Merged: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

[audienorris]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

its possible travis does have some insight as to where he will be playing next season. during the 99-00 i was working at a subway sandwich shop and jermaine and b.g. would frequently come in and order subs after practice. we had a couple injuries and jermaine got some serious burn and played a great game against san antonio and i was chating with him about how he deserves more minutes and he told me that he had asked for a trade and at the end of the season he was going to either indiana or another team, i think it was new jersey but he said he wanted to go to indiana. i thought he was probably full of it but after he got traded i always bragged about how j.o. told me he was going to indy months before the trade went down.

i wish travis the best and will root for him wherever he goes, unless its l.a.

 

[THE HCP]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

The last game of the 07-08 season was in PHX. On that flight home back to Portland, Travis and Channing sat next to me for about an hour. They were talking to Wheelz and myself about a bunch of different stuff. Trav mentioned to me a couple times about how he knew he was as good as gone. There was no way he was coming back. Didn't happen. I think he might just have an issue with his self confidence more then anything. He might be traded, who knows, but I'm sure nobody has told him anything to make him really think that.

 

[DUB]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

I think he might just have an issue with his self confidence more then anything.

Trout needs to hang out with King Speed.

He won't have any self confidence issues after that.

 

[Haakzilla]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

To resurect an old forums coin phrase with a new twist...

T.O. MUST GO!! That guy frustrates me more than any Blazer I have ever seen.

...how long have I been saying, TO must GO, just like zBO!!!???

 

[STOMP]

The last game of the 07-08 season was in PHX. On that flight home back to Portland, Travis and Channing sat next to me for about an hour. They were talking to Wheelz and myself about a bunch of different stuff. Trav mentioned to me a couple times about how he knew he was as good as gone. There was no way he was coming back. Didn't happen. I think he might just have an issue with his self confidence more then anything. He might be traded, who knows, but I'm sure nobody has told him anything to make him really think that.

why would anyone? I can't come up with a reasonable motivation for Blazer management to, and who else's opinions matter? Scape-goating posters on internet chatsites

To add to your speculation, I'm sure Trav doesn't feel great about how the playoffs went for him and it would only be natural to be a bit down after not coming through and the club losing. But the rest of the NBA world was watching the playoffs too and it's not like he upped his trade value. I'm sure KP will be gauging interest around the league for much of his roster and assets (thats his job after all) and change is a constant on NBA rosters. But I doubt KP is going to make a move cutting off his nose to spite his face. Frye is gonzo which makes Travis's ability to guard many Bigs reasonably, pretty important to the club.

As you said, he might be traded, but it's doubtful that management or Travis himself knows that today

STOMP

 

[HailBlazers]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

...how long have I been saying, TO must GO, just like zBO!!!???

If T.Law went to four years of college and just finished his second year in the league nobody would be saying that. Everyone is stupid for thinking that just because he's been in the league for so long that he should have honed his game to the fullest. If we trade him he's gonna make us sorry. But maybe the better for Trout...

 

[Wheels]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

If T.Law went to four years of college and just finished his second year in the league nobody would be saying that. Everyone is stupid for thinking that just because he's been in the league for so long that he should have honed his game to the fullest. If we trade him he's gonna make us sorry. But maybe the better for Trout...

While I agree about the bold part.. but maybe not so much about him making us sorry.. The guy could still hone his game, but I will agree that his lack of Basketball IQ and defense hurts us SO STINKING MUCH! Stuff like that isnt just all of the sudden something that you do well at.

 

[adrenalize74]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

While I agree about the bold part.. but maybe not so much about him making us sorry.. The guy could still hone his game, but I will agree that his lack of Basketball IQ and defense hurts us SO STINKING MUCH! Stuff like that isnt just all of the sudden something that you do well at.

There it is. Low BB IQ cant be "worked on", he will always make terrible decisions when allowed to think for himeself. Give the guy some rope and he hangs himself with it....or takes a TERRIBLE, desperation-style 3 pointer with over 5 secs left on the clock against Houston in Game 4, same thing really.

TO MUST GO!!!!

 

[HailBlazers]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

There it is. Low BB IQ cant be "worked on", he will always make terrible decisions when allowed to think for himeself.

TO MUST GO!!!!

You totally missed my point. College ball is where you learn the IQ of the game. You think players are just born with BBall knowledge or not straight out the womb? You sound pretty damn ignorant yourself.

 

[ppilot]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

You totally missed my point. College ball is where you learn the IQ of the game. You think players are just born with BBall knowledge or not straight out the womb? You sound pretty damn ignorant yourself.

Some players just seem to understand the game more than others. Just because someone plays college ball, doesn't mean that they will have a high basketball IQ. It's his sixth year, and he still seems to get lost on on defense and offense. He is not going to get that much better on this team. Compared to Martell and Batum, he doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the team in terms of offensive cohesiveness. I like Travis, just not as a player I consistently have to rely on.

 

[STOMP]

If T.Law went to four years of college and just finished his second year in the league nobody would be saying that. Everyone is stupid for thinking that just because he's been in the league for so long that he should have honed his game to the fullest.

Easy there, we're just having a basketball discussion. Calling posters names won't win you any arguments or friends it just gets you edited.

As opposed to college where players have time distractions like classes and homework, in the league the players have plenty of free time to hone their games. They need to have a work ethic to achieve, but I doubt any team exceeds the amount of support staff that Paul Allen provides his guys. Travis (and every young Blazer) has had the benefit of full access to top assistent coaches, physical trainers, nutritionists, etc... around the clock and calendar. And they can work out with and pick the brains of much more talented hoopers then mere college players.

Though I see the value in both, I'm more of a nature then nurture believer. Cream rises to the top regardless. But I very much doubt attending Mississippi State would have better prepared Travis for the league then 4 years at Trailblazer U.

STOMP

 

[KingSpeed]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

Webs would have made a huge difference for us this year. .

Explain.

 

[KingSpeed]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

or takes a TERRIBLE, desperation-style 3 pointer with over 5 secs left on the clock against Houston in Game 4, same thing really.!!!!

Ummm that play was designed by Nate. He just did what the coach asked him to do.

 

[adrenalize74]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

Ummm that play was designed by Nate. He just did what the coach asked him to do.

I find it VERY difficult to believe the Nate called Outlaws number to take such a HUGE shot in such a crucial moment....especially with Roy and Rudy on the floor. And in the crazy chance it was, I would be amazed if he was told to "catch and shoot", he didnt even try to improve his position or create a little space. He shot is like he was trying to beat the buzzer.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

I find it VERY difficult to believe the Nate called Outlaws number to take such a HUGE shot in such a crucial moment....especially with Roy and Rudy on the floor. And in the crazy chance it was, I would be amazed if he was told to "catch and shoot", he didnt even try to improve his position or create a little space. He shot is like he was trying to beat the buzzer.

If I remember correctly, Mr. Sonic came out and said that was the option. Travis however, probably wasn't instructed to shoot that particular shot.


It's the classic situation of two wrongs not making a right.

 

[Wheels]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

If I remember correctly, Mr. Sonic came out and said that was the option. Travis however, probably wasn't instructed to shoot that particular shot.


It's the classic situation of two wrongs not making a right.

I think how Sarge worded it was "He was one of the options yes" if I remember correctly.

 

[Wheels]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

Explain.

someone who you couldnt just leave open to go and double Roy or LA etc. Martell's shot is one you have to be aware of, just because he's out there.

 

[MAS RipCity]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

name me the last time webster came even remotely close to hitting a game winner, let alone 6

 

[Mediocre Man]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

name me the last time webster came even remotely close to hitting a game winner, let alone 6

Probaby the same time Webster missed 75% of his defensive rotations.

 

[maxiep]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

Explain.

Webster does many things as well as or better than both Travis and Batum. He's a better defender than Travis and equal to Batum. He garners more respect among NBA coaches and defenders for his long-range shooting than either TO or Nico. As such, he loosens the defense. He's a better passer than Travis or Nico. He has a higher BBIQ than Travis and equal to that of Batum. He's a better ballhandler than both of them. He's a better driver than both of them. He moves without the ball better than both of them. Bottom line, with him in the lineup, we have more threats and options than we do without him. He's a combination of the best of Travis and Nico and also adds other attributes to the party.

The larger point, however, is that Webs fixes the rotation. Travis proved much more effective at the four this year than the three. With Webs in the lineup, our rotation looks like this:

Black Unit:
PG - Blake
SG - Roy
SF - Webster
PF - Aldridge
C - Przybilla

White Unit
PG - Rodriguez
SG - Fernandez
SF - Batum
PF - Outlaw
C - Oden

That second unit is hugely uptempo, with a dominant rebounder and a terrific wing defender.

 

[andalusian]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

Webster does many things as well as or better than both Travis and Batum. He's a better defender than Travis and equal to Batum.

I have no idea where anyone would get that idea.

Webster is a lesser version of Batum on defense even in his best year. His block rate is half or Batum's, his steal rate is half of batum's, his rebounding rate is lower than Batum's and his defensive rating (remember - it was his best year) was worse than Batum's. Batum is a better defender out of the gate than Webster and as a rookie - one suspects he has more to go up from there - not really a surprise since his wingspan is higher and his lateral movement seems much better than Webster's.

As for the offense the idea that Webster is respected more than Batum seems rather strange to me as well. Batum's 3P% is almost as good as Webster but his TS% is higher, his overall FG% is higher and he even assists at a higher rate than Webster - and he achieved all this while his usage percent was lower (by 4%) than Webster.

I believe Batum telling us that Nate told him the starting position is his to lose. He is already a better defender, he is already more efficient on offense and he is much more likely to improve given that he is younger and less experienced. Another thing that seems to go well for Batum is that he combines Webster's best attributes (and most of them to a higher degree) with Outlaw's devil may care attitude - you would never get the idea that the Blazers will have to hire a psychologist to help him with his confidence.

We could argue until the cows come home if it's Webster or Outlaw that stays - but I am certain that if the Blazers had to give up Webster instead of Batum for Gerald Wallace (as the rumors went) - he (Wallace) would be on the team now.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

Webster does many things as well as or better than both Travis and Batum. He's a better defender than Travis and equal to Batum.

I'll agree with this.

 

[alex42083]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

I think some people are underestimating Webster a bit. I don't think he's the legitimate third scoring option we need, but he's another shooter we can throw out there.
He's also probably the best shooter on the team. You put Brandon at PG, Rudy and Martell in the corners to hit the 3 or create on their own, it creates a wide-open lane for guys like LaMarcus and G.O. to operate.

I'm real excited to see Martell next season and how he fits in. Hopefully he can just stay healthy.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

That's astonishing.

Webster has never been a good defender. McMillian said we WANT him to become a good defender, but so far, he is not.

He has never, on his best day and in his proudest moment, been the defender that Batum is at this moment. I believe the statistics support my conclusion as well.

Also, Martell is not known for his passing, rebounding, or ability to block shots or garner steals. Batum is ahead of Webster in all these areas. Batum scored less, that is all.

That's pretty much what the Per36 numbers state and even the scoring differential isn't all that dramatic; measuring out to 13.6 for Webster in his best year and 10.5 for Nicolas in his first season.

I like Webster and I think he'll make a decent backup small forward next season (or however the minutes break down), but Batum has already shown more offensive efficiency and an ability to play both ways in his rookie season than Martell has in three healthy seasons. Granted, Nicolas has to improve his aggressiveness on offense plus he needs more core strength and probably 5-10 lbs more bulk before you'd feel comfortable making him a 35 minute per night guy, but looking at more than just the numbers I think Batum's 'wiring' is better than Martell's -- does anybody think Nic is going to need to visit a sports psychologist any time soon to get his head sorted out? I don't think so.

 

[Wheels]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

I think some people are underestimating Webster a bit. I don't think he's the legitimate third scoring option we need, but he's another shooter we can throw out there.
He's also probably the best shooter on the team. You put Brandon at PG, Rudy and Martell in the corners to hit the 3 or create on their own, it creates a wide-open lane for guys like LaMarcus and G.O. to operate.

I'm real excited to see Martell next season and how he fits in. Hopefully he can just stay healthy.

This

 

[Nikolokolus]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

I think some people are underestimating Webster a bit. I don't think he's the legitimate third scoring option we need, but he's another shooter we can throw out there.
He's also probably the best shooter on the team. You put Brandon at PG, Rudy and Martell in the corners to hit the 3 or create on their own, it creates a wide-open lane for guys like LaMarcus and G.O. to operate.

I'm real excited to see Martell next season and how he fits in. Hopefully he can just stay healthy.

I'll concede that Martell has the best looking jumper on the team (his form is flawless), but his percentages just don't back this up. My gut feeling is that Martell is very prone to the yips and his struggles largely start inside his brain box. When you have a shooting specialist about the worst thing you can have is one with confidence issues, hopefully a year off and a little more maturity will correct some of that, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

 

[andalusian]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

That's pretty much what the Per36 numbers state and even the scoring differential isn't all that dramatic; measuring out to 13.6 for Webster in his best year and 10.5 for Nicolas in his first season.

It is even closer than that - Batum's usage% is lower (14%) than Webster's was (18%).

We know who the SF of the future of this team is - and he started for us most of this year.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

The owner of the place I usually have lunch is a personal friend of Travis Outlaw. I have also seen the big guy in there a couple of times and it's clear they know each other well.

I was talking Blazers with the owner (I really don't know him at all as he's kind of a stoic person who rarely talks to people- in fact this is the first time we have really had a conversation together) and he states that Travis tells him he will not be with the team next year and will be involved in a trade. Just when the trade will be, or who for he does not know- only that Travis states it's going to be.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE remember I have this second hand from someone who does know Travis. It also may be Travis "thinks" he will get traded and I'm getting it with the spin added by his friend.

Nonetheless, I felt it my duty to report it here first. Also, out of respect, I will not give the name of the restaurant.

You eat lunch at the Hot Seat? Say hello to Gary for me!

 

[Stevenson]

Re: Here's A Scoop On Outlaw

Travis is just speculating based on the same information we all have ... that he sucked and that his position is being marginalized by people more talented than he is. -Pop

You know you are just making that up, right? You have no way of knowing whether Travis is speculating or not.

Logic would dictate that he probably knows something. He has worked as a loyal employee for the Blazers for 6 years. They value him, and in business terms, his manager likely told him, out of respect, that he should expect change this summer.

I buy it 100%

 

[STOMP]

You know you are just making that up, right? You have no way of knowing whether Travis is speculating or not.

Logic would dictate that he probably knows something. He has worked as a loyal employee for the Blazers for 6 years. They value him, and in business terms, his manager likely told him, out of respect, that he should expect change this summer.

I buy it 100%

let me take a guess... thats what you're hoping for

STOMP