Looks Like Outkast is done

[NTC]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting THE DREAM:</div><div class="quote_post">The imagery of the verse made it great...just think of a guy (particulary a rich man) rollin through the hood in his expensive car with his windows rolled up....in a sense it's like he has no knowledge of what's going on....so when Andre says roll the window down, he's actually saying take the blinders off and experience it first hand yourself so you will no longer be ignorant to what really goes on.........that's the thing with great lyricism, it's a rhyme within a rhyme...something that can be simple can be sooooooooo complex if the listener wants to look deep enough.</div>

The thing is though, that piece was only deep because you had to pick it apart and find the meaning for yourself, to me, a great MC tells you the story or the message, and doesnt need you to sit there and pull it apart for yourself, potentially finding messages or meanings that arnt there.

You know, dont get me wrong, I love Outkast, I'm listening to "Aquenimi" as I type this, I just cant see Andre Benjamin as a top 10 MC, not with the other talent out there.

Just for the record, that wasnt my official top 10 I posted, it was just 10 MC's who I think are better than Andre Benjamin.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting THE DREAM:</div><div class="quote_post">As far as Biggie goes he had 2 great albums and one of them was a double disc....so essentially 3 disc of material that we can judge him on when he was alive....L had lifestylez of the poor and dangerous....and that's it....and like you mentioned he was one dimensional for the most part....I'm a fan of L, but a top 10 MC imo should be able to switch is subject matter up from time to time....I will agree that he had a great flow, punches, freestyling ability, etc.....but so do Chino XL and Eminem (well the old Eminem), Canibus, Ras Kass, Redman and a bunch of other dudes who are imo better than L in some of those categories....L was a special talent, but artistically speaking he wasn't that creative or innovative like the rest of the people on my list....ATLiens, Death Certificate, It Takes A Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back, 36 Chambers, Miseducation of Lauryn Hill, Illadelph Halflife are just on another level musically and artistically than LSPD...and that's on a production, creative, and lyrical standpoint....I mentioned those albums because those artist (Cube, Andre, Chuck D, Lauryn Hill, Black Thought, GZA and Ghostface) were left off of your list in place of Big L.</div>

"Life After Death" was a poor album compared to "Ready To Die", most (and I've seen alot of people say this) would agree it wasnt a great.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phunDamentalz:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree with everything you say except for WHERE IS THE LOVE FOR KWELI? In my mind he is top 10 alltime and better than Common and Black Thought (who are both still Gods of hiphop). Big L was very good, but he wouldn't even crack the top 30 alltime over guys like Kurupt and Ras Kass. Face it, he's given more props cause he's dead. It's good to see you rate Ice Cube and Andre as the great artists they are. And Ghostface is the best wu rapper, well said. how do you like Fishscale?</div>

lol, Big L wouldnt even crack the top 30 all time? and Kurupt would? LOL. He isnt given more props because he's dead, he's given props because he was good. He wasnt a political rapper, he rarely had a message, but he could rip you apart with his sick use of lyrical abilities. If you're listening to L and expecting some sort of political backing or message, then of course you're going to be dissapointed, but if you're listening to his wordplay, metaphors, multies, punches, freestyles etc. then you should be impressed.

Although I rate Mos Def higher, I agree about Talib Kweli, I think he is quite underated.

I wouldnt call Ghostface the best member of the Clan either, GZA has him beat lyrically, and I'm feeling Raekwons flow more. But if you like Wu, you should check out Sunz Of Man.

 

[The Dream]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">"Life After Death" was a poor album compared to "Ready To Die", most (and I've seen alot of people say this) would agree it wasnt a great.
</div>

I like Ready 2 Die more, and LAD is somewhat overrated imo, but I wouldn't call it "poor"...it was still a pretty damn good album.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The thing is though, that piece was only deep because you had to pick it apart and find the meaning for yourself, to me, a great MC tells you the story or the message, and doesnt need you to sit there and pull it apart for yourself, potentially finding messages or meanings that arnt there.

You know, dont get me wrong, I love Outkast, I'm listening to "Aquenimi" as I type this, I just cant see Andre Benjamin as a top 10 MC, not with the other talent out there.

Just for the record, that wasnt my official top 10 I posted, it was just 10 MC's who I think are better than Andre Benjamin.
</div>

To each his own....I just think it takes a lot more talent to drop subtle jewels than to just spit punchlines (although I like both)......when something simple can be broken down into so much that's great.....L might say something like "Ask Beavis I gettin nothing "butt" head"....which is an ill ass punchline, but you can't really break that down, because in a sense it is what it is.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree with everything you say except for WHERE IS THE LOVE FOR KWELI? In my mind he is top 10 alltime and better than Common and Black Thought (who are both still Gods of hiphop). Big L was very good, but he wouldn't even crack the top 30 alltime over guys like Kurupt and Ras Kass. Face it, he's given more props cause he's dead. It's good to see you rate Ice Cube and Andre as the great artists they are. And Ghostface is the best wu rapper, well said. how do you like Fishscale?</div>

I love Talib but he's fell off as of late, I was just listening to Beautiful Struggle a couple of weeks ago, and that album is just flat out bad.....Talib would make my top 50....but Com and Blackthought have been more consistent.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">lol, Big L wouldnt even crack the top 30 all time? and Kurupt would? LOL. He isnt given more props because he's dead, he's given props because he was good. He wasnt a political rapper, he rarely had a message, but he could rip you apart with his sick use of lyrical abilities. If you're listening to L and expecting some sort of political backing or message, then of course you're going to be dissapointed, but if you're listening to his wordplay, metaphors, multies, punches, freestyles etc. then you should be impressed</div>


L might crack top 30 on my list, the thing is like you mentioned for the most part he was a battle rapper with a good voice, lyrics, punches, etc....and that's all good because that's a huge part of the culture, but musically speaking???....nah LSPD isn't one of the greatest hip hop albums.....KRS One can battle, but he still can switch his subject matter up from time to time....all the people I listed in my top 10 I believe are well rounded and not good at just one aspect of MCing.

 

[phunDamentalz]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting THE DREAM:</div><div class="quote_post">
I love Talib but he's fell off as of late, I was just listening to Beautiful Struggle a couple of weeks ago, and that album is just flat out bad.....Talib would make my top 50....but Com and Blackthought have been more consistent.
</div>
yeah B.Struggle is a dud, but for Black Star, Reflection Eternal and Quality and all his guest appearances where he typically owns everyone in the room for me put him into the top 10. No rapper alive has made me think more than TK so that right there says a lot. The bad part is i just was walking down the street in Manhattan past a Roots/Kweli concert that just happened, people filing out. Can't believe I missed that show. From the sounds of the new stuff, Kweli is BACK. They were handing out Roots samplers for free on the street so i grabbed one.

 

[NTC]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting THE DREAM:</div><div class="quote_post">To each his own....I just think it takes a lot more talent to drop subtle jewels than to just spit punchlines (although I like both)......when something simple can be broken down into so much that's great.....L might say something like "Ask Beavis I gettin nothing "butt" head"....which is an ill ass punchline, but you can't really break that down, because in a sense it is what it is.</div>

My point is this, take "Candy Shop" by 50 Cent, the verse "I'll take you to the Candy Shop" in particular, now I can just sit here and pick apart why I think its a good verse, but that verse only becomes good once I do that. A good verse should hit you straight away, straight from the artists mouth.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting THE DREAM:</div><div class="quote_post">L might crack top 30 on my list, the thing is like you mentioned for the most part he was a battle rapper with a good voice, lyrics, punches, etc....and that's all good because that's a huge part of the culture, but musically speaking???....nah LSPD isn't one of the greatest hip hop albums.....KRS One can battle, but he still can switch his subject matter up from time to time....all the people I listed in my top 10 I believe are well rounded and not good at just one aspect of MCing.</div>

I didnt say L was a battle rapper, I cant even remember seeing or hearing about L battling anyone. He was excellent at all the aspects that make a great MC, he just didnt come at you with any political messages or anything like that.

 

[hustler]

Good thing it was only a rumour..and you can't blame them, Andre has been taking the acting business for some time now. Outkast is one of my fav groups, and I can't wait to get the new CD.

 

[The Dream]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">My point is this, take "Candy Shop" by 50 Cent, the verse "I'll take you to the Candy Shop" in particular, now I can just sit here and pick apart why I think its a good verse, but that verse only becomes good once I do that. A good verse should hit you straight away, straight from the artists mouth.

lol man you can't compare 50 Cent's lyricism to Andre 3000...it's not even close

You could have it your way
How do you want it?
You gonna back that thing up or should I push up on it?
Temperature rising, ok
Let's go to the next level
Dance floor jam packed, hot as a tea kettle
I break it down for you now, baby it's simple
If you be a nympho, I be a nympho
In the hotel or in the back of the rental
On the beach or in the park, it's whatever you into
Got the magic stick, I'm the love doctor
Have your friends teaching you about how strong I got you
When you show me what you working baby, No problem
Get on top, get your bounce around like a low rider
I'm a seasoned vet, when it come to this ****
After you work up a sweat, you could play with the stick
I'm trying to explain baby, the best way I can
I melt in your mouth girl, not in your hand</div>

there isn't any kind of depth to be broken down in that verse

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I didnt say L was a battle rapper, I cant even remember seeing or hearing about L battling anyone. He was excellent at all the aspects that make a great MC, he just didnt come at you with any political messages or anything like that.</div>

L for the most part was a braggadocious battle rapper....to quote KRS One "anybody can battle for glory/ but to kick a rhyme to wake up ya people is another story"....L was great, but he just wasn't deep enough for my taste.

 

[B.e.]

Hollywood Divorce is nice!

Dre kills it!

 

[NTC]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting THE DREAM:</div><div class="quote_post">lol man you can't compare 50 Cent's lyricism to Andre 3000...it's not even close</div>

Well obviously, but my point is, you can make any old verse have meaning if you sit there and pick it apart like the one you had to do that I was refering to. A great verse shouldnt have to be picked apart for it to have true meaning.

As for the second part of your post, i'll drop it, its your opinion after all, and I highly doubt my views are going to change it.

 

[The Dream]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well obviously, but my point is, you can make any old verse have meaning if you sit there and pick it apart like the one you had to do that I was refering to. A great verse shouldnt have to be picked apart for it to have true meaning.
</div>

lol, no you can't there is nothing to pick apart in that candy shop verse.....I can do the same thing that I did with Andre's verse with Nas, Rakim, KRS One, Common, etc. who all drop A LOT of subtle jewels of knowledge....they are all lyricists.....50 Cent is a rapper who writes catchy hooks.......no comparison....I never said all great verses have to be picked apart to have true meanings, but a MC that can have hidden and deeper meanings in their songs are extremely gifted........prime example "One Mic" by Nas...in the 2nd verse Nas is talking about his career as an MC, he doesn't come out and say it, but if you really decipher his rhymes to get the point of that song.