Lost in all your simplistic and ignorant blaming of Collins

[furnace]

the National Favoritism League.</p>

Mlourning was pulling and elbowing like usual, and Wade getting to the line 20 times to Jefferson's 11?</p>

And that touch foul on Wade called against Wright was rediculous...there was no touch!</p>

And of course, the last play, where RJ was hacked, goaltended, THEN HACKED AGAIN ON THE REBOUND ATTEMPT BY 3 HEAT PLAYERS!!!</p>

Hornets game? Officiating was fine. Nets just sucked. This game? I put squarely on the shoulders of the officiating. It wasn't the biggest difference, but in the end, it was the most important.</p>

</p>

 

[GMJ]

There were times that fouls on Nets players weren't called, but there were also a couple of times where fouls by Nets players weren't called either. Sean got away with one on Shaq, off the top of my head.</p>

I thought they did a fair job in the fourth quarter by letting players on both sides get away with the small stuff, it just so happens that one of the Heat's small stuff could have given us the game.</p>

 

[pegs]

Hardaway was holding RJ the whole game, especially on that last play. I was surprised he didn't get called for it.</p>

 

[purplehaze89]

RJ missed a gimme layup. Even he knew he wasn't fouled or goaltended on. Please stop this madness.</p>

 

[Jizzy]

RJ and Collins fucked up. For 6 mil a year, Collins better be in there working on his FTs.</p>

 

[zєяσ]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (phoenixmolochia89)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

RJ missed a gimme layup. Even he knew he wasn't fouled or goaltended on. Please stop this madness.</p>

</div></p>

Thank you. And quite honestly all I saw was a goaltending (which I heard was extremeley hard to see in real time) on Haslem in the replay, not a foul.</p>

</p>

I didnt have my complete attention for the fourth quarter, but I heard Collins had one or two good defensive plays at the end(well according to a friend). Something about taking a charge foul by Wade and something else(???). But sigh, cmon Collins, make your freethrows.</p>

</p>

 

[Dark Defender]

RJ did not get fouled at the end, I thought he was too but I rewinded using the power of Dvr and no one touched him. Collins misses a gimme dunk and two FT's and you want to blame the refs, nice.</p>

 

[Aurelino]

The league has been like that for a long-long time. No use crying about it now. If the Nets did what they were supposed to, they would have won the game regardless. i didn't see a foul on RJ, although Haslem did grab the rim. RJ should have made the layup anyway. It wasn't that hard.</p>

 

[Jizzy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GM3)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

RJ did not get fouled at the end, I thought he was too but I rewinded using the power of Dvr and no one touched him. Collins misses a gimme dunk and two FT's and you want to blame the refs, nice.</p>

</div></p>

</p>

I don't understand how Collins gets a free pass for every game coster he makes. First the Hornets game and now this, he misses two chances.</p>

It's mind boggling how horrible Collins production is. Shooting in the 20%, grabbing under 3 rpg, scoring 1 pt. a game, if even that. Christ, is that the worst big man production ever or what.</p>

 

[Jizzy]

BTw guys, the nets shot 38 Fts while the Heat shot 29.</p>

 

[JCB]

RJ himself said "I should have made it" while being interviewed after the game. No excuses. It was a lay-up, and he should have made it regardless.</p>

 

[purplehaze89]

Well Collins and RJ are original Nets. They are the last vestiges of our glorious 2002-2003 years. They are true winners and can do no wrong. The refs suck compared to them.</p>

 

[Dumpy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GM3)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

RJ did not get fouled at the end, I thought he was too but I rewinded using the power of Dvr and no one touched him. Collins misses a gimme dunk and two FT's and you want to blame the refs, nice.</p>

</div></p>

</p>

I don't understand how Collins gets a free pass for every game coster he makes. First the Hornets game and now this, he misses two chances.</p>

It's mind boggling how horrible Collins production is. Shooting in the 20%, grabbing under 3 rpg, scoring 1 pt. a game, if even that. Christ, is that the worst big man production ever or what.</p>

</div></p>

he is what he is, which happens to be better than Cliff Robinson and Josh Boone were last year, better than Magoire, Malik Allen, and Boone this year (and temporarily Krstic, although obviously that'll change at some point). If you're going to pass blame, blame those guys for being SO bad that they won't even be in the game instead of Collins. Magloire has more turnovers than assists, steals plus blocks--thats Eddy Curry territory.Not to mention he's hitting 18% of his field goals.</p>

So, you should be whining:</p>

Collins sucks!</p>

Collins > Magloire/Allen/Boone!</p>

</p>

 

[furnace]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GM3)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

RJ did not get fouled at the end, I thought he was too but I rewinded using the power of Dvr and no one touched him. Collins misses a gimme dunk and two FT's and you want to blame the refs, nice.</p>

</div></p>

</p>

The refs were simply not consistent. The foul they called on Collins at 87-85 was complete bullshit. Collins jumped to the side, there was no contact. Mark Jackson said Collins was called for "knee" contact. That is bullshit.

What about the play where Shaw hit Kidd in the face and Kidd was left holding his nose under the basket? You could clearly see that in the replay.

Also, at 1:44 left, RJ drives the lane and gets hit across the arms by Ricky Davis' left arm, while Penny Hardaway's right hand pulls down RJ's left arm. That's 2 fouls that the refs chose not to call.

At 1:10 left, Dwyane Wade looks like he stole the ball out of bounds. But in the replay, you can see that Haslem hip checked Kidd. You can tell that Mark Jackson is wrong when he said the Heat went straight up because you can see Haslem's head move from left to right in relation to the basket. That proves he was moving in Kidd's direction.

And gimme dunk for Collins with 28.2 seconds left? I'd like to see you dunk with Haslem's left hand coming across your arms and right hand pushing you in the back.

Finally, on the last play, in addition to Haslem's hand on the rim, Mourning's right forearm hits RJ's head. You can see his head compress into his shoulders. That should have been a 3 point play.


Plain and simple. Yes, blame Collins for missing 2 free throws. But don't forget that he stopped Shaq's last 2 shot attempts and Mourning's last shot attempt. That is 6 points saved.

 

[NOMAM]

The replay did show Mourning grazing RJ across the head and Haslem hitting up on the rim and the ref was right infront of the play where it happened. After the play Kidd and Frank were arguing with the ref at mid court and you can hear the ref say " I didn't see no contact"</p>

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NOMAM)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

The replay did show Mourning grazing RJ across the head and Haslem hitting up on the rim and the ref was right infront of the play where it happened. After the play Kidd and Frank were arguing with the ref at mid court and you can hear the ref say " I didn't see no contact"</p>

</div></p>

</p>

Ah, so he was agreeing with Kidd and Frank. Hm.</p>

What an asshole. I bet Riley or Mourning paid him off.</p>

 

[zєяσ]

sure, blame the refs instead of RJ missing the gimme layup.</p>

</p>

The Nets had a chance to tie the game and blew it.</p>

 

[Jizzy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GM3)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

RJ did not get fouled at the end, I thought he was too but I rewinded using the power of Dvr and no one touched him. Collins misses a gimme dunk and two FT's and you want to blame the refs, nice.</p>

</div></p>

</p>

I don't understand how Collins gets a free pass for every game coster he makes. First the Hornets game and now this, he misses two chances.</p>

It's mind boggling how horrible Collins production is. Shooting in the 20%, grabbing under 3 rpg, scoring 1 pt. a game, if even that. Christ, is that the worst big man production ever or what.</p>

</div></p>

he is what he is, which happens to be better than Cliff Robinson and Josh Boone were last year, better than Magoire, Malik Allen, and Boone this year (and temporarily Krstic, although obviously that'll change at some point). If you're going to pass blame, blame those guys for being SO bad that they won't even be in the game instead of Collins. Magloire has more turnovers than assists, steals plus blocks--thats Eddy Curry territory.Not to mention he's hitting 18% of his field goals.</p>

So, you should be whining:</p>

Collins sucks!</p>

Collins > Magloire/Allen/Boone!</p>

</p>

</div></p>

</p>

Magloire has still outrebounded Collins. I do pass the blame onto those guys, hence my Frontcourt threads BUT, they ar enot the ones screwing up during crucial parts of the game and they are not being loved by Frank.</p>

 

[Universe]

Collins isour main stopperto Shaq yet he still got his second highest point total of the season.</p>

 

[zєяσ]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

Collins isour main stopperto Shaq yet he still got his second highest point total of the season.</p>

</div></p>

</p>

Not rying to sound witty or like an ass, but exactly how many minutes did Collins play?</p>

</p>

Was he on Shaq for most of the game or was it the starter Magloire?</p>

</p>

(I ask cuz i did not see the entire game)</p>

</p>

 

[Universe]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

Collins isour main stopperto Shaq yet he still got his second highest point total of the season.</p>

</div></p>

</p>

Not rying to sound witty or like an ass, but exactly how many minutes did Collins play?</p>

</p>

Was he on Shaq for most of the game or was it the starter Magloire?</p>

</p>

(I ask cuz i did not see the entire game)</p>

</p>

</div></p>

Magloire was on him the first half pretty much and IMO, kept him pretty much in check while Collins seem to get most of the ride in the second half where I believe Shaq really hurt us.</p>

 

[Dumpy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

Collins isour main stopperto Shaq yet he still got his second highest point total of the season.</p>

</div></p>

</p>

Universe, I think you're a good guy, and I find amny of your posts insightful. However, I have a problem with posts like that, because it implies that Collins is at fault--or at least did nothing beneficial--and it is based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever. If you took ten minutes to look at the game log, you'd see that, during the roughly seven minutes that Collins was in the game at the same time as Shaq, Shaq was 1-3 from the field, with two rebounds (one offensive). He was also 3-4 from the line--one trip due to a Collins foul and one to a Sean Williams foul. So, when Collins was NOT in the game, Shaq was 5-9 in 18 minutes.</p>

You'd also see that Mourning completely dominated when Magloire was in the game. I'll let you add that up.</p>

</p>

 

[Universe]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

Collins isour main stopperto Shaq yet he still got his second highest point total of the season.</p>

</div></p>

</p>

Universe, I think you're a good guy, and I find amny of your posts insightful. However, I have a problem with posts like that, because it implies that Collins is at fault--or at least did nothing beneficial--and it is based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever. If you took ten minutes to look at the game log, you'd see that, during the roughly seven minutes that Collins was in the game at the same time as Shaq, Shaq was 1-3 from the field, with two rebounds (one offensive). He was also 3-4 from the line--one trip due to a Collins foul and one to a Sean Williams foul. So, when Collins was NOT in the game, Shaq was 5-9 in 18 minutes.</p>

You'd also see that Mourning completely dominated when Magloire was in the game. I'll let you add that up.</p>

</p>

</div></p>

Oh by no means am I putting the blame on Collins fully. Turnovers crushed us like a bug. Also not being able to gaurd three point land allowing a rookie and a 40 year old wash up expose us really did us in. Collins more or less hurts himself due to the lack of scoring which is why he cannot get playing time over a rookie because the rookie is finding his way.</p>

You also got to see those free throws assome of the blame, no?That's what really frustrates me.</p>

</p>

 

[Dumpy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

Collins isour main stopperto Shaq yet he still got his second highest point total of the season.</p>

</div></p>

</p>

Universe, I think you're a good guy, and I find amny of your posts insightful. However, I have a problem with posts like that, because it implies that Collins is at fault--or at least did nothing beneficial--and it is based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever. If you took ten minutes to look at the game log, you'd see that, during the roughly seven minutes that Collins was in the game at the same time as Shaq, Shaq was 1-3 from the field, with two rebounds (one offensive). He was also 3-4 from the line--one trip due to a Collins foul and one to a Sean Williams foul. So, when Collins was NOT in the game, Shaq was 5-9 in 18 minutes.</p>

You'd also see that Mourning completely dominated when Magloire was in the game. I'll let you add that up.</p>

</p>

</div></p>

Oh by no means am I putting the blame on Collins fully. Turnovers crushed us like a bug. Also not being able to gaurd three point land allowing a rookie and a 40 year old wash up expose us really did us in. Collins more or less hurts himself due to the lack of scoring which is why he cannot get playing time over a rookie because the rookie is finding his way.</p>

You also got to see those free throws assome of the blame, no?That's what really frustrates me.</p>

</div></p>

I think the difference here is that I don't see Collins and Sean as mutually exclusive. If you take it as a given that Collins will play 15 minutes a game, who do you want on the court with him? Kidd, Carter, RJ, Sean, and Collins!</p>

 

[furnace]

This board is the same as the other. People are falling over themselves to blame Collins no matter what has really happened during the game.</p>

Either way, the point is that the horrible officiating is what ultimately cost the Nets the game, not RJ's missed layup.</p>

 

[Kid Chocolate]

The inevitable first, 'I blame the Refs' topic. Awesome.</p>

 

[GMJ]

The refs came along and made us throw the ball away 20+ times?</p>

</p>

....DONAUGHY!!!!!!!</p>

 

[jarkid]

The truth is I never see Collins's merits are much bigger than his flaws and leads us to win the games.</p>

In this season, his crucial turnovers cost us some games.</p>

 

[jarkid]

I prefer see</p>

Kidd, Carter, RJ, Sean, Krstic or Kidd, Carter, RJ, Sean, Magloire.</p>

You want to see Collins ? Of course, but he will come from the bench.</p>

Magloire could handle Shaq, too. Magloire is a underrated low-post defender.</p>

 

[Jizzy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (furnace)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

This board is the same as the other. People are falling over themselves to blame Collins no matter what has really happened during the game.</p>

Either way, the point is that the horrible officiating is what ultimately cost the Nets the game, not RJ's missed layup.</p>

</div></p>

</p>

</p>

The nets shot more FTs then the Heat!!! You blame the refs for eveything.</p>