Merged: Crabbe Traded to Brk

[PtldPlatypus]

I agree the "you're better than this" is overly confrontational, heh.

I disagree, but I'll respect your request.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Brooklyn is way fucking cooler than Portland for a young black millionaire.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Saw the following on RealGM - not sure how accurate it is:

"But FWIW, 2016-17 POR played like a 52.2-win team w/ Crabbe OFF, just 32.6-win team w/ him ON"

Oopsie...

So much for the theory that we played better when Crabbe was on the floor.

BNM

 

[Minstrel]

I disagree, but I'll respect your request.

Oh, it wasn't a request. I actually misread your tone and thought you were annoyed by him by saying it to you, but now I see you've each been jabbing the other. There's nothing rule-breaking about it.

 

[Reep]

I've seen a couple of posts today that show this forum is far better sadisticly with me posting in it.

True, but the data is faulty because there were no examples where you didn't post.

 

[Reep]

"But FWIW, 2016-17 POR played like a 52.2-win team w/ Crabbe OFF, just 32.6-win team w/ him ON"

Oopsie...

So much for the theory that we played better when Crabbe was on the floor.

BNM

NO loves his advanced stats.

 

[Pinwheel1]

That's the thing I don't get. Batum got all kind of hate in this forum when he signed the MIN offer sheet. People really turned on him for signing a lucrative offer with a chance for an expanded role.

Is it because he's French?

BNM

More like because Crabbe never said a word and Batum (or his agent) said (and I am paraphrasing )

"Please don't match mother fuckers, I will be way better off in Rick's offense and Minnesota is closer to France"

 

[BonesJones]

There were many times I was wondering why he did not shoot when he had the ball. I do not have a statistical analysis of this. I do know that this team had tons of possessions when CJ and Dame were trapped that ended with Harkless or Aminu doing something with the ball that ended with a lost possession - how many of these are from Crabbe not being aggressive with the ball I can not tell you.

This is probably why I like ET more than Crabbe - he shoots low percentage - but when the offense grids to a halt - he will facilitate something for himself or someone else - I would rather have that happen and end with a clank than having Moe or Aminu left with the ball in their hand having to attack the rim off the dribble.

I understand what you're saying, and if it happened more often than I think it did, then a more aggressive shooter would be a better fit compared to a shyer, less efficient shooter. Just seemed like we didn't battle that problem that much.

I just don't feel like adding an injury prone 37% 3pt shooter who shoots nine 3s a game, while not bringing much else is a good move.

 

[Paine Tablet]

I'll take that bet. All Crabbe has to do is score 30pts one night and 0pts the next and that is an average of 15pts per game.

Or 20pts one night and 10pts the next, 15pt average.

I'll bet $50 he could do that once in his career.

I hit .400 off of future major league league pitching in HS in 5 at bats. Sadly, that player died at 23 the spring after his debut.

 

[Orion Bailey]

@BonesJones

Bro. You've watched warmups right? ALmost all NBA players shoot well from 3 when not guarded.
Nurk was shooting threes during the warmups of a game last year. He made a couple too.

I know you know that a contested 3 is much harder to make than a wide open 3, so a 3% gap would mean the contested shooter is actually or probably a BETTER shooter than the guy hitting 3% better on wide open threes.

Unless we're talking about foreign substances...

Dont knock foriegn substances...

AMinu is foriegn, as well as a coupe others!
Plus whats in my jar at home is foriegn too!

 

[0-Our!]

Can we do a lopsided trade for Lebron now?

We ARE ready! We can give Cle. 1/2 a Mild LeoTARD for Lebron; the other 1/2... we'll just chuck in the dumpster

 

[blue9]

That's the thing I don't get. Batum got all kind of hate in this forum when he signed the MIN offer sheet. People really turned on him for signing a lucrative offer with a chance for an expanded role.

Is it because he's French?

BNM

Combo of being French and NOT being Scottie Pippen. Eliminate one of those and hate would have dropped 75%.

 

[andalusian]

I just don't feel like adding an injury prone 37% 3pt shooter who shoots nine 3s a game, while not bringing much else is a good move.

I am not a big fan of adding Gordon, but if we do, he is a slightly better player than AC imho.

 

[Minstrel]

Combo of being French and NOT being Scottie Pippen. Eliminate one of those and hate would have dropped 75%.

At least he was more the French Scottie Pippen than Mickael Pietrus was the French Michael Jordan.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Which is why we shouldn't give up Harkless to get the PF version of Crabbe (Ryan Anderson).

Fo' shizzle. I loathe Ryan Anderson. And the thought of giving up Harkless to a acquire him makes me nauseous.

 

[riverman]

Shooting percentages are skewed by a few things....one AC didn't have to shoot many 3's with the shot clock expiring because the ball wasn't in his hands....AC wasn't double teamed at all because after we got Nurk 3 other guys on our roster commanded double teams....Gordon definitely had the ball more on the court and commanded more double teams than AC

 

[BonesJones]

@BonesJones

Bro. You've watched warmups right? ALmost all NBA players shoot well from 3 when not guarded.
Nurk was shooting threes during the warmups of a game last year. He made a couple too.

I know you know that a contested 3 is much harder to make than a wide open 3, so a 3% gap would mean the contested shooter is actually or probably a BETTER shooter than the guy hitting 3% better on wide open threes.



Dont knock foriegn substances...

AMinu is foriegn, as well as a coupe others!
Plus whats in my jar at home is foriegn too!

Aminu shoots 33% on the same open shots Crabbe does, many kettle wouldn't shoot that %. Some people shoot better when contested.

 

[BonesJones]

Gordon definitely had the ball more on the court and commanded more double teams than AC

Your post was accurate until this. Gordon doesnt demand a double team.

 

[BrianFromWA]

That's the thing I don't get. Batum got all kind of hate in this forum when he signed the MIN offer sheet. People really turned on him for signing a lucrative offer with a chance for an expanded role.

Is it because he's French?

BNM

My memory on the whole Batum signing is a bit fuzzy, but I think the "hate" against him was b/c his clown of an agent was negotiating in the media, trying to strongarm the Blazers for....I don't know why...and he didn't do himself any favors with this:

"I’m a restricted free agent," Batum said. "I know the situation. Anywhere I sign, the Blazers are going to match. But my first choice was, and is, Minnesota. That’s where I want to play and that’s where I want to put my family. I’ve got nothing against the fans (in Portland) and nothing against the city. But this is a basketball decision and basketball wise, I want to be there."...Batum is excited to play in new coach Rick Adelman's offense, believing that the Blazers' slower pace stunted his game a bit.
“I know that they’re working on a sign and trade, and I’m very hopeful that both of them understand my situation, do the best both for me and for them,” he said.
Olshey, Batum said, told him last week that he could be a big part of Portland’s team going forward.
“But like I said, I feel like I have to move on,” Batum said. “I need a new situation and a new start…I feel like it’s the best situation for me in Minnesota. I think that’s a great group of guys. This team can be interesting next year. It could be fun.”

At least NO tried the damage control:

"Let's be very clear," Olshey said. "Nic made a couple of comments at the behest of the Minnesota Timberwolves and his agent. That was their agenda. It was never Nicolas' agenda. If I wasn't in constant contact with the kid, I would tell you that. I can tell you that Nicolas called me after those articles went out and said, 'Look, they asked me to do this, they put me up to it. It's not me.' He always wanted to be back in Portland."

 

[dviss1]

Oh absolutely. Didn't Crabbe play better without dame on the court this past season too? There was some stat posted on here earlier this summer that Crabbe shot a worse percentage with dame than without dame.

Soooooo let's get rid of Dame...?

 

[Pinwheel1]

Shooting percentages are skewed by a few things....one AC didn't have to shoot many 3's with the shot clock expiring because the ball wasn't in his hands....AC wasn't double teamed at all because after we got Nurk 3 other guys on our roster commanded double teams....Gordon definitely had the ball more on the court and commanded more double teams than AC

I agree that shooting percentages are skewed. Dame is a great example. And yes there were a few times with the 2nd unit when I preferred AC to be more aggressive as opposed to passing it to say......Aminu. But when he was on the court with Dame and CJ, I liked that he only took open shots.

 

[BonesJones]

In the end, I'd rather have 2.1 for 4.8 3pt shooting than 3.8 for 10.2 3pt shooting. Those are Crabbes and Gordon's 3pt shooting clips per 36 respectively.

Why would I rather have that? Because I'd trust the offense to outperform the additional 1.7 on 5.4 3pt shooting Gordon adds over Crabbe. That's .94 points per shot.

Basically, with Gordon's more aggressive shooting resulted in a 94 ORTG on the additional shots he takes that Crabbe doesn't.

I'd rather have Crabbe's 2.1 for 4.8, then trust that the offense could outperform a 94ORTG over the other 5 possessions where Gordon would've shot shots that Crabbe wouldn't have. Since the team does usually perform at a higher offensive rate than a 94 ORTG suggests, then mathematically, it suggests that Crabbe's efficiency on limited shots is more valuable than Gordon's lesser efficiency on volume shooting.

I feel like most people won't understand the math, but those that do will realize what I've been talking about this whole time.

 

[chzbrgr]

I'll take that bet. All Crabbe has to do is score 30pts one night and 0pts the next and that is an average of 15pts per game.

Or 20pts one night and 10pts the next, 15pt average.

I'll bet $50 he could do that once in his career.

For an entire season sly and youre on? no chance he does that. lol

 

[RickyJoe]

So is Cap Space gonna push Cash Consideration for playing time???

no, but trade exception will

 

[WillG]

FUCK YEAH!!

That was my reaction upon reading the news Crabbe has been traded. Been waiting all offseason to hear it too.
I'll never have to watch his 'effort' & 'defense' again.

Team is much better off without an additional mental midget & his albatross contract.

Now Neal, about that other Biebs problem . . . .

 

[BonesJones]

I agree that shooting percentages are skewed. Dame is a great example. And yes there were a few times with the 2nd unit when I preferred AC to be more aggressive as opposed to passing it to say......Amin. But when he was on the court with Dme and CJ, I liked that he only took open shots.

Exactly, we need guys around Dame and CJ that can hit open shots. Dame and CJ can got off a contested shot any time they want, and it would have a better yield than if Eric Gordon gets off a contested shot. So why do we need a guy next to Dame and CJ to take contested shots at a worse clip than them?

The problem with Crabbe is all he did was hit open shots for $18M a year. We need guys that can hit open shots, defend, and provide some slashing ability in order to contend. That's why I didn't like Crabbe. However, Gordon doesn't provide much slashing ability, can't defend, and while he can hit open shots, he shoots way too many contested jumpers.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Just saw the news.

Good! It's a nice first step, hopefully Neil doesn't follow it up with Ryan-fucking-Anderson.

 

[BonesJones]

Can someone (@Boob-No-More ?) find me the percentages on Crabbe's and Gordon's open 3pt shot percentages, as well as their contested 3pt shot percentages? Could go a long way to figuring out how much of Crabbe's efficiency was his lack of volume from only shooting open shots.

 

[blue9]

Exactly, we need guys around Dame and CJ that can hit open shots. Dame and CJ can got off a contested shot any time they want, and it would have a better yield than if Eric Gordon gets off a contested shot. So why do we need a guy next to Dame and CJ to take contested shots at a worse clip than them?

Why can't Gordon take the open shots that Crabbe (and LOLminu!) took? Why's it gotta be contested?

 

[Wizard Mentor]

"But FWIW, 2016-17 POR played like a 52.2-win team w/ Crabbe OFF, just 32.6-win team w/ him ON"

Oopsie...

So much for the theory that we played better when Crabbe was on the floor.

BNM

sucky stat, can't learn anything from it.