Lillard's and Aldridge's relationship. (He will come back Portland one day)

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I get comparing our starting PF to one on another team. Aldridge is a way better player. What I don't get is why we'd have to choose one over the other. Aminu could in theory (maybe not under Stotts) play some SF too and Aldridge can definitely play some center. Aminu is also a free agent with Full Bird Rights so we could easily keep both, if the luxury tax wasn't an issue.

Ideally I'd rather have someone else than either of those two.

Well, yeah. I would ideally pick neither, but many of the posts were talking about Aminu vs LMA so I was addressing that.

I am kind of indifferent about keeping Chief around, he’s a decent role player, he has made some clutch shots for us, seems like a good person. Talent wise, I think he’s replaceable though. In fact I think Zach will replace him next year (depending on offseason moves of course).

 

[CupWizier]

I get comparing our starting PF to one on another team. Aldridge is a way better player. What I don't get is why we'd have to choose one over the other. Aminu could in theory (maybe not under Stotts) play some SF too and Aldridge can definitely play some center. Aminu is also a free agent with Full Bird Rights so we could easily keep both, if the luxury tax wasn't an issue.

Ideally I'd rather have someone else than either of those two.

I have absolutely no problem with Aminu being on the team, but he is a free agent after this season and may want to leave if he sees a possibility of losing his starting spot and also depends on what he would cost to retain. If he would be willing to take a reasonable 2 year contract then he might be worth investing in. That way he would be expiring when some of the bigger contracts will be coming due as well. Hate to get locked in with a long term contract for a role player.

 

[CupWizier]

The Spurs would never trade LMA, he's their Duncan 2.0.

Could be true, but Spurs are facing a crossroad as to what direction they want to go in. Do they resign Gay, or let him go so that they can go younger as he is expiring at the end of the year. That decision might be an indicator that Spurs will go youth movement as they have some nice young pieces.

 

[hoopsjock]

Could be true, but Spurs are facing a crossroad as to what direction they want to go in. Do they resign Gay, or let him go so that they can go younger as he is expiring at the end of the year. That decision might be an indicator that Spurs will go youth movement as they have some nice young pieces.

I don't really think Gay has a huge bearing on their future. They should be able to get someone better than him with their Full-MLE if they choose to keep trying to stay good. Currently they have 11 players under contract next year, plus the 20th, 29th, and 50th picks in the draft (as of right now).

If they're going to blow it up it might make more sense to wait one more season to do so.

 

[bobf]

Aldridge plays about 4 more minutes than Aminu so are you saying that the pf position is giving the similar production in the same amount of time as Aldridge? Who is this magical superstar that is scoring at a 12ppg game clip in 4 minutes as Aminu only averages 9+ ppg? That's fantastic and we need to exploit it. Who is it?

Strawman. I said that Aminu is giving that same rebounding production as Aldridge on a per minute basis (fewer ORB more DRB as I explained). The team as a whole is giving the same scoring production as LA on a per offensive possession basis (Aminu on a per shot basis). LA takes about 2x the shots as Aminu per minute. LA will not magically bring those extra shots with him. He will use up shots currently taken by Nurk, Dame, CJ, Harkeless. The shots LA replaces are already as efficient as LA's shots.

 

[bobf]

Im on my phone so I cant go look at numbers very easily. Heres my thoughts.

If LMA is coming as a center he’s obviously not the starter, that would be Nurk.

If he came over as the PF theres an interesting debate here. I think LMA is a better player then Aminu, not even all that close imo, could you imagine if teams played Aminu like they do LMA? He’s not a very good offensive player when left completely alone...

Aminu:
Better overall defender, especially guarding wings and switching. Better Chemistry guy, doesnt need the ball in his hands. Works harder then LMA who is kind of a lazy player at times in my opinion.

Aldridge:
Able to post up create his own shot, better defender against bigs and stronger players, also has become a good help defender in SA. The defense will not leave him open so will create space for others.

Depending on the cost and when they get him Id choose LmA, but Im in the minority and I understand that.

If you played LA on the second unit he'd be way more valuable to this team than as a starter over Aminu. Our starting unit is already quite good and balanced. Obviously it would be better if Aminu could hit 38% of his 3's and even moreso Harkless. But they are both good defenders and provide just enough offensive threat to be acceptable. Along with Nurk (mostly because of Nurk but they help) gone are the days when teams slashed us to pieces driving the ball. Our biggest weakness is our second unit and LA would provide more offense and defense than Kanter can provide.

 

[CupWizier]

Strawman. I said that Aminu is giving that same rebounding production as Aldridge on a per minute basis (fewer ORB more DRB as I explained). The team as a whole is giving the same scoring production as LA on a per offensive possession basis (Aminu on a per shot basis). LA takes about 2x the shots as Aminu per minute. LA will not magically bring those extra shots with him. He will use up shots currently taken by Nurk, Dame, CJ, Harkeless. The shots LA replaces are already as efficient as LA's shots.

Eliminate the name calling and i would gladly have a discussion with you.

 

[bobf]

Eliminate the name calling and i would gladly have a discussion with you.

I didn't call you any names. I said your argument is a strawman argument since I neither said nor implied that anyone is scoring 12ppg in 4 minutes. So why do you bring it up?

"Who is this magical superstar that is scoring at a 12ppg game clip in 4 minutes as Aminu only averages 9+ ppg?"

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

If you played LA on the second unit he'd be way more valuable to this team than as a starter over Aminu. Our starting unit is already quite good and balanced. Obviously it would be better if Aminu could hit 38% of his 3's and even moreso Harkless. But they are both good defenders and provide just enough offensive threat to be acceptable. Along with Nurk (mostly because of Nurk but they help) gone are the days when teams slashed us to pieces driving the ball. Our biggest weakness is our second unit and LA would provide more offense and defense than Kanter can provide.

I think our biggest weakness is that our starters at forwards combine to be one of the worst groups of starting forwards in the NBA, they aren't individually "bad", and I think a good team/contender could start one of them, but starting both of them is a bit of a disaster at times. Now once in a while, Moe will look like a legit starter and not just a role player and I start thinking oh they can compete when he gets them 15 and 6, and he plays good defense. Way too many games where you look and see that their starting forwards combined for a 10p's and 10r's (or less) in a combined like 45-50 minutes. Hard to win when that happens. They have a few options off the Bench, Zach, ET, Hood, Layman, all who have played well at times but none of them have stood out as this is a guy who makes their starters really legit.
Just my opinion, and it could be wrong.

 

[CupWizier]

I didn't call you any names. I said your argument is a strawman argument since I neither said nor implied that anyone is scoring 12ppg in 4 minutes. So why do you bring it up?

"Who is this magical superstar that is scoring at a 12ppg game clip in 4 minutes as Aminu only averages 9+ ppg?"

You started off your response to me with Strawman. and then went on to an explanation and never a mention of a strawman argument. It sure looked to me like you were calling me strawman as another poster has also been using that frequently. If I interpreted wrong, then I apologize. You also stated this and this is what I was responding to:

We are already getting 21/9/2 production on the same usage & minutes.

It appeared that you are saying that we are already getting pretty much the same production with our PF's that Aldridge has been putting up so I asked who that other player is that is filling in that 12 points. If that wasn't what you meant then an explanation would be nice. Words often get lost in translation.

 

[bobf]

I think our biggest weakness is that our starters at forwards combine to be one of the worst groups of starting forwards in the NBA, they aren't individually "bad", and I think a good team/contender could start one of them, but starting both of them is a bit of a disaster at times. Now once in a while, Moe will look like a legit starter and not just a role player and I start thinking oh they can compete when he gets them 15 and 6, and he plays good defense. Way too many games where you look and see that their starting forwards combined for a 10p's and 10r's (or less) in a combined like 45-50 minutes. Hard to win when that happens. They have a few options off the Bench, Zach, ET, Hood, Layman, all who have played well at times but none of them have stood out as this is a guy who makes their starters really legit.
Just my opinion, and it could be wrong.

To me they are quite ok. If both could hit 38% from three they would be ideal. They just need to be enough of an offensive threat to force defenses to guard them so Dame, Nurk, and CJ have space to operate. When Draymond Green could kind of hit a 3 pointer he was an extremely valuable player on the Dubs. Now that he can't, it's 4 on 5 on offense and his value is greatly diminished.

Our starting five is +8.9 points per 100 possessions. Sub Layman for Harkless and it's +9.8. Those are our top two lineups in terms of minutes. Not too shabby.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

To me they are quite ok. If both could hit 38% from three they would be ideal. They just need to be enough of an offensive threat to force defenses to guard them so Dame, Nurk, and CJ have space to operate. When Draymond Green could kind of hit a 3 pointer he was an extremely valuable player on the Dubs. Now that he can't, it's 4 on 5 on offense and his value is greatly diminished.

Our starting five is +8.9 points per 100 possessions. Sub Layman for Harkless and it's +9.8. Those are our top two lineups in terms of minutes. Not too shabby.

Its not bad, I just dont think they can win it all without a pretty sizeable upgrade at least in consistency at, at least one of the forward spots.

Whats interesting about both those guys is that its feast or famine with them, when they’re good, they’re very good when they are bad, its pretty ugly...

 

[kjironman1]

I get comparing our starting PF to one on another team. Aldridge is a way better player. What I don't get is why we'd have to choose one over the other. Aminu could in theory (maybe not under Stotts) play some SF too and Aldridge can definitely play some center. Aminu is also a free agent with Full Bird Rights so we could easily keep both, if the luxury tax wasn't an issue.

Ideally I'd rather have someone else than either of those two.

Exactly!

 

[CupWizier]

Its not bad, I just dont think they can win it all without a pretty sizeable upgrade at least in consistency at, at least one of the forward spots.

Whats interesting about both those guys is that its feast or famine with them, when they’re good, they’re very good when they are bad, its pretty ugly...

I would agree TBF as acquiring a quality upgrade at starting SF or PF would definitely put us in the contender category. With Aminu and Harkless as our starters we are just a solid playoff team and rely an awful lot on Lillard, McCollum and Nurkic.

 

[Hobbesarable]

Eliminate the name calling and i would gladly have a discussion with you.

@bobf referred to your argument as a Strawman fallacy. That is within S2 posting rules.

Looks like you guys are clarifying the argument now. Haha.

 

[bobf]

You started off your response to me with Strawman. and then went on to an explanation and never a mention of a strawman argument. It sure looked to me like you were calling me strawman as another poster has also been using that frequently. If I interpreted wrong, then I apologize. You also stated this and this is what I was responding to:

We are already getting 21/9/2 production on the same usage & minutes.

It appeared that you are saying that we are already getting pretty much the same production with our PF's that Aldridge has been putting up so I asked who that other player is that is filling in that 12 points. If that wasn't what you meant then an explanation would be nice. Words often get lost in translation.

Ok, then I misunderstood your response and I apologize as well. It seemed to me that you were creating a caricature of my post with your questions which did not seem to correlate to what I was saying.

Yes, we are getting the same production on the same usage, meaning on the same number of offensive possessions/shots "used up" (by the whole team, not PF alone) . Since you only get so many possessions in a game, if one player shoots more, other players have to shoot less.

 

[CupWizier]

Ok, then I misunderstood your response and I apologize as well. It seemed to me that you were creating a caricature of my post with your questions which did not seem to correlate to what I was saying.

Yes, we are getting the same production on the same usage, meaning on the same number of offensive possessions/shots "used up" (by the whole team, not PF alone) . Since you only get so many possessions in a game, if one player shoots more, other players have to shoot less.

I can agree with that, but in my opinion the better players you have and the more consistent they are makes it harder to stop Lillard and as a secondary McCollum. Biggest problem with Aminu is that offensively he can be very inconsistent and in those games we struggle because it is harder for or scorers. Like I said, I have been an Aminu supporter and appreciate what he provides but like i mentioned to TBF Aldridge is a significant upgrade. I know you disagree, but that's just how I feel. I think many posters reaction to Aldridge is based on how he left, not how he performed when here.

 

[CupWizier]

@bobf referred to your argument as a Strawman fallacy. That is within S2 posting rules.

Looks like you guys are clarifying the argument now. Haha.

I appreciate your input. It just seemed strange like i mentioned to Bob to only say Strawman to start the response to me. I interpreted it as if I responded to you and said Hobbs. yada yada yada. I never said it was against any rules. It was only a request by me and I even asked if I interpreted it wrong and apologized if so.

 

[Hobbesarable]

I appreciate your input. It just seemed strange like i mentioned to Bob to only say Strawman to start the response to me. I interpreted it as if I responded to you and said Hobbs. yada yada yada. I never said it was against any rules. It was only a request by me and I even asked if I interpreted it wrong and apologized if so.

I understood what you meant as I read that post and others after making my post. Hence, the edit with yada, yada, haha. Making light of it after all.

 

[CupWizier]

I understood what you meant as I read that post and others after making my post. Hence, the edit with yada, yada, haha. Making light of it after all.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Could be true, but Spurs are facing a crossroad as to what direction they want to go in. Do they resign Gay, or let him go so that they can go younger as he is expiring at the end of the year. That decision might be an indicator that Spurs will go youth movement as they have some nice young pieces.

Pops ain't getting any younger...

 

[bobf]

Its not bad, I just dont think they can win it all without a pretty sizeable upgrade at least in consistency at, at least one of the forward spots.

Whats interesting about both those guys is that its feast or famine with them, when they’re good, they’re very good when they are bad, its pretty ugly...

No we can't win it all without a huge upgrade or an amazing fluke. If we had Paul George we would be at the top echelon, but even then probably not even favorites. I don't see us being able to acquire the level of talent needed. The most likely place we can obtain that upgrade would be if Zach blossomed into a total stud. What I am against is dumping a good player that we already have just because we imagine that a player like Zach will end up being better. Aminu is at least an average starter at his position, an above average player. Lose him and it's a step back even if Zach becomes twice as good a Chief.

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[Phatguysrule]

LaMarshmallow who? Forget that guy. First, the problem was Roy, then it was Oden, finally it was Dame. It was always someone else. You know what I think? The problem was him. It's always going to be him.

No reunion. He's gone and should stay gone.

Agreed. He has shown over and over that he is unreliable.

He already screwed us by not giving us a chance to trade him. Now he wants us to give up more to bring him back?

Screw you Aldridge.

 

[GhostOfPGA]

If the Spurs would like to take my offer of Turner, Harkless, Labissiere, and our 2019/2021 (lottery protected) for Aldridge and Belinelli, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[hoopsjock]

If the Spurs would like to take my offer of Turner, Harkless, Labissiere, and our 2019/2021 (lottery protected) for Aldridge and Belinelli, it would be greatly appreciated.

Yikes, two 1sts for Aldridge?

 

[blue9]

Yikes, two 1sts for Aldridge?

Yikes, Harkless for LA?

 

[GhostOfPGA]

Yikes, two 1sts for Aldridge?

Considering they will be in the 20s, and we already have our young guys to develop in Collins, Simons, Trent, and Layman emerging as a starting level player potentially we have the luxury to move multiple draft picks to win now.

 

[hoopsjock]

Considering they will be in the 20s, and we already have our young guys to develop in Collins, Simons, Trent, and Layman emerging as a starting level player potentially we have the luxury to move multiple draft picks to win now.

Sure but not for Aldridge. San Antonio would then flip Turner, Harkless, and picks at the deadline for someone even better.

 

[GhostOfPGA]

Sure but not for Aldridge. San Antonio would then flip Turner, Harkless, and picks at the deadline for someone even better.

Like who? I’m genuinely curious. Maybe someone like Hayward? Horford? Love?

I understand the hate for Aldridge, I’ve had it for years... however, he is an all star big man still. He just dropped 48 points, still has his team in playoff position, and has a good 2-3 years left.