Notice Melo or Ariza?

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blazerkor said:
I wasn't saying that we keep Melo, maybe we would for the right price and if he were willing to take a different role but I sincerely doubt that happens. I was just saying the criticism of his role on the team was misplaced, that's all. Melo was good for us to have this year and I'm glad we have him going into the playoffs... I'd probably rather have Ariza though if I had to choose between the two.
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Gotcha! Yeah I appreciate what Melo did for us this year but I really don’t think he’s coming back next year. Much rather have Ariza too. People forget that a Dame/Trent/Ariza/Little/Whiteside was so much fun to watch this year. Just replace Whiteside with Nurkic then that lineup become so much better
 
wizenheimer said:
near as I can tell:

Damian Lillard $31,626,953
CJ McCollum $29,354,152
Jusuf Nurkić $12,000,000
Zach Collins $5,406,255
Anfernee Simons $2,252,040
Nassir Little $2,210,640
Mario Hezonja $1,882,867 (player option - assume he opts in)
Gary Trent $1,663,861
Andrew Nicholson $2,844,429
Anderson Varejão $1,913,345
Rodney Hood $6,003,900 (player option, assumes he opts in)

about 97M with a 115M salary cap; 139M tax line; 145M apron

2020 1st round pick $3,300,000 (estimate)

so, 100M with pick

Trevor Ariza $12,800,000 with only 1.8M guaranteed

so then, about 113M with Ariza and 102M if Ariza is waived

free agents:

Hassan Whiteside ($34,800,00 cap-hold)
Carmelo Anthony ($1,707,576 cap-hold)
Wenyen Gabriel ($1,922,425 cap-hold)

if Blazers do not renounce Melo, Ariza & Whiteside, they are over the apron and can only use the tax-MLE (not 100% positive)

if Portland keeps Ariza and re-signs Whiteside for 10M, they are at 123M leaving 16M in margin to tax line and 21M margin to apron. And sice they are below the apron, they could use the full-MLE of 9.2M. And if my math is right, they'd be at 10 player with the draft pick; 11 players with Ariza and 12 with Whiteside; 13 with Gabriel. So then, what's left is the MLE and Melo. And theoretically the 3.6M BAE (be hard-capped if used)

I Blazers can keep Melo for the non-bird or BAE, they'd be able to get a fairly decent player for the MLE

(and again, the disclaimer I'm not a CBA guru)
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The only cap hold that is concerning is Whitesides as the other two are so minimal and not much of an impact. That's an easy one. If we decide we have no interest in Whiteside then we just renounce his rights.
 
Ariza is going to be needed next season if we don’t use any of the MLE on another wing defender. And I wouldn’t spend anymore than the vet min for Melo.

I feel like you almost have to try to re-sign Whiteside for the most reasonable two year deal with a team option in year 2 possible. Having an Ariza $13m expiring and a Hassan $10-15m (is the most I would go up to) team option plus all of our picks and young assets we can essentially run it back with the situation from this year and be in the hunt for any disgruntled star.

Drafting an NBA ready 3-D wing like Vassell or Bey would really help too. Having Trent, Ariza, Little, and one of Bey or Vassell will really help with the wing defense. Next year, if Melo is back, I prefer him to be only a backup SF/PF. I wouldn’t bring him back if he wants to start.
 
LayneStaley said:
I’d be shocked if Hood was the same player next year. Not just the Achilles, which is tough on most athletes, but the year away from playing. I’m sure he will opt in but I’m not expecting much, I’d take Melo or Ariza over him.
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The fact that Melo was a year away from playing when we signed him doesn't seem to bother you.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
So last year's playoff run proved we don't need Nurk?
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On the contrary, the gsw series proved how much we needed him.

The barometer is not the length of the run, but how hard it was and where the failures were. If there is something that was clear last year from the regular season it was that few really did not anyone that could negate nurk.
 
wizenheimer said:
near as I can tell:

Damian Lillard $31,626,953
CJ McCollum $29,354,152
Jusuf Nurkić $12,000,000
Zach Collins $5,406,255
Anfernee Simons $2,252,040
Nassir Little $2,210,640
Mario Hezonja $1,882,867 (player option - assume he opts in)
Gary Trent $1,663,861
Andrew Nicholson $2,844,429
Anderson Varejão $1,913,345
Rodney Hood $6,003,900 (player option, assumes he opts in)

about 97M with a 115M salary cap; 139M tax line; 145M apron

2020 1st round pick $3,300,000 (estimate)

so, 100M with pick

Trevor Ariza $12,800,000 with only 1.8M guaranteed

so then, about 113M with Ariza and 102M if Ariza is waived

free agents:

Hassan Whiteside ($34,800,00 cap-hold)
Carmelo Anthony ($1,707,576 cap-hold)
Wenyen Gabriel ($1,922,425 cap-hold)

if Blazers do not renounce Melo, Ariza & Whiteside, they are over the apron and can only use the tax-MLE (not 100% positive)

if Portland keeps Ariza and re-signs Whiteside for 10M, they are at 123M leaving 16M in margin to tax line and 21M margin to apron. And sice they are below the apron, they could use the full-MLE of 9.2M. And if my math is right, they'd be at 10 player with the draft pick; 11 players with Ariza and 12 with Whiteside; 13 with Gabriel. So then, what's left is the MLE and Melo. And theoretically the 3.6M BAE (be hard-capped if used)

I Blazers can keep Melo for the non-bird or BAE, they'd be able to get a fairly decent player for the MLE

(and again, the disclaimer I'm not a CBA guru)
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I wouldn’t assume Mario opts in. He might, but he could (should) just go to Europe and make great money for more than a one year deal.
 
wizenheimer said:
near as I can tell:

Damian Lillard $31,626,953
CJ McCollum $29,354,152
Jusuf Nurkić $12,000,000
Zach Collins $5,406,255
Anfernee Simons $2,252,040
Nassir Little $2,210,640
Mario Hezonja $1,882,867 (player option - assume he opts in)
Gary Trent $1,663,861
Andrew Nicholson $2,844,429
Anderson Varejão $1,913,345
Rodney Hood $6,003,900 (player option, assumes he opts in)

about 97M with a 115M salary cap; 139M tax line; 145M apron

2020 1st round pick $3,300,000 (estimate)

so, 100M with pick

Trevor Ariza $12,800,000 with only 1.8M guaranteed

so then, about 113M with Ariza and 102M if Ariza is waived

free agents:

Hassan Whiteside ($34,800,00 cap-hold)
Carmelo Anthony ($1,707,576 cap-hold)
Wenyen Gabriel ($1,922,425 cap-hold)

if Blazers do not renounce Melo, Ariza & Whiteside, they are over the apron and can only use the tax-MLE (not 100% positive)

if Portland keeps Ariza and re-signs Whiteside for 10M, they are at 123M leaving 16M in margin to tax line and 21M margin to apron. And sice they are below the apron, they could use the full-MLE of 9.2M. And if my math is right, they'd be at 10 player with the draft pick; 11 players with Ariza and 12 with Whiteside; 13 with Gabriel. So then, what's left is the MLE and Melo. And theoretically the 3.6M BAE (be hard-capped if used)

I Blazers can keep Melo for the non-bird or BAE, they'd be able to get a fairly decent player for the MLE

(and again, the disclaimer I'm not a CBA guru)
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The only thing you might be leaving out is that like a 1 mil cap hold is put on every open roster spot. Other than that, I don't know if any of this is going to matter. The owners are definitely going to tear up the CBA using the force majeaure clause (I don't care what anyone says, they'd be fools not too) and who knows what the new CBA will look like. What exceptions, what cap, what luxury tax... who knows.
 
Ideally neither is the starter next year.

Between Melo or Ariza I'd take Ariza as a stopgap for one year.

Melo is a below average starter this year. I don't think he will get better. He was much better than Anthony Tolliver or Hezonja as a starter. I don't think Melo would be happy as a limited minute backup which should be his role if we had decent starter/backup options at the forward positions. I wouldn't sign Melo beyond a one year deal. I would not give him the MLE.

I'm a huge Melo fan this season but Neil needs to leave the emotions out of this and make the smart decision.
 
While Ariza brings a defensive presence that Melo cannot, I cannot imagine Ariza consistently making those clutch shots that Melo did the past few games.

Then again, perhaps with better defense we may not have needed those shots but the fact remains, Melo has been clutch for us and I for one am grateful to have him on our team.

I will admit to be dead-set against signing him and at times he as brought things to a halt offensively but I think with Nurk back and the offense flowing better, he is better settling into a highly valued role-player position and not being the 1st/2nd scorer.

I think he has adjusted his game and I appreciate having him.

Thanks Melo.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
The fact that Melo was a year away from playing when we signed him doesn't seem to bother you.
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He wasn’t coming off an Achilles injury, I’m sure Melo was at least working out and playing basketball in his time off, completely different situation.
 
blazerkor said:
The only thing you might be leaving out is that like a 1 mil cap hold is put on every open roster spot. Other than that, I don't know if any of this is going to matter. The owners are definitely going to tear up the CBA using the force majeaure clause (I don't care what anyone says, they'd be fools not too) and who knows what the new CBA will look like. What exceptions, what cap, what luxury tax... who knows.
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I'm a little confused. That clause does seem to have a shelf life after a cataclysmic event:

* "The NBA has 60 days from the beginning of a cataclysmic event to notify the union that it will declare force majeure. The start date of the relevant event—the COVID-19 pandemic—isn’t automatically clear. However, a sensible start date would be either March 11, when the league suspended the 2019-20 season, or March 13, when President Donald Trump proclaimed a national emergency. In either case, and absent other agreement by the league and the players’ association, the NBA would have until the second week of May to inform the NBPA that it intends to invoke the clause." *

https://www.si.com/nba/2020/04/17/nba-nbapa-pay-cut-agreement-coronavirus

that implies that the deadline for invoking the clause is long past. I don't know everything that was in the agreement between the owners and players that paved the way to the bubble. Maybe there was some language in there punting force majeure down the road. Or maybe, the agreement of the bubble was the clause itself although I sure think we'd be hearing about it if that was the case
 
wizenheimer said:
I'm a little confused. That clause does seem to have a shelf life after a cataclysmic event:

* "The NBA has 60 days from the beginning of a cataclysmic event to notify the union that it will declare force majeure. The start date of the relevant event—the COVID-19 pandemic—isn’t automatically clear. However, a sensible start date would be either March 11, when the league suspended the 2019-20 season, or March 13, when President Donald Trump proclaimed a national emergency. In either case, and absent other agreement by the league and the players’ association, the NBA would have until the second week of May to inform the NBPA that it intends to invoke the clause." *

https://www.si.com/nba/2020/04/17/nba-nbapa-pay-cut-agreement-coronavirus

that implies that the deadline for invoking the clause is long past. I don't know everything that was in the agreement between the owners and players that paved the way to the bubble. Maybe there was some language in there punting force majeure down the road. Or maybe, the agreement of the bubble was the clause itself although I sure think we'd be hearing about it if that was the case
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https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id...ree-extend-cba-termination-deadline-september

This is the best info we have. The only thing that is solid is that the deadline was significantly extended and hasn't come yet.
 
blazerkor said:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id...ree-extend-cba-termination-deadline-september

This is the best info we have. The only thing that is solid is that the deadline was significantly extended and hasn't come yet.
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thanks for that link

so I guessed right that there was an agreement to punt force majeure down the road

if the NBA does kill the current CBA, I'd bet there will be a long stoppage. especially if next season looks like a disaster

I'm trying to translate this paragraph:

* "For example, the CBA has a projected 2020-21 salary cap of $115 million, with a luxury tax threshold of $139 million. With the reality of lost revenues coming, some teams fear that cap and tax could fall as far as $25 million to $30 million. Without the league and union negotiating a new mechanism for the cap in the coming months, the league could be facing 25 of its 30 teams trapped in luxury tax payments based on projected payrolls -- something that would paralyze free agency and many organizations' ability to operate financially." *

are they saying that the projections of a 115M cap and 139M tax line could actually be 25-30M dollars high? Is that for next season? In other words, could the cap next year actually be 85-90M? If so, a 110-115M tax line would clobber a lot of teams, including Portland
 
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wizenheimer said:
thanks for that link

so I guessed right that there was an agreement to punt force majeure down the road

if the NBA does kill the current CBA, I'd bet there will be a long stoppage. especially if next season looks like a disaster

I'm trying to translate this paragraph:

* "For example, the CBA has a projected 2020-21 salary cap of $115 million, with a luxury tax threshold of $139 million. With the reality of lost revenues coming, some teams fear that cap and tax could fall as far as $25 million to $30 million. Without the league and union negotiating a new mechanism for the cap in the coming months, the league could be facing 25 of its 30 teams trapped in luxury tax payments based on projected payrolls -- something that would paralyze free agency and many organizations' ability to operate financially." *

are they saying that the projections of a 115M cap and 139M tax line could actually be 25-30M dollars high? Is that for next season? In other words, could the cap next year actually be 85-90M? If so, a 1110-115M tax line would clobber a lot of teams, including Portland
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I think you are getting this right but I don't know if Woj is, he is really piecemealing this thing together from different things he's heard and doesn't have any real hard reporting to do. Also we haven't heard anything about any of this stuff since May 11th and you know that so much more has to have been discussed since then. I think both the league and the NBAPA are keeping a lid on things because they are likely catastrophic. Obviously they will have to rip up the current CBA to make things work they can't just base everything off of the existing skeleton. As the article says, teams would be paralyzed. The whole thing will likely have to be renegotiated for the next two seasons and then negotiated again after that for a long term deal that makes sense. I am sure that next season is going to be really weird if there's a season at all.
 
blazerkor said:
I think you are getting this right but I don't know if Woj is, he is really piecemealing this thing together from different things he's heard and doesn't have any real hard reporting to do. Also we haven't heard anything about any of this stuff since May 11th and you know that so much more has to have been discussed since then. I think both the league and the NBAPA are keeping a lid on things because they are likely catastrophic. Obviously they will have to rip up the current CBA to make things work they can't just base everything off of the existing skeleton. As the article says, teams would be paralyzed. The whole thing will likely have to be renegotiated for the next two seasons and then negotiated again after that for a long term deal that makes sense. I am sure that next season is going to be really weird if there's a season at all.
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yeah...any time there is no CBA, the lockouts/strikes last quite a while. Except for last time when both sides were eager to get their giant slice of TV pie

but even when revenues were increasing, it sometimes took months to get sorted. If revenues are cratering, I think negotiations could get real contentious and possibly stalemate. The players always threaten to decertify the union. It may be that owners will finally call their bluff
 
if you combine the two of them, Ariza and Melo are 71 years old. That's 497 in dog years, Sly
 
wizenheimer said:
thanks for that link

so I guessed right that there was an agreement to punt force majeure down the road

if the NBA does kill the current CBA, I'd bet there will be a long stoppage. especially if next season looks like a disaster

I'm trying to translate this paragraph:

* "For example, the CBA has a projected 2020-21 salary cap of $115 million, with a luxury tax threshold of $139 million. With the reality of lost revenues coming, some teams fear that cap and tax could fall as far as $25 million to $30 million. Without the league and union negotiating a new mechanism for the cap in the coming months, the league could be facing 25 of its 30 teams trapped in luxury tax payments based on projected payrolls -- something that would paralyze free agency and many organizations' ability to operate financially." *

are they saying that the projections of a 115M cap and 139M tax line could actually be 25-30M dollars high? Is that for next season? In other words, could the cap next year actually be 85-90M? If so, a 1110-115M tax line would clobber a lot of teams, including Portland
Click to expand...

thats exactly how i read it.
 
What we need is depth on this team with quality players. Both Ariza and Melo still have something in them. You keep Ariza for sure and Melo isn't hurting for money so probably won't offer much. Plus I don't see a lot going after him. The rumor is he wants to go back to NY to finish his career but I don't see NY doings that. I see him signing back with us. Whiteside will flirt with the FA market but again I don't many takers and if someone sign him he probably will come off the bench just like if he stay in Portland. What he needs to do is accept a role off the bench and since he been in the bubble he only show that for 2 games.
 
The question of whether or not Melo is willing to accept a bench role really should be the primary consideration in re-signing him. Anyone wanna venture a guess how old Vince Carter was when he ceased to be a starter? Hint: there might be some correlation with a certain future HOFer currently on the Blazers.
 
Is it absolutely set in stone that the league isn't gonna let Ariza into the bubble?
 
damianlillard said:
Yes otherwise he would be here already
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This was from Haynes two weeks ago: https://sports.yahoo.com/report-trail-blazers-tried-persuade-190456369.html

Haynes reports that "the possibility was explored" but he was told that Portland would have had to apply for a hardship waiver or a late-arrival form for Ariza to enter the bubble. Plus, the league likely would have denied that request even if it was made due to Ariza deciding to opt-out and his name being absent from the restart roster.

Trail Blazers players were reportedly "upset with the outcome."
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With Rondo suddenly landing in the bubble, Lou Williams going in and out, and Mike Conley doing the same, it's kinda annoying that the league isn't giving our request a consideration
 
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