Politics Manafort goes on trial tomorrow

[yankeesince59]

Having nothing to support your implication that the judge's words somehow carry less weight (they don't), you rely on nitpicking my choice of words.

Will it make you happy if I use the term Case instead of Trial?

Either way it is in the court record as are all pre-trial motions, which then become a permanent part of the record.

...wow...I didn't "nitpick" anything...you asked for proof and I provided it.

...but now that you're in a corner you now want to change the terminology?....we've been using the term "trial" since the beginning...and now you want to change it to suit your narrative?...seriously?

..."part of the record" of a hearing is NOT part of "the trial"....do you even know what your arguing about at this point?...it doesn't appear that you do.

 

[CupWizier]

They can, if the judge determines they will be testifying on their opinion of other testimony.

It simply destroys any credibility they might have retained before doing so.

as usual, nothing to support your baseless opinions. I already posted I sat in on a trial I was a witness for. Judge rules in the Manafort case that the expert witness was allowed to be in the courtroom but here we have marisa making shit up and talking about kangaroos.

 

[yankeesince59]

They can, if the judge determines they will be testifying on their opinion of other testimony.

It simply destroys any credibility they might have retained before doing so.

...so again, you think you somehow know more about how to conduct a trial than the judge does?

 

[MARIS61]

...wow...I didn't "nitpick" anything...you asked for proof and I provided it.

...but now that you're in a corner you now want to change the terminology?....we've been using the term "trial" since the beginning...and now you want to change it to suit your narrative?...seriously?

..."part of the record" of a hearing is NOT part of "the trial"....do you even know what your arguing about at this point?...it doesn't appear that you do.

Wrong.

You are the one who used the term Trial, as if it somehow discounted other court hearings the trial depended on.

My post:
Total immunity for 22 counts = liar

Any jury can see that.

Judge Ellis has repeatedly said Meuller is abusing the justice system to smear the President, and doesn’t care about Gates or Manafort.

Your post:
...Ellis has not said that during the trial...but you already knew that, right?

If not nitpicking, what was your post meant to accomplish?

The judge said it, the judge meant it, and Real Americans already knew it.

This case is circling the drain.

 

[CupWizier]

The judge said it, the judge meant it, and Real Idiots already knew it.

The buzzards are circling Manafort.

fify

 

[yankeesince59]

Wrong.

You are the one who used the term Trial, as if it somehow discounted other court hearings the trial depended on.

My post:
Total immunity for 22 counts = liar

Any jury can see that.

Judge Ellis has repeatedly said Meuller is abusing the justice system to smear the President, and doesn’t care about Gates or Manafort.

Your post:
...Ellis has not said that during the trial...but you already knew that, right?

If not nitpicking, what was your post meant to accomplish?

The judge said it, the judge meant it, and Real Americans already knew it.

This case is circling the drain.

...still can't grasp the simple difference between a trial and a hearing, eh?

...one for time, what is said in a HEARING has NOTHING to do with the actual TRIAL.


...I have presented facts, while you have presented nothing but false bravado...like I said earlier, at this point you're simply arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

[MARIS61]

Former Federal State Prosecutor Worries About Jury Nullification In Manafort Trial

4:00

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  • Transcript
  
  August 1, 20185:40 PM ET
  Heard on All Things Considered
  
  NPR's Ailsa Chang speaks with former federal and state prosecutor Elie Honig, about why he sees Paul Manafort's trial as a referendum on the Mueller investigation, and why he's concerned about jury nullification.
  
  AILSA CHANG, HOST:
  
  This week in The Daily Beast, a pair of former prosecutors wrote this about the Manafort case - the trial inevitably will be seen as a referendum on the Mueller investigation as a whole. Elie Honig is one of the authors of that piece. He's special counsel to the law firm Lowenstein Sandler and a scholar at Rutgers. Thank you for being with us.
  
  ELIE HONIG: My pleasure.
  
  CHANG: So why do you say the stakes in this case could not be higher?
  
  HONIG: Yeah, so I look at that on two levels. First of all - for all the developments that we see every day, let's not lose sight of the fact that we have the former campaign manager for the president of the United States being tried in federal court for tens of millions of dollars' worth of tax fraud and bank fraud. That is a huge deal, and Paul Manafort's liberty and future are at stake. If he's convicted - he's 69 years old - there's a very good chance he dies behind bars. Bigger picture, this is really the first thumbs-up or thumbs-down test for the Mueller team. This is the first time they're putting their case in front of an impartial trier of fact, the judge and the jury. And we're going to get a yes or no verdict. And so I think if they get a conviction, that's going to be an important step further, cementing the legitimacy of the Mueller team. If they don't get a conviction, and that could be an acquittal or a hung jury, then I think you're going to see the president and anyone who believes this is a, quote, "rigged witch hunt" rejoicing and celebrating.
  
  CHANG: A lot of observers say that this is going to be a slam dunk for the prosecution because there's so much evidence. But you bring up in your piece something that could derail the government's case, and that's this idea of jury nullification. Can you just briefly explain what is jury nullification?
  
  HONIG: Jury nullification happens when the jurors disregard the evidence that's been introduced at trial and the judge's legal instructions and instead decide the case based on some personal belief - some external belief that they may have, whether that's a political belief, a religious belief or just sort of a personal feeling about the case.
  
  CHANG: OK. But jury nullification is extremely rare. Do you think there could be a greater chance of jury nullification in this case because it's been so highly anticipated and so politically charged? We have the president today calling, in tweets, for an end to the Russia investigation.
  
  HONIG: Yes. Jury nullification is extremely rare. I want to make sure that point's clear. And I think jury nullification is at a higher likelihood in a high-profile case and especially here. This is about as high-profile as it gets.
  
  CHANG: Well, how about you? Do you have personal experience with this? I mean, have you had a case where you were pretty sure one juror nullified?
  
  HONIG: I have. About 10 years ago, I was tasked with doing the fourth trial of John Gotti Jr. here in New York City. He had been tried three times previously, and each time the jury hung. A few years later, he was charged again, and I tried that case against John Gotti Jr. And the jury hung 6-6. And at the end, we got to talk to the jurors. And the jurors who were for acquittal essentially said, yeah, we don't doubt that he was guilty. We just think it's unfair to try someone four times. So essentially...
  
  CHANG: Oh, yeah.
  
  HONIG: ...What that jury did was say, OK, the evidence may make out this guy's guilt, but we have a belief - a personal belief - about, basically, the overall fairness of the system.
  
  CHANG: You've already mentioned that there's a possibility of a hung jury. If there were a hung jury in this case, what are the broader implications for the Mueller investigation? Would that be really damaging?
  
  HONIG: I think a hung jury would be seen as pretty much an - akin to an acquittal. Technically, a hung jury is a tie, and almost always those cases are retried. But a hung jury is - make no mistake - is a loss for the prosecutor. I've had a hung jury. It hurts. If you ask a defense lawyer, will you take a hung jury? Ninety-nine times out of a hundred, they'll say absolutely. And a hung jury here would be - I would predict that the president and others would gloat about a jury refused to convict. They didn't acquit. OK, but they refused to convict based on Mueller's evidence.
  
  CHANG: Elie Honig is a former federal and state prosecutor. Thank you very much.
  
  HONIG: You're welcome. Anytime.
  
  Copyright © 2018 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.
  

 

[MARIS61]

...still can't grasp the simple difference between a trial and a hearing, eh?

...one for time, what is said in a HEARING has NOTHING to do with the actual TRIAL.


...I have presented facts, while you have presented nothing but false bravado...like I said earlier, at this point you're simply arguing for the sake of arguing.

Hearing DETERMINES if a trial even takes place, and is attached to trial record. Motions decided in pre-trial hearings shape the rules of the trial, and often strongly influence the outcome.

Own up. You're a nitpicker.

Try this:

 

[yankeesince59]

Hearing DETERMINES if a trial even takes place, and is attached to trial record. Motions decided in pre-trial hearings shape the rules of the trial, and often strongly influence the outcome.

Own up. You're a nitpicker.

lol...a "hearing determines if a trial even takes place"?...well no shit, thanx for the update...like I've already pointed out, neither witnesses nor the jury are present during the HEARING.


...how many times must this be pointed out to you ?




...n/m, I think I've wasted quite enough time on you for one night.

 

[CupWizier]

Former Federal State Prosecutor Worries About Jury Nullification In Manafort Trial

4:00

• Download
  • Transcript
  
  August 1, 20185:40 PM ET
  Heard on All Things Considered
  
  NPR's Ailsa Chang speaks with former federal and state prosecutor Elie Honig, about why he sees Paul Manafort's trial as a referendum on the Mueller investigation, and why he's concerned about jury nullification.
  
  AILSA CHANG, HOST:
  
  This week in The Daily Beast, a pair of former prosecutors wrote this about the Manafort case - the trial inevitably will be seen as a referendum on the Mueller investigation as a whole. Elie Honig is one of the authors of that piece. He's special counsel to the law firm Lowenstein Sandler and a scholar at Rutgers. Thank you for being with us.
  
  ELIE HONIG: My pleasure.
  
  CHANG: So why do you say the stakes in this case could not be higher?
  
  HONIG: Yeah, so I look at that on two levels. First of all - for all the developments that we see every day, let's not lose sight of the fact that we have the former campaign manager for the president of the United States being tried in federal court for tens of millions of dollars' worth of tax fraud and bank fraud. That is a huge deal, and Paul Manafort's liberty and future are at stake. If he's convicted - he's 69 years old - there's a very good chance he dies behind bars. Bigger picture, this is really the first thumbs-up or thumbs-down test for the Mueller team. This is the first time they're putting their case in front of an impartial trier of fact, the judge and the jury. And we're going to get a yes or no verdict. And so I think if they get a conviction, that's going to be an important step further, cementing the legitimacy of the Mueller team. If they don't get a conviction, and that could be an acquittal or a hung jury, then I think you're going to see the president and anyone who believes this is a, quote, "rigged witch hunt" rejoicing and celebrating.
  
  CHANG: A lot of observers say that this is going to be a slam dunk for the prosecution because there's so much evidence. But you bring up in your piece something that could derail the government's case, and that's this idea of jury nullification. Can you just briefly explain what is jury nullification?
  
  HONIG: Jury nullification happens when the jurors disregard the evidence that's been introduced at trial and the judge's legal instructions and instead decide the case based on some personal belief - some external belief that they may have, whether that's a political belief, a religious belief or just sort of a personal feeling about the case.
  
  CHANG: OK. But jury nullification is extremely rare. Do you think there could be a greater chance of jury nullification in this case because it's been so highly anticipated and so politically charged? We have the president today calling, in tweets, for an end to the Russia investigation.
  
  HONIG: Yes. Jury nullification is extremely rare. I want to make sure that point's clear. And I think jury nullification is at a higher likelihood in a high-profile case and especially here. This is about as high-profile as it gets.
  
  CHANG: Well, how about you? Do you have personal experience with this? I mean, have you had a case where you were pretty sure one juror nullified?
  
  HONIG: I have. About 10 years ago, I was tasked with doing the fourth trial of John Gotti Jr. here in New York City. He had been tried three times previously, and each time the jury hung. A few years later, he was charged again, and I tried that case against John Gotti Jr. And the jury hung 6-6. And at the end, we got to talk to the jurors. And the jurors who were for acquittal essentially said, yeah, we don't doubt that he was guilty. We just think it's unfair to try someone four times. So essentially...
  
  CHANG: Oh, yeah.
  
  HONIG: ...What that jury did was say, OK, the evidence may make out this guy's guilt, but we have a belief - a personal belief - about, basically, the overall fairness of the system.
  
  CHANG: You've already mentioned that there's a possibility of a hung jury. If there were a hung jury in this case, what are the broader implications for the Mueller investigation? Would that be really damaging?
  
  HONIG: I think a hung jury would be seen as pretty much an - akin to an acquittal. Technically, a hung jury is a tie, and almost always those cases are retried. But a hung jury is - make no mistake - is a loss for the prosecutor. I've had a hung jury. It hurts. If you ask a defense lawyer, will you take a hung jury? Ninety-nine times out of a hundred, they'll say absolutely. And a hung jury here would be - I would predict that the president and others would gloat about a jury refused to convict. They didn't acquit. OK, but they refused to convict based on Mueller's evidence.
  
  CHANG: Elie Honig is a former federal and state prosecutor. Thank you very much.
  
  HONIG: You're welcome. Anytime.
  
  Copyright © 2018 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.

What part of EXTREMELY RARE in your link did you fail to grasp? and it also says nothing about whether an expert witness can sit in on the trial either.

 

[barfo]

Now if you really want to troll, I would advise that you look to someone accomplished at the art. Take The King of Sling, My buddy, Barfo..see he has it down pat. He will suck you in to a conversation, display actual concern, and then burn you to the ground. Take a few lessons, untill then, go away and let the adults talk.

<blush> You are too kind, sir!

barfo

 

[DaLincolnJones]

<blush> You are too kind, sir!

barfo

Brother, I thought you would dig "King of Sling"

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Brother, I thought you would dig "King of Sling"

He can't really be a king when he still lives with his mother.

 

[barfo]

He can't really be a king when he still lives with his mother.

Mother just sits there and watches TV with me and never says a word. She's been a whole lot easier to live with since she died back in '91.

barfo

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Mother just sits there and watches TV with me and never says a word. She's been a whole lot easier to live with since she died back in '91.

barfo

Norman, Norman Bates?

 

[Lanny]

He made a deal to lie and has followed through with it. Mueller is now the guilty one.

For a lie, there's one hell of a lot of other evidence to back up his lie. In fact, the prosecution doesn't even need his testimony, it's more like the nail in the coffin.

 

[Lanny]

Mother just sits there and watches TV with me and never says a word. She's been a whole lot easier to live with since she died back in '91.

barfo

The dirty dishes must be really piling up. Also, the dirty socks.

 

[Lanny]

The trial is supposed to end tommorow. So, Manafort's time is short.

No, on the contrary, I think he's gonna get lots and lots of time, behind bars, that is.

 

[Lanny]

A witness who was allowed to hear testimony of others is worthless in any court of law.

Do you remember what I said about educating yourself before you make assertions? No? Well, you should do it because it prevents the gathering of feet in your mouth.

The judge apologized for his error in that regard. The witness was allowed to sit in by the judge IN WRITING earlier.

 

[yankeesince59]

 

[Chris Craig]

...respectfully Sly, how did I insult him?

You didn't. He insulted you

 

[Chris Craig]

...I have not posted here for very long but that seems to be your MO.

I welcome you yankee. Its ok that you haven't been posting here very long. You post like a champ. Solid arguments. The problem is that is Maris's MO...to run you in circles to circumnavigate the truth so he doesn't have to admit he is wrong. Keep posting.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Lanny and Yankee, Maris is a parody account. Don't take much of what he says seriously. I've met him, he's a very nice gentleman.

This is what is says on his signature - Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of MARIS61, a fictional message board character created for my amusement, and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of any real person alive or deceased.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Lanny and Yankee, Maris is a parody account. Don't take much of what he says seriously. I've met him, he's a very nice gentleman.

This is what is says on his signature - Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of MARIS61, a fictional message board character created for my amusement, and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of any real person alive or deceased.

He actually rescues stray cats, sells them, and donates the money to Planned Parenthood.

 

[Chris Craig]

He actually rescues stray cats, sells them, and donates the money to Planned Parenthood.

Wait, so he voted for Hillary

he is really a liberal in wolfs clothing

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Wait, so he voted for Hillary

I'm not supposed to anything but he knits Pussy Hats in his spare time.

 

[yankeesince59]

Lanny and Yankee, Maris is a parody account. Don't take much of what he says seriously. I've met him, he's a very nice gentleman.

This is what is says on his signature - Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of MARIS61, a fictional message board character created for my amusement, and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of any real person alive or deceased.

...Sly, thanx for the clarification...I'll try to take your advice about him into account when trying to decipher what he is saying and when responding to him.

...fwiw, the posters who have long been familiar with me refer to me as "59". (easier to type)..lol

 

[yankeesince59]

He actually rescues stray cats, sells them, and donates the money to Planned Parenthood.

...pshhh...that's nothing...I have a cape.

 

[Chris Craig]

...Sly, thanx for the clarification...I'll try to take your advice about him into account when trying to decipher what he is saying and when responding to him.

...fwiw, the posters who have long been familiar with me refer to me as "59". (easier to type)..lol

I still have fun arguing with him even though I know

 

[riverman]

Lanny and Yankee, Maris is a parody account. Don't take much of what he says seriously. I've met him, he's a very nice gentleman.

This is what is says on his signature - Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of MARIS61, a fictional message board character created for my amusement, and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of any real person alive or deceased.

yeah...strange form of amusement to insult my wife as a first generation American who according to him is the problem with America....just put him on ignore....you won't have to be barraged with Fox news feeds that way either. strangely he never posts in baseball threads