Merged: It starts at the top ...

[Nikolokolus]

This little blurb from Dave at Blazersedge really struck a nerve with me

http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/3/23/1386224/reflections-on-a-team-gone-wrong

The most head-slapping, incredulity-evoking example came from Larry Miller when he said:

"I'm as surprised as you guys are that all this stuff came out of [the Penn firing]."

Let me offer a simple quote in response: What?!?

You whack a guy publicly and dramatically
You know his agent is a rabble-rouser
You know his agent is your GM's agent
You know your team has had turmoil internally that is both festering and heretofore unknown to the public (and thus bombshell material)
You spent years in an adversarial and invasive relationship with the media
Yet you're surprised that anyone's bothering to ask about the huge fireworks display all of this is creating? If you dress up in green and crimson, walk into a circular ring in Mexico, and start waving a cape it probably shouldn't surprise you that some kind of cattle charge ensues. How could you not talk about all of this before you fired Tom Penn?

In order to be surprised by all of this you have to be woefully unaware of your environment: media, fans, even your own organization. And see, this is the part that makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. The Blazers are no stranger to being disconnected from their environment. It already brought the franchise and this city to the brink of divorce once. It certainly brought this franchise and the media to blows. We all assumed that we had a fresh start once the Jailblazer era was over. But the roots of that era didn't rest with the players or their actions. The deepest roots rested within the organization itself...precisely the kind of disconnect that this chain of events hearkens to. This has nothing to do with the fitness of Penn or Pritchard or anyone else. It has to do with a franchise where relationships that progress normally in other places--for good or ill--become this here. It has to do with this happening in multiple eras, across multiple executives, in multiple situations. It has to do with a franchise that cannot get out of its own way enough to let its followers love it.

I know we all wring our hands over Paul Allen's health and despite his up and down tenure here he's invested enormous amounts of his own personal wealth into the team and without him there might not even be a Portland Trailblazers (more like the Omaha Bison) but I've really been wondering just how good of an owner is Paul Allen really? This kind of clusterfuck is nothing new to the city or the team since he took over in 88. Does all of this stem from PA being mentally incapable of not stepping on his own dick? Can he keep it in check for a couple of years, leading us to believe that he's changed his ways, only then to let his true nature reveal itself?

I guess what I'm wondering, is this team doomed to repeat these kind of snafus for as long as PA and the Vulcans are at the helm running the team from 200 miles away in Seattle?

 

[ppilot]

Re: It starts at the top ...

This is Dave at his best and I completely agree with your sentiment about the Paul Allen/Vulcan disconnect with the rest of the franchise.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Re: It starts at the top ...

I agree with Miller on his statement. From his perspective they fired Penn. Not KP. This should have nothing to do with KP. Yes I assume he knew KP would not be happy and nor his agent, but I doubt they thought the agent would make it all about KP. Penn was an after thought yesterday. No one really cares about him. The Agent (With or without KP's blessing) made it about KP with his comments to the national media. There may have been problems, but they were problems that could have been worked out. Now it will be much more difficult as ego's are more involved and PA has been publicly embarrassed.

 

[Blazer_Hippie]

Re: It starts at the top ...

This little blurb from Dave at Blazersedge really struck a nerve with me

http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/3/23/1386224/reflections-on-a-team-gone-wrong


I know we all wring our hands over Paul Allen's health and despite his up and down tenure here he's invested enormous amounts of his own personal wealth into the team and without him there might not even be a Portland Trailblazers (more like the Omaha Bison) but I've really been wondering just how good of an owner is Paul Allen really? This kind of clusterfuck is nothing new to the city or the team since he took over in 88. Does all of this stem from PA being mentally incapable of not stepping on his own dick? Can he keep it in check for a couple of years, leading us to believe that he's changed his ways, only then to let his true nature reveal itself?

I guess what I'm wondering, is this team doomed to repeat these kind of snafus for as long as PA and the Vulcans are at the helm running the team from 200 miles away in Seattle?

++++999999999

If you don't normally click and read the whole article on links here...I DEFINITELY recommend reading this one. It's long but, to me, it presents my concerns about this mess really well.

 

[Ed O]

Re: It starts at the top ...

I fail to see why the location of Vulcan or Paul Allen has anything to do with it.

If Paul Allen were to live in Portland, do you guys think he'd be different?

If Vulcan's HQ were in Portland, would they have a different influence on the team?

Many people in Portland have a stick up their ass about Seattle, and it's something I understand. I grew up having the Seahawks shoved down my throat every Sunday, when I wanted to watch other games. I still don't root for a single Seattle sports team in spite of living here for over a decade partially because of my dislike of the teams I had as a kid. I also believe that Seattle deserved to lose the Sonics because the city, county and state were unable or unwilling to pay the price of an NBA team. I'm not anything approaching a Seattle homer when it comes to sports.

But... blaming the failure of decades of NBA management on Paul Allen's residence in Seattle seems silly to me. He's lost tens of millions (maybe hundreds of millions) of dollars on the arena and team since he has been the owner, and he's generally delivered a winning product. He's had ups and downs in terms of successes, but I don't see something systematically poisoned... look at almost any NBA franchise and it has its warts. If there IS a systematic poison, and it can be traced to Paul Allen or Vulcan, I don't think that it would be at all different if those entities were in Portland or San Jose or Boise rather than Seattle.

Ed O.

 

[BGrantFan]

Re: It starts at the top ...

I fail to see why the location of Vulcan or Paul Allen has anything to do with it.

If Paul Allen were to live in Portland, do you guys think he'd be different?

If Vulcan's HQ were in Portland, would they have a different influence on the team?

Many people in Portland have a stick up their ass about Seattle, and it's something I understand. I grew up having the Seahawks shoved down my throat every Sunday, when I wanted to watch other games. I still don't root for a single Seattle sports team in spite of living here for over a decade partially because of my dislike of the teams I had as a kid. I also believe that Seattle deserved to lose the Sonics because the city, county and state were unable or unwilling to pay the price of an NBA team. I'm not anything approaching a Seattle homer when it comes to sports.

But... blaming the failure of decades of NBA management on Paul Allen's residence in Seattle seems silly to me. He's lost tens of millions (maybe hundreds of millions) of dollars on the arena and team since he has been the owner, and he's generally delivered a winning product. He's had ups and downs in terms of successes, but I don't see something systematically poisoned... look at almost any NBA franchise and it has its warts. If there IS a systematic poison, and it can be traced to Paul Allen or Vulcan, I don't think that it would be at all different if those entities were in Portland or San Jose or Boise rather than Seattle.

Ed O.

It's simple to me. I don't believe that the Vulcans have any idea what the Blazers mean to this city because they don't and have never lived here. I happen to like Seattle as a city. I went to college at UW, and I have a bunch of friends plus my brother living there. It's my opinion that having Vulcan Inc. in Seattle hinders both the efficacy and efficiency of running the team. It's as simple as that, and the Sonics meant so much less to Seattle than the Blazers mean to Portland.

 

[Blazer_Hippie]

Re: It starts at the top ...

I fail to see why the location of Vulcan or Paul Allen has anything to do with it.

If Paul Allen were to live in Portland, do you guys think he'd be different?

If Vulcan's HQ were in Portland, would they have a different influence on the team?

Many people in Portland have a stick up their ass about Seattle, and it's something I understand. I grew up having the Seahawks shoved down my throat every Sunday, when I wanted to watch other games. I still don't root for a single Seattle sports team in spite of living here for over a decade partially because of my dislike of the teams I had as a kid. I also believe that Seattle deserved to lose the Sonics because the city, county and state were unable or unwilling to pay the price of an NBA team. I'm not anything approaching a Seattle homer when it comes to sports.

But... blaming the failure of decades of NBA management on Paul Allen's residence in Seattle seems silly to me. He's lost tens of millions (maybe hundreds of millions) of dollars on the arena and team since he has been the owner, and he's generally delivered a winning product. He's had ups and downs in terms of successes, but I don't see something systematically poisoned... look at almost any NBA franchise and it has its warts. If there IS a systematic poison, and it can be traced to Paul Allen or Vulcan, I don't think that it would be at all different if those entities were in Portland or San Jose or Boise rather than Seattle.

Ed O.

I have worked in a number of companies where ownership is located off-site /at a distance from the actual operations. My personal experience, without exception, is that arrangements like that lead to some level of disconnection between ownership and operations. I haven't really seen anything to suggest things aren't similar with the Blazers.

I can't say for sure, but perhaps having ownership walking the floor every day *might* give them a little better feeling of what's going on so they could handle dicey waters a little better than they have so far. Also, if Paul Allen was walking the sidewalks of Portland every day, don't you think he'd be more likely to give a statement about this mess because it would be in his face whenever he left the house?

And... I have nothing against Seattle. I think it's a great city and always enjoy visiting (I was there last week). Personally I enjoy Portland more as far as where I want to live, but that's just my preference and I expect a lot of folks feel the opposite.

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

I've come to the realization that

We should have expected this. All this is nothing new. The only thing thats new this time is that we have a great and passionate GM and a no-nonsense coach (even though i dont like nate). The people at the top are still making the ultimate decsions, they are the ones that keep fucking everything up. The same ones that wanted to give Darius or whoever it was money to keep quiet. The same ones who let this franchise become the laughing stock of the league.

Who makes these kinds of decisions??? Who fires a member of their staff 18 games from the end of the season??? Who trots KP out to a press conference when he looks like hell???

Damn, there has got be some accountability with this team. Eventually people have to really look and see if its all worth it. Listen i know that there are people that dont care if KP will be here next year. But the fact of the matter is the upper management of this franchise cant seem to get their heads out of their ass and make it seem they cant make one sound BASKETBALL decision, EVER!

Anyone with me?

 

[RR7]

Re: I've come to the realization that

http://sportstwo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155832

 

[Nikolokolus]

Re: It starts at the top ...

I fail to see why the location of Vulcan or Paul Allen has anything to do with it.

If Paul Allen were to live in Portland, do you guys think he'd be different?

If Vulcan's HQ were in Portland, would they have a different influence on the team?

Many people in Portland have a stick up their ass about Seattle, and it's something I understand. I grew up having the Seahawks shoved down my throat every Sunday, when I wanted to watch other games. I still don't root for a single Seattle sports team in spite of living here for over a decade partially because of my dislike of the teams I had as a kid. I also believe that Seattle deserved to lose the Sonics because the city, county and state were unable or unwilling to pay the price of an NBA team. I'm not anything approaching a Seattle homer when it comes to sports.

But... blaming the failure of decades of NBA management on Paul Allen's residence in Seattle seems silly to me. He's lost tens of millions (maybe hundreds of millions) of dollars on the arena and team since he has been the owner, and he's generally delivered a winning product. He's had ups and downs in terms of successes, but I don't see something systematically poisoned... look at almost any NBA franchise and it has its warts. If there IS a systematic poison, and it can be traced to Paul Allen or Vulcan, I don't think that it would be at all different if those entities were in Portland or San Jose or Boise rather than Seattle.

Ed O.

"Distance" as a figurative and literal term. As in out of touch.

 

[HailBlazers]

Re: I've come to the realization that

Anyone with me?

Yes, if they can't get it right with KP they'll never be able to get it right

 

[The Professional Fan]

I agree with Ed. Allen would run the Blazers the same way if he was here or in Seattle. It's not like Allen, after owning the Blazers for decades, and has attended countless games and has spent countless days in Portland, with Portland people, doesn't understand the connection the city has with the Blazers. That is foolish to think. Perhaps the Vulcans do not understand the connection, but the guy making the decisions certainly does, IMO.

 

[BGrantFan]

I agree with Ed. Allen would run the Blazers the same way if he was here or in Seattle. It's not like Allen, after owning the Blazers for decades, and has attended countless games and has spent countless days in Portland, with Portland people, doesn't understand the connection the city has with the Blazers. That is foolish to think. Perhaps the Vulcans do not understand the connection, but the guy making the decisions certainly does, IMO.

The Vulcans make the decisions. Allen created them to save him from himself. Just read Tod Leweike's interview after he was hired to see who is calling the shots on the business side. Allen has influence on the basketball side, but he has the business sense of a cucumber. I said cucumber because I just took a bite of on in my salad. That was random.

 

[The Professional Fan]

The Vulcans make the decisions. Allen created them to save him from himself. Just read Tod Leweike's interview after he was hired to see who is calling the shots on the business side. Allen has influence on the basketball side, but he has the business sense of a cucumber. I said cucumber because I just took a bite of on in my salad. That was random.

I just have a really, really hard time believing a billionaire has the business sense of a cucumber.

Mmmm...salad.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I agree with Ed. Allen would run the Blazers the same way if he was here or in Seattle. It's not like Allen, after owning the Blazers for decades, and has attended countless games and has spent countless days in Portland, with Portland people, doesn't understand the connection the city has with the Blazers. That is foolish to think. Perhaps the Vulcans do not understand the connection, but the guy making the decisions certainly does, IMO.

AGAIN, I meant to imply the physical distance is also figurative distance ... PA seems very detached from the day to day operations of this team, and yes it would probably be the same even if he lived here in Portland.

This isn't some anti-Seattle, "poor little brother" Portland thing.

 

[BGrantFan]

I just have a really, really hard time believing a billionaire has the business sense of a cucumber.

Mmmm...salad.

He managed to run his team into bankruptcy and lose control of the arena he built. He alienated his own paying customers, who stayed away from the team. He did this in arguably the best NBA city in terms of fanbase. That is a special category of fuck up in the world of fuck ups.

As somebody posted yesterday, Allen's best business move was being Bill Gates' buddy.

 

[barfo]

As somebody posted yesterday, Allen's best business move was being Bill Gates' buddy.

It's pretty hard for anyone to top that as a business move, so not topping it doesn't reflect badly on Paul at all.

barfo

 

[hasoos]

AGAIN, I meant to imply the physical distance is also figurative distance ... PA seems very detached from the day to day operations of this team, and yes it would probably be the same even if he lived here in Portland.

This isn't some anti-Seattle, "poor little brother" Portland thing.

But here is my problem with your statement. You are assuming that him being detatched is:

1. A bad thing.

2. Not the normal operations of most owners.

I tend to think that most owners are not that involved in their team besides cutting the check. The Marc Cubans of the league, are rare at best.

 

[BGrantFan]

It's pretty hard for anyone to top that as a business move, so not topping it doesn't reflect badly on Paul at all.

barfo

I didn't say it reflected badly on him. I'm just pointing out a fact.

 

[barfo]

You whack a guy publicly and dramatically

Meaning, you fire a guy mid-season? I don't think there was anything else "dramatic" about it. And I'm not sure they did it "publicly" either. It happens to have been a position that the public and press were aware of, so of course the firing is going to become public. But that's different than firing him at center court during a game.

You know his agent is a rabble-rouser

You shouldn't fire people if their agents are assholes? Wouldn't that tend to increase the number of assholes you have to deal with?

You know his agent is your GM's agent

You shouldn't fire anyone who is represented by an agent for any of your other personnel? Again, that would seem to tie your hands in a lot of personnel matters, as they'd all use the agent for the person with the most job security.

You know your team has had turmoil internally that is both festering and heretofore unknown to the public (and thus bombshell material)

Uh, what? What actual, not made up on the internet or by Canzano, turmoil are we talking about here?

You spent years in an adversarial and invasive relationship with the media

I don't think Larry Miller spent years in any such relationship.

barfo

 

[The Professional Fan]

I find this relevant to the topic. I'm a die hard Seahawk fan, and I have to admit, the firing of Mora was handled really poorly (though I was happy he got canned). This from the Seattle PI:

http://blog.seattlepi.com/football/archives/199099.asp

Fired Seahawks coach Jim Mora went on the radio Monday to promote two fundraisers by his charity foundation, but wound up being less than charitable to his former employers in a half-hour interview on 710 ESPN Seattle.

A candid Mora told radio hosts Kevin Calabro and Jim Moore that two things have stuck in his craw from his January dismissal after one season as head coach: The fact he was sent out to conduct a post-season media session on Wednesday after the season finale, even while CEO Tod Leiweke was in Los Angeles interviewing Pete Carroll to replace him.

And he said owner Paul Allen never reached out to him after his firing and he's still yet to speak with his former boss.

Asked if he could renew a friendship with Leiweke, Mora said he didn't like being lied to and called it "inexcusable" that he was paraded out in front of the media when management was pursuing his replacement.

"I like people that are truthful," Mora said. "When I was sent out to do that press conference on Wednesday, and I knew the man you are talking about was down in Southern California talking to Pete Carroll, that doesn't sit well with a guy like me.

"I'm not about lies and deception. We'll see what happens. I'm a pretty forgiving guy, but there are certain things that take a little bit longer than others to get over."

Mora said he called UW head coach Steve Sarkisian moments after his firing that Friday and Sarkisian told him he already knew, as Carroll had called him the night before to ask about former USC and UCLA assistant Dewayne Walker as a potential defensive coordinator for his staff.

Pretty classless move by Allen and Leiweke.

 

[BGrantFan]

I find this relevant to the topic. I'm a die hard Seahawk fan, and I have to admit, the firing of Mora was handled really poorly (though I was happy he got canned). This from the Seattle PI:

http://blog.seattlepi.com/football/archives/199099.asp



Pretty classless move by Allen and Leiweke.

I'm sensing a pattern here...

good find.

 

[Minstrel]

I have to say, Vulcan isn't filling me with a lot of confidence. I'm beginning to worry that the last couple of years will turn out to be as good as it gets, as Vulcan systematically eliminates anyone who isn't willing to be a yes-man. I'd hate for the Pritchard years to be the short-lived oasis, similar to the Gruden years for the Raiders. At least Raiders fans got a Super Bowl appearance out of it.

 

[barfo]

A candid Mora told radio hosts Kevin Calabro and Jim Moore that two things have stuck in his craw from his January dismissal after one season as head coach: The fact he was sent out to conduct a post-season media session on Wednesday after the season finale, even while CEO Tod Leiweke was in Los Angeles interviewing Pete Carroll to replace him.

And he said owner Paul Allen never reached out to him after his firing and he's still yet to speak with his former boss.

Asked if he could renew a friendship with Leiweke, Mora said he didn't like being lied to and called it "inexcusable" that he was paraded out in front of the media when management was pursuing his replacement.

That just seems like sour grapes to me. Wasn't the post-season media session a scheduled event? Isn't the coach the featured speaker at such events? Wasn't Mora employed as the coach on that day? Is his gripe that they didn't fire him sooner?

As for Paul not reaching out to him - how many company owners "reach out" to their fired employees?

barfo

 

[The Professional Fan]

That just seems like sour grapes to me. Wasn't the post-season media session a scheduled event? Isn't the coach the featured speaker at such events? Wasn't Mora employed as the coach on that day? Is his gripe that they didn't fire him sooner?

As for Paul not reaching out to him - how many company owners "reach out" to their fired employees?

barfo

I don't know, it was a pretty unique situation in Seattle. Their GM, Tim Ruskell, had targeted Mora as their next HC after Holmgren was to retire. They "groomed" Mora for a full season as the DB coach to take over for Holmgren (Mora's 2nd or 3rd year in the organization as DB coach). Mora takes over, wins one more game than Holmgren did the previous year, then the GM gets fired and management decides to go a different direction after just one season with Mora as HC. He was told to hold the post season presser while Leiweke went to SoCal to interview Carroll for Mora's job. Seems a little underhanded, I think. Even if firing Mora was the right thing to do, which, in all honesty was and is up for debate especially because Carroll was considered a "better" option. Couldn't have Leiweke and Allen handled the situation with a little more class? After all, Mora is a Seattle guy. Went to UW, grew up in Seattle, and is highly regarded throughout the Seattle area. It was his dream job (behind the Husky gig). And he was treated with very little respect, IMO.

 

[jlprk]

Man, this guy Dave of BlazersEdge is a jerk. I hate him. What a hateful article. He's just another Canzano. Portland has way too much media focused on the Blazers. Vulcan has done nothing wrong. There's no classy way to fire higher ups. You just get it over with and let the chips fall where they may.

He managed to run his team into bankruptcy and lose control of the arena he built. He alienated his own paying customers, who stayed away from the team. He did this in arguably the best NBA city in terms of fanbase. That is a special category of fuck up in the world of fuck ups. As somebody posted yesterday, Allen's best business move was being Bill Gates' buddy.

As for "running his team into bankruptcy and losing control of the arena"--that happened because of Allen's generosity. You see the spending as bad business deals, I see it as the whole reason we have an above average team and arena in a small market.

As for the Seahawks--notice that it all fell apart after they got rid of Bob Whitsitt? It's like killing Saddam Hussein--he may have been a tough ruler, but you're having to be even meaner to hold this organization together. He wasn't so bad after all.

 

[BGrantFan]

Man, this guy Dave of BlazersEdge is a jerk. I hate him. What a hateful article. He's just another Canzano. Portland has way too much media focused on the Blazers. Vulcan has done nothing wrong. There's no classy way to fire higher ups. You just get it over with and let the chips fall where they may.



As for "running his team into bankruptcy and losing control of the arena"--that happened because of Allen's generosity. You see the spending as bad business deals, I see it as the whole reason we have an above average team and arena in a small market.

As for the Seahawks--notice that it all fell apart after they got rid of Bob Whitsitt? It's like killing Saddam Hussein--he may have been a tough ruler, but you're having to be even meaner to hold this organization together. He wasn't so bad after all.

It is bad business. Losing your own arena is a special sort of fuck up, especially when you're one of the richest men in the world. Allen is a terrible businessman, and his #1 fault seems to be putting his personal feeling ahead of his business decisions.

 

[The Professional Fan]

Man, this guy Dave of BlazersEdge is a jerk. I hate him. What a hateful article. He's just another Canzano. Portland has way too much media focused on the Blazers. Vulcan has done nothing wrong. There's no classy way to fire higher ups. You just get it over with and let the chips fall where they may.



As for "running his team into bankruptcy and losing control of the arena"--that happened because of Allen's generosity. You see the spending as bad business deals, I see it as the whole reason we have an above average team and arena in a small market.

As for the Seahawks--notice that it all fell apart after they got rid of Bob Whitsitt? It's like killing Saddam Hussein--he may have been a tough ruler, but you're having to be even meaner to hold this organization together. He wasn't so bad after all.

lol - you have no idea what you're talking about right there, but it's ok. I get your point anyway.