesnt have great eye discipline. Is he a better defender overall then LMA, yes but he isnt exacty Bruce Bowen either. Aminu’s and LMA’s strengths are kind of polar opposites of each other.

 

[CupWizier]

Do you or do you not

SEE THE FUCKING PERIOD AFTER TALENTED?????

RIF.

No reason to cuss and yell at me or any other poster. Not cool.

 

[CupWizier]

Wait you think the Blazers evaluated the talent of ML and ET with their eyes???? They dont pass the eye test at all, they pass or in ET’s case kind of passed the advanced stats test, but no those werent errors of the “eye test” watch ML even todays ‘good’ version and he is not a high IQ Basketball Player, and he fails the eye test fairly regulary, but his stats speak much better of him.
Also I don't get why people talk about Chief as a great defender. He CAN be, but he gets Burned by smaller guards (everyone does these days), and on team defense he doesnt have great eye discipline. Is he a better defender overall then LMA, yes but he isnt exacty Bruce Bowen either. Aminu’s and LMA’s strengths are kind of polar opposites of each other.

Did you watch Turner in college? I did. Did you watch Turner very much in Boston, I did. Leonard was evaluated based on one year of college. Also, how do you even know what analytics the Blazers used for either one?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Did you watch Turner in college? I did. Did you watch Turner very much in Boston, I did. Leonard was evaluated based on one year of college. Also, how do you even know what analytics the Blazers used for either one?

Yeah I saw ET and ML in college. ET could never shoot and was a poor mans Brandon Roy, without a jumper past about 16 feet even at Ohio State. I saw him at Boston and that was the system he should be in, it highlighted his strengths, he played the “point” in transition a lot, and played with guys who could attack the basket and provide space, Blazers are trying to emulate that in the 2nd unit this year. The Eye test only worked for ET in Boston but he was never a guy who jumped off the screen though. Also ML on his current I have a very hard time believing anyone thought ML deserved this contract based on the “eye test”...

 

[hoopsjock]

And that is why i suggested it would be best to trade for him in the off season and then determine what his value is after his contract runs out. If he wants to much then let him walk. BG is the better player right now but he makes over 10 mil more a year and for one more year longer plus he has a lengthy injury history to factor in along withe cost to acquire him compared to Aldridge.

Just curious, did I miss a report/rumor saying that the Spurs would be looking to part with Aldridge this summer? What makes him cheaper than Griffin? For the reasons you've mentioned about Griffin their trade value could be close to the same this summer. I'm guessing it somewhat depends on how the Pistons and Spurs finish their respective seasons.

Olshey also said that he was in talks for a player that would have been a significant salary commitment for Jody Allen and she was fine with it. That player would have almost had to be one of Love, Griffin, or Aldridge. I think Olshey will revisit those talks this summer with whoever that player was.

 

[Labinot41]

2P% - LMA 52.1% vs Aminu 51.6%
So if you replace all of Aminu's 2-pointers for the season with LMA, you would have to endure one whole less brick on the season.

3p% - LMA 25.8% vs Aminu 35.0%
But if you likewise replaced all of LMA 3-pointers for the season with Aminu, you would have 3 less bricks from Chief.

TS% - LMA 57.2% vs Aminu 57.1%
But yes, LMA bricks do look prettier.

TS%
Dame 59.1%
Aminu 57.1%
Nurk 56.9%
CJ 55.7%
Collins 55.1%
Harkless 54.4%

Aminu is the second most efficient of the Blazer starters this year.

Aldridge is averaging 21/9/2 and is an All Star, what is Aminu? He's in his 4th year in Portland and still shooting only 35% on wide open 3s, nobody guards him. Thats not worth a discussion for me, Aldridge is 100 times better than Aminu

 

[Lanny]

Meh it’s too late now. What’s the point to have an old LMA.

Never understood why he left anyways. Players practically beg their teams to trade for help or draft great picks and LMA had a gifted superstar come to him. You leave the extra 40M or whatever it was AND a star point guard? Just dumb as fuck

He claimed it was because his daughter lived in Texas with his ex wife and he wanted ot be near her. He took less money to make the move so I can only deduce that being near his daughter must have been the main reason.

 

[Lanny]

Aldridge is averaging 21/9/2 and is an All Star, what is Aminu? He's in his 4th year in Portland and still shooting only 35% on wide open 3s, nobody guards him. Thats not worth a discussion for me, Aldridge is 100 times better than Aminu

35% from the three is like 52.5% from within the arc and that ain't peanuts.

 

[bobf]

Wait you think the Blazers evaluated the talent of ML and ET with their eyes???? They dont pass the eye test at all, they pass or in ET’s case kind of passed the advanced stats test, but no those werent errors of the “eye test” watch ML even todays ‘good’ version and he is not a high IQ Basketball Player, and he fails the eye test fairly regulary, but his stats speak much better of him.
Also I don't get why people talk about Chief as a great defender. He CAN be, but he gets Burned by smaller guards (everyone does these days), and on team defense he doesnt have great eye discipline. Is he a better defender overall then LMA, yes but he isnt exacty Bruce Bowen either. Aminu’s and LMA’s strengths are kind of polar opposites of each other.

In the case of Meyers I think they imagined what he could become. In the case of ET I don't know what they were thinking. Neither passes the advanced metrics so I have to assume someone used their judgment. ET has one of the worst RPM's in the NBA and has had for 5 years straight. Aminu is not and elite defender but he's a very good defender as his advance stats show in DRPM and BDPM. Keeping a guard in front of you is only one element of defense among many.

 

[hoopsjock]

In the case of Meyers I think they imagined what he could become. In the case of ET I don't know what they were thinking. Neither passes the advanced metrics so I have to assume someone used their judgment. ET has one of the worst RPM's in the NBA and has had for 5 years straight. Aminu is not and elite defender but he's a very good defender as his advance stats show in DRPM and BDPM. Keeping a guard in front of you is only one element of defense among many.

They thought Turner was going to be our point forward much like Batum was at times who would alleviate all the pressure off of Dame and CJ. Unfortunately if you're a guard/wing in Stotts' offense who can't shoot you are pretty much worthless.