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[Phatguysrule]

I have never asked for much from the VA other than one State VA home loan and my educational benefits (along with the veterans discount at the dispensaries) but I will finally be looking into VA for health care. The VA can't be any more screwed up than Medicare supplemental insurance. Though they seem to go out of their way to renege on the promises made at the time of enlistment. But yes, the time has come for all those who wanna make "American Great Again" to underwrite Big Pharma greed for those Americans who actually donated years of their lives so that those who didn't can trash this country and the people who defended it.

I hope it works out for you.

All Americans should have all of this covered. The strength of the American economy should benefit the people when it comes to healthcare. We should get the best pricing.

Medicare For All as Bernie proposed it would be a significant improvement and give the US the best healthcare system in the world. At no additional cost.

Remember, the US currently spends enough tax dollars on healthcare to fully fund a Canadian style healthcare system for every American.

No out of pocket costs. No premiums. No copays.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

I hope it works out for you.

All Americans should have all of this covered. The strength of the American economy should benefit the people when it comes to healthcare. We should get the best pricing.

Medicare For All as Bernie proposed it would be a significant improvement and give the US the best healthcare system in the world. At no additional cost.

Remember, the US currently spends enough tax dollars on healthcare to fully fund a Canadian style healthcare system for every American.

No out of pocket costs. No premiums. No copays.

We have the most expensive health care system and yet, the worst by all metrics of all developed nations.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

We have the most expensive health care system and yet, the worst by all metrics of all developed nations.

But we have the fastest health care system, you can go from zero to bankrupt in just a few minutes.

 

[barfo]

The "American people don't care" mantra is shilling for the establishment. They care plenty. But when you make it so hard for people to survive, people have no choice but to prioritize themselves and their immediate family.

So they prioritize themselves and their families by not bothering to vote, or if they do vote, by voting for mostly incumbents and/or celebrities?

How do you expect 'the establishment' to ever change if people don't elect better representatives?

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

So they prioritize themselves and their families by not bothering to vote, or if they do vote, by voting for mostly incumbents and/or celebrities?

How do you expect 'the establishment' to ever change if people don't elect better representatives?

barfo

How do you expect a husband to stop beating his wife if she won't do anything to help herself?

 

[barfo]

How do you expect a husband to stop beating his wife if she won't do anything to help herself?

Yeah, that's a lousy analogy. But I don't think it would be realistic to expect a wife beater to just stop of his own accord.

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

Yeah, that's a lousy analogy. But I don't think it would be realistic to expect a wife beater to just stop of his own accord.

barfo

It's almost like we appoint people to intervene in situations like that... And we expect them to protect us rather than letting the abusive husband pay them off...

 

[barfo]

It's almost like we appoint people to intervene in situations like that... And we expect them to protect us rather than letting the abusive husband pay them off...

Right. And if they didn't intervene/protect, we'd want to fire them.
The way we appoint people to run the government is by voting.
The way we fire people in government is by voting.
Sitting around wishing that our elected representatives will suddenly start doing what we want done is not realistic.

barfo

 

[Sheldon Shape]

So they prioritize themselves and their families by not bothering to vote, or if they do vote, by voting for mostly incumbents and/or celebrities?

How do you expect 'the establishment' to ever change if people don't elect better representatives?

barfo

People understandably lose interest. Why invest the time and energy? Voting for the same establishment figures hasn't yielded much other than disappointment and broken promises. There's a system problem, not a candidate problem. Biden, Kamala, McConnell are all slaves to the system. People vote to burn it all down. IE Trump, Barry. Unless a REAL candidate shows up like Bernie Sanders.

 

[barfo]

People understandably lose interest. Why invest the time and energy? Voting for the same establishment figures hasn't yielded much other than disappointment and broken promises. There's a system problem, not a candidate problem. Biden, Kamala, McConnell are all slaves to the system. People vote to burn it all down. IE Trump, Barry. Unless a REAL candidate shows up like Bernie Sanders.

Sure, it's understandable they lose interest. Understandable isn't the same thing as acceptable, though.

Trump isn't burning it down. Trump is just making all the existing problems worse.

If you want to burn it down, you need an actual revolution. Well, you know, everybody wants to change the world.

Or, you could fix the problem (over time) by voting! But that would require people to invest time and energy, and that's just asking too much.

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

Right. And if they didn't intervene/protect, we'd want to fire them.
The way we appoint people to run the government is by voting.
The way we fire people in government is by voting.
Sitting around wishing that our elected representatives will suddenly start doing what we want done is not realistic.

barfo

You mean, like not voting sitting President Trump? Like not voting for the sitting VP Harris?

We've fired them the last few times. That's not sitting around. Black Lives Matter protests was just sitting around?

The problem is that the DNC in the RNC keep giving us shitty (sellout) choices.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Sure, it's understandable they lose interest. Understandable isn't the same thing as acceptable, though.

Trump isn't burning it down. Trump is just making all the existing problems worse.

If you want to burn it down, you need an actual revolution. Well, you know, everybody wants to change the world.

Or, you could fix the problem (over time) by voting! But that would require people to invest time and energy, and that's just asking too much.

barfo

Trump making things so bad could accelerate ripping it down faster than the incrementalism of the Democratic party. Voting hasn't fixed healthcare. It's made it worse.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Trump making things so bad could accelerate ripping it down faster than the incrementalism of the Democratic party. Voting hasn't fixed healthcare. It's made it worse.

The reality is the DNC needs to fix this and do better or we are going to wind up with a ton of suffering. Sitting around and just blaming the voters is asking for trouble. Begging for trouble.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

The reality is the DNC needs to fix this and do better or we are going to wind up with a ton of suffering. Sitting around and just blaming the voters is asking for trouble. Begging for trouble.

They want to blame everyone but themselves. I'm not confident that they will turn away from the corporate donors. This is a system problem. Allowing money in politics is the genesis of all the evil in our system. Until we stop that, nothing will get better.

 

[barfo]

The reality is the DNC needs to fix this and do better or we are going to wind up with a ton of suffering. Sitting around and just blaming the voters is asking for trouble. Begging for trouble.

The DNC can't fix anything. It has no power even when Democrats control government, it certainly has no power now.

Thinking the DNC is going to 'fix this' is magical thinking, akin waiting for Alphonse the Blue Unicorn to fix it.

barfo

 

[barfo]

They want to blame everyone but themselves. I'm not confident that they will turn away from the corporate donors. This is a system problem. Allowing money in politics is the genesis of all the evil in our system. Until we stop that, nothing will get better.

Right. So how are we going to stop that?

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

The DNC can't fix anything. It has no power even when Democrats control government, it certainly has no power now.

Thinking the DNC is going to 'fix this' is magical thinking, akin waiting for Alphonse the Blue Unicorn to fix it.

barfo

If you don't think the DNC has any say over who gets picked then you have your head in the sand.

 

[Phatguysrule]

They want to blame everyone but themselves. I'm not confident that they will turn away from the corporate donors. This is a system problem. Allowing money in politics is the genesis of all the evil in our system. Until we stop that, nothing will get better.

I agree. But it's not going to stop until somebody (group of somebody's) gets enough control over the Democrats to stop it. It's definitely not coming from the Republican side.

Or, the people will revolt. Maybe leading to a civil war. And that will be truly terrifying. That is the absolute worst case scenario.

 

[barfo]

You mean, like not voting sitting President Trump? Like not voting for the sitting VP Harris?

We've fired them the last few times.

No. Maybe for president we've fired them, but an overwhelming percentage of other elected officials got reelected.

That's not sitting around. Black Lives Matter protests was just sitting around?

Not sitting around, but also not effective if it isn't followed up by people running for office that intend on following through, and the voters voting for those people.

Protests don't work if people get bored with them and start focusing on the NFL or Game of Thrones instead.

barfo

 

[barfo]

I agree. But it's not going to stop until somebody (group of somebody's) gets enough control over the Democrats to stop it. It's definitely not coming from the Republican side.

Or, the people will revolt. Maybe leading to a civil war. And that will be truly terrifying. That is the absolute worst case scenario.

Right, so how does somebody get control over the Democratic party? Oh, by getting votes. Where do votes come from again?

Could it be... voters?

barfo

 

[barfo]

If you don't think the DNC has any say over who gets picked then you have your head in the sand.

And your conception of the DNC is ridiculous. You really think Jaime Harrison is anything more than a glorified event planner?

You do, but he isn't.
(or wasn't, I think his term may be over).

barfo

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Right. So how are we going to stop that?

barfo

Probably violence.

 

[Phatguysrule]

No. Maybe for president we've fired them, but an overwhelming percentage of other elected officials got reelected.



Not sitting around, but also not effective if it isn't followed up by people running for office that intend on following through, and the voters voting for those people.

Protests don't work if people get bored with them and start focusing on the NFL or Game of Thrones instead.

barfo

Any movement will require leadership. The Democrats could actually do it without a huge uprising if they'd just focus on protecting individual rights (by doing things like eliminating citizens United, as they could have done with Obama and Biden) improving access to education, healthcare, and the social safety net.

They could have made huge progress on all of those fronts if they would have just focused on them. Both under Obama and under Biden.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Right, so how does somebody get control over the Democratic party? Oh, by getting votes. Where do votes come from again?

Could it be... voters?

barfo

Who was it that voted to give Hillary control over the DNC leading up to the 2016 election?

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Right, so how does somebody get control over the Democratic party? Oh, by getting votes. Where do votes come from again?

Could it be... voters?

barfo

How are voters supposed to make an educated vote when the DNC is pulling the strings in the media? That's how they stopped Bernie and a primary. That's how they force fed us Hilary and Biden and convince people like you to repeat nonsense like "blue no matter who" and "Biden doesn't have cognitive issues, it's just his stuttering."

 

[Sheldon Shape]

I agree. But it's not going to stop until somebody (group of somebody's) gets enough control over the Democrats to stop it. It's definitely not coming from the Republican side.

Or, the people will revolt. Maybe leading to a civil war. And that will be truly terrifying. That is the absolute worst case scenario.

They ain't going to give it up. It needs to be ripped from them. Probably violently.

 

[Phatguysrule]

They ain't going to give it up. It needs to be ripped from them. Probably violently.

That would fucking suck. Until then I'm going to keep advocating for Democrats to do better.

 

[barfo]

Probably violence.

Probably, but maybe we should try non-violent options first.

Just a thought.

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

Probably, but maybe we should try non-violent options first.

Just a thought.

barfo

That's what I've been advocating for. What you are advocating for (waiting for the people to to get fed up) is going to wind up as violence.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Probably, but maybe we should try non-violent options first.

Just a thought.

barfo

As if people haven't been trying already while thousands die each year from the healthcare system, homelessness and the pollutants put into our foods because industries have successfully lobbied the Democratic party to allow them to.

"Trying non-violent options first." Ha. As if people haven't been trying for decades.

I'm not suggesting it, I'm merely telling it like it is. The establishment ain't giving you anything. You have to rip it away from them. That's just being realistic.

Unless the left finds their own Trump. Jon Stewart, come on down!