Malcolm Brogdon trade ideas

[Natebishop3]

The idea that we don't get another blue chip prospect because we can possibly be a first round out this season is asinine. What in the actual fuck are we doing here? This is a rebuild... a youth rebuild. We should leverage Jerami and Malcolm for assets that will be at their most viable when Scoot and Shae are playoff series winning components.

The good news is I think Joe is going to get the most he can for those guys and tank this one last season.

At least someone else gets it.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

At least someone else gets it.

If, as you state, this team isn't good enough to be competitive, even with its best players healthy, then whether or not we trade Grant and/or Brogdon will have little-to-no effect on the likelihood of procuring another blue-chip talent.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

I don't think we should trade Ayton. I don't think we should trade Thybulle. I don't think we should trade Grant necessarily. I don't think we need a 30 year old point guard when we have three young guards who need the ball. I'm fine with rebuilding for this year and next year.

Not with you on Thybulle. He just does not seem to like it here or fit.

I would pause on throwing three young guards into the deep end. Simons is still hurt, Sharpe looks hurt, and Henderson is looking pretty rough. This team has many players to develop and think we are going to be fighting for wins all season. Cronin and Billups have shown they can fire up the tank when necessary.

 

[Pinwheel1]

But I would venture to say that a Simons/Brogdon/Camara/Grant/Ayton starting lineup would absolutely be "competitive" game in and game out, and Scoot and Sharpe could still get plenty of valuable development time, even in reserve roles.

Agree. Like you said we don't know that for sure because we have yet to see them together, but once Ant is fully healthy, my gut says those 5 will fit well together. I think an argument could be made to start Sharpe instead of Camara, but me personally I would mix it up and give them both a chance to start depending on the opponent. Either way, Sharpe will get minutes at SG and SF.....they are not that different and Sharpe is proving to be a decent rebounder.

 

[blazerfan11]

Not with you on Thybulle. He just does not seem to like it here or fit.

I would pause on throwing three young guards into the deep end. Simons is still hurt, Sharpe looks hurt, and Henderson is looking pretty rough. This team has many players to develop and think we are going to be fighting for wins all season. Cronin and Billups have shown they can fire up the tank when necessary.

Thybulle has become a very good disruptor off the bench.
In the last two games, when Thybulle and Scoot come in, scoreboard deficits have reversed.
In the Milwaukee game that reversal turned into a huge lead.

 

[Natebishop3]

If, as you state, this team isn't good enough to be competitive, even with its best players healthy, then whether or not we trade Grant and/or Brogdon will have little-to-no effect on the likelihood of procuring another blue-chip talent.

Being competitive for the 8th or 9th spot isn’t being competitive. It means you’re mediocre and I don’t want to be mediocre right now. There’s no point. This is the time while Scoot and Shae and Camara are young and learning. This is when you give them minutes because you don’t care if you win or lose. I get that you guys want to win games because it makes you feel good, but the true goal for this season is to see what we have. We don’t need to see what Malcolm Brogdon is. We know what he is. The league knows what he is. Playing our vets a bunch of minutes so that we can steal a few wins is just pointless.

 

[blazerkor]

If, as you state, this team isn't good enough to be competitive, even with its best players healthy, then whether or not we trade Grant and/or Brogdon will have little-to-no effect on the likelihood of procuring another blue-chip talent.

No, we'll be competitive enough to end up with our pick in the 7-10 range... I'd just much much rather have a pick around 1-3 and a bunch of other assets that we get in return for Grant and Brogdon that actually help our rebuild. The idea for me is that we are trying to be elite contenders in 4 or 5 seasons instead of being below average now and just above average then and for the foreseeable future.

 

[blazerkor]

Being competitive for the 8th or 9th spot isn’t being competitive. It means you’re mediocre and I don’t want to be mediocre right now. There’s no point. This is the time while Scoot and Shae and Camara are young and learning. This is when you give them minutes because you don’t care if you win or lose. I get that you guys want to win games because it makes you feel good, but the true goal for this season is to see what we have. We don’t need to see what Malcolm Brogdon is. We know what he is. The league knows what he is. Playing our vets a bunch of minutes so that we can steal a few wins is just pointless.

It's more than just pointless it's counterproductive. It means less experience for the guys we're trying to build around and it means diminishing draft returns.

I do not mind playing Jerami and Malcolm a bunch right now because they're proving to the rest of the league to be very very effective starters. I don't mind featuring them to increase trade value even if it means a few less wins because we've shown that this team knows how to tank. I think we'll likely have about seven to ten more wins between now and the trade deadline and that should give us plenty of room to end up as a bottom 3 team with a handful of other assets that make sense with Shae and Scoot from trading Jerami and Malcolm.

 

[blazerfan11]

Anthony Edwards' team never went for the tank after drafting him.

They did give away a lot in the win-now trade for Gobert, which is the opposite of what the Tankers want.

Now that team is in first place in the Western Conference with a 13-4 record.

Compare Anthony Edwards story to Cade Cunningham, another #1 pick. Cade is a talented, big point guard playing for a dumpster fire.

 

[blazerkor]

Anthony Edwards' team never went for the tank after drafting him.

They did give away a lot in the win-now trade for Gobert, which is the opposite of what the Tankers want.

Now that team is in first place in the Western Conference with a 13-4 record.

Compare Anthony Edwards story to Cade Cunningham, another #1 pick. Cade is a talented, big point guard playing for a dumpster fire.

Riiight... you left out the part about Anthony Edwards being drafted by a team with an established all-nba player.

That being said what we want as fans doesn't matter. I think Joe has shown his commitment to attaining very high draft picks the last two seasons, there is no reason to think that commitment is about to wane after we gave up our franchise player. I guess we'll see in a couple months but my guess based on everything Joe has done since becoming GM is that because win now players are more valuable to win now teams than they are to a team rebuilding, our win now guys who aren't really young (Jerami and Malcolm) will be gone because they have more value elsewhere.

 

[blazerfan11]

It's more than just pointless it's counterproductive. It means less experience for the guys we're trying to build around and it means diminishing draft returns.

I do not mind playing Jerami and Malcolm a bunch right now because they're proving to the rest of the league to be very very effective starters. I don't mind featuring them to increase trade value even if it means a few less wins because we've shown that this team knows how to tank. I think we'll likely have about seven to ten more wins between now and the trade deadline and that should give us plenty of room to end up as a bottom 3 team with a handful of other assets that make sense with Shae and Scoot from trading Jerami and Malcolm.

22-year-old Anthony Edwards is playing alongside 36-year-old Mike Conley.

That's a 14-year difference in age.

Conley averages 29 minutes a game.

Minnesota is in first place.

I won't put words in anyone's mouth's but it feels like some people think that is an impossibility.

I'm not saying to trade or not to trade Grant and Brogdan. But to outright say that they can't be part of the future is ridiculous.

 

[blazerfan11]

Riiight... you left out the part about Anthony Edwards being drafted by a team with an established all-nba player.

That being said what we want as fans doesn't matter. I think Joe has shown his commitment to attaining very high draft picks the last two seasons, there is no reason to think that commitment is about to wane after we gave up our franchise player. I guess we'll see in a couple months but my guess based on everything Joe has done since becoming GM is that because win now players are more valuable to win now teams than they are to a team rebuilding, our win now guys who aren't really young (Jerami and Malcolm) will be gone because they have more value elsewhere.

Perhaps what Joe does is dependent on how the team is playing, so it's not something that's decided at this point.

 

[blazerkor]

22-year-old Anthony Edwards is playing alongside 36-year-old Mike Conley.

That's a 14-year difference in age.

Conley averages 29 minutes a game.

Minnesota is in first place.

I won't put words in anyone's mouth's but it feels like some people think that is an impossibility.

I'm not saying to trade or not to trade Grant and Brogdan. But to outright say that they can't be part of the future is ridiculous.

Again, cool story but it's not our situation because they are building around KAT and Edwards. KAT is younger and far more valuable than either of the guys I'm saying that we should and most likely will trade. The fact that they added pieces like Mike Conley and Rudy Gobert to KAT and Edwards once they knew what they had in those two players again is a far far different situation than what we are facing.

We don't have an established all nba player who is in his mid 20s like Minny did when they drafted Edwards, if we did of course we would keep complementary starters like Grant and Brogdon because we'd be looking to win it all in the next couple of seasons instead of positioning ourselves to do that in half a decade.

You don't have to put words in my mouth, there's no fucking way that we'll be in first place in the western conference in the next couple of years.

 

[blazerkor]

Perhaps what Joe does is dependent on how the team is playing, so it's not something that's decided at this point.

Yeah, I could very well be wrong in my estimation that Joe will look to the future when this trade deadline rolls around just because he did that with far more established talent in both of the past two seasons.

 

[BIG Q]

My thoughts are that Grant and Brogdon are enjoying "being the man" on a bad team trying to develop a few young players. I doubt they will enjoy not "being the man" once the young guys actually develop and "become the man" in their own right. But when that happens, say three years, Grant and Brogdon will have far less value. Best to move them to teams that need them and get value when they are at their highest. With the assets they get in trade Portland can round out the roster and fill holes. They will have cap space, picks and hopefully be on the rise. They could overpay for a star if needed.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

No, we'll be competitive enough to end up with our pick in the 7-10 range... I'd just much much rather have a pick around 1-3 and a bunch of other assets that we get in return for Grant and Brogdon that actually help our rebuild. The idea for me is that we are trying to be elite contenders in 4 or 5 seasons instead of being below average now and just above average then and for the foreseeable future.

To be clear, I'm not opposed to trading Grant and Brogdon. I just want the team to make an effort to be as good as they can be with the players they have. If that results in the team being good enough to be play-in quality, then I'll be grateful for the experience our youngsters will gain in the process.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Being competitive for the 8th or 9th spot isn’t being competitive. It means you’re mediocre and I don’t want to be mediocre right now. There’s no point. This is the time while Scoot and Shae and Camara are young and learning. This is when you give them minutes because you don’t care if you win or lose. I get that you guys want to win games because it makes you feel good, but the true goal for this season is to see what we have. We don’t need to see what Malcolm Brogdon is. We know what he is. The league knows what he is. Playing our vets a bunch of minutes so that we can steal a few wins is just pointless.

This entire post is full of statements based on incorrect assumptions about other people's thoughts, wants, and hopes. Such a post has no content worth responding to.

 

[Natebishop3]

22-year-old Anthony Edwards is playing alongside 36-year-old Mike Conley.

That's a 14-year difference in age.

Conley averages 29 minutes a game.

Minnesota is in first place.

I won't put words in anyone's mouth's but it feels like some people think that is an impossibility.

I'm not saying to trade or not to trade Grant and Brogdan. But to outright say that they can't be part of the future is ridiculous.

Do they have a prized rookie point guard that Conley is playing over? And does Conley have even remotely the same value at this point that Brogdon has? I also said in another post that we could get a less valuable veteran to serve the mentor role. That’s what Conley is. He’s not as good as Brogdon at this point.

 

[riverman]

In my view we have mostly young guys on this team and the way to teach them to win is to have them play with winners. Grant and Brogdan are going to be huge in the development of Scoot and Walker and Camara and Murray ...Scoot is talented but far from franchise pt guard ready yet. I like him coming off the bench. If you fill this team exclusively with kids, they'll get beat so bad they'll lose confidence in my view. My wish is to trade Ant...that's how Scoot and Shaedon get more experience. You can already see how much respect Ayton has for Grant and Brogdan. Those guys are the glue of this team right now. Two of our biggest impact rookies are bottom of the barrel second rounders...nobody saw that coming

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

This team isn't good enough to be competitive for a playin or playoff spot even if we play our veterans 40 minutes per night. So giving up minutes that should go to our young guys just so we can keep a guy in his 30s and maybe snag a few extra wins is counter productive.

I 100% disagree. This team as is, if fully healthy, sure looks like a playin team to me. Combine that with the growth of our youth, i see no reason why we cant be contending in two to three years with a couple good moves. That may be moving the vets then, but i see no reason to move them now for picks. We have picks down the road. We need talent around the youth now so they maintain a winning mentality.
I think the real value in Grant and Brogdon are what they can teach Scoot/Sharpe/Camara.
I want that education to go on for another year or two.
Can other vets do this? Sure, but if those mentors are already on the roster why keep shuffling deck chairs right now? Let them grow for a year or to, then go all in if the youth does indeed blossom.

you mentioned their value will decline. I dont think so. The contracts will be shorter. I think it will offset any decline the players may have in two years. Much easier to trade a shorter contract than a longer one.

 

[Hoopguru]

If you look at some of the younger teams that are doing well finally, its because they have added a few solid vets to help coach basically and be locker room dudes.

 

[PCmor7]

At least someone else gets it.

He gets the idea. The problem is the idea is riddled with flaws.

The idea with teams is to put talent together that has chemistry so that you can win. Not just to accumulate prospects.

Now, that doesn't mean you don't trade players like Brogdon and Grant under any circumstances, but you only trade them if you are getting appropriate compensation. Their presence on the team is measured in more than just the wins and current stats but what knowledge and comfortability they can pass along to the young players the Blazers eventually are counting on to win.

Look how long it took the Sixers to even have a winning team doing the kind of rebuild you're suggesting. Or the Thunder. The Thunder are trending in the right direction, but they still haven't had a winning season or reached the round of 16 since they traded Paul George and then Chris Paul. The Sixers haven't even reached the Eastern Conference semis since The Process began even though it brought them an annual MVP candidate.

Team-building's a lot more than who has the most toys.

 

[PCmor7]

Again, cool story but it's not our situation because they are building around KAT and Edwards. KAT is younger and far more valuable than either of the guys I'm saying that we should and most likely will trade. The fact that they added pieces like Mike Conley and Rudy Gobert to KAT and Edwards once they knew what they had in those two players again is a far far different situation than what we are facing.

We don't have an established all nba player who is in his mid 20s like Minny did when they drafted Edwards, if we did of course we would keep complementary starters like Grant and Brogdon because we'd be looking to win it all in the next couple of seasons instead of positioning ourselves to do that in half a decade.

How does this apply to the Blazers? They aren't building around Brogdon or Grant.

 

[Pinwheel1]

In my view we have mostly young guys on this team and the way to teach them to win is to have them play with winners. Grant and Brogdan are going to be huge in the development of Scoot and Walker and Camara and Murray ...Scoot is talented but far from franchise pt guard ready yet. I like him coming off the bench. If you fill this team exclusively with kids, they'll get beat so bad they'll lose confidence in my view. My wish is to trade Ant...that's how Scoot and Shaedon get more experience. You can already see how much respect Ayton has for Grant and Brogdan. Those guys are the glue of this team right now. Two of our biggest impact rookies are bottom of the barrel second rounders...nobody saw that coming

I agree with everything you said, however, the "trade Simons" part only makes sense to me if they get a good young forward back in return. Otherwise, you keep him because he still provides a skill that we need. (Plus the depth is nice to have when injuries occur-and they always do) A non-lottery pick and an ending contract are not enough. I would even sweeten the pot if the right forward was available by offering Ant and a pick. But quality young 2-way forwards are hard to come by in a trade so I don't see it happening.

 

[Natebishop3]

He gets the idea. The problem is the idea is riddled with flaws.

The idea with teams is to put talent together that has chemistry so that you can win. Not just to accumulate prospects.

Now, that doesn't mean you don't trade players like Brogdon and Grant under any circumstances, but you only trade them if you are getting appropriate compensation. Their presence on the team is measured in more than just the wins and current stats but what knowledge and comfortability they can pass along to the young players the Blazers eventually are counting on to win.

Look how long it took the Sixers to even have a winning team doing the kind of rebuild you're suggesting. Or the Thunder. The Thunder are trending in the right direction, but they still haven't had a winning season or reached the round of 16 since they traded Paul George and then Chris Paul. The Sixers haven't even reached the Eastern Conference semis since The Process began even though it brought them an annual MVP candidate.

Team-building's a lot more than who has the most toys.

But why do we want that? What possible reason is there for this team to push for a playin and lose out on a high draft pick? I'm not saying we should tank, but I'm also not saying we should be playing our veterans big minutes to try to win games. Tanking is when you're deliberately playing inferior players with the intention of losing games. I want to play young players so that they develop faster. Those are not the same things.

 

[Pinwheel1]

But why do we want that? What possible reason is there for this team to push for a playin and lose out on a high draft pick? I'm not saying we should tank, but I'm also not saying we should be playing our veterans big minutes to try to win games. Tanking is when you're deliberately playing inferior players with the intention of losing games. I want to play young players so that they develop faster. Those are not the same things.

Sharpe leads the team in minutes. (36.5) Scoot averages 26 minutes a game. Camara averages 25 minutes per game.
Yes, Simons will cut into those minutes IF every guard is healthy but I am not worried that they will not get enough minutes to develop over the long season.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

But why do we want that? What possible reason is there for this team to push for a playin and lose out on a high draft pick? I'm not saying we should tank, but I'm also not saying we should be playing our veterans big minutes to try to win games. Tanking is when you're deliberately playing inferior players with the intention of losing games. I want to play young players so that they develop faster. Those are not the same things.

experience has value. If young players don't have vets teaching them the right and wrongs, how do you think they will develop faster?

They seem to be developing fine as is overall. How much more development xan happen between 25-35 minutes a game?

how much more development comes from winning and making a playin? I think more than 10 more minutes a game.

 

[riverman]

I think with Brogdan and Grant you give Chauncey and his staff time to put an address on defense first with the young guys and unlike Dame, not give them the green light to chuck. Get them rebounding and stealing the ball and moving it around. Grant and Brogdan are great role models for offensive momentum and end game play. When our rookies and sophmores learn to defend on a string, then give them the green light to shoot more. If this is what Chauncey is doing, I'm all for it. The reason CJ, Ant and Dame sucked on defense is they were given the green light to chuck and not held accountable on the other side of the ball. I don't want that happening to Shaedon or Scoot.

 

[Natebishop3]

experience has value. If young players don't have vets teaching them the right and wrongs, how do you think they will develop faster?

They seem to be developing fine as is overall. How much more development xan happen between 25-35 minutes a game?

how much more development comes from winning and making a playin? I think more than 10 more minutes a game.

And I have said, from the beginning, that there are other vets out there that we could get who don't have the value of Brogdon.

 

[Natebishop3]

Sharpe leads the team in minutes. (36.5) Scoot averages 26 minutes a game. Camara averages 25 minutes per game.
Yes, Simons will cut into those minutes IF every guard is healthy but I am not worried that they will not get enough minutes to develop over the long season.

If Simons is healthy, there is a going to be a major minutes crunch.