Merged: My thoughts on this GM saga (1 Viewer)

[BGrantFan]

1. There is a growing sentiment amongst the Vulcans that KP made a mistake in evaluating Gregs physical condition. Although its pretty easy to argue that there isn't a GM out there who would have drafted Oden ahead of Durant.

From a business perspective, why the fuck would the Vulcans care about this? The team has had nothing but sell-outs since Oden was drafted, and a TV contract that doubled what they used to get pre-Oden extends 7 more years.

2. Even if you write the draft issue off as hindsight being 20/20, you have the FA mess of last summer. Personally, I was after Miller all along and am glad he is the one we ended up with. However everyone at Vulcan and here in PTown was sold on RLEC and all hyped up about it. We got nothing out of that. Then we were all sold on Hedo Turkoglu. And when I say all of us, I am including Paul Allen...a man used to getting what he wants. Then we miss on Milsap. Sure, I'm glad we have Andre, but you can't escape the fact that Kevin identified who he wanted, sold everyone on the idea, and then didn't deliver. And lastly you have Pritchards attachment to "his" guys. He himself has admitted he has overvalued his own players at times, and been less willing to trade them than he probably should have been.

We got Andre Miller out of that. Marcus Camby as well, if you assume that Blake, Outlaw, or other vets would have to be included in a February 2009 deadline trade. Plus, a big contract in return, like Vince Carter's.

3. We're hearing that Vulcan took over the contract negotiating because Kevin wasn't getting it done and Brandon Roy went over his head.

So the Vulcans are to blame for signing Roy? That must also mean that they are to blame for massively overpaying Aldridge.

Exactly how is Pritchard the problem here? The team will make the playoffs this year after suffering some catastrophic injuries. It's almost surreal that Pritchard will be let go, but it looks like that's what's going to happen.

 

[ucatchtrout]

I never said Pritchard should be let go.

I can see where a case could be built against him though, if someone wanted to replace him. He isn't perfect. I do NOT want Warkentien to replace Pritchard as GM. But I do see where he is probably better qualified than Kevin in several key areas of the job.

You have to remember, Paul Allen, like the rest of us was sold on the immense value of RLEC...and we got nothing for it. Yeah nothing. Because we were all promised a blockbuster deal that never happened and then told that capspace would be a wonderful thing. Next we, and Paul were sold the idea of Hedo Turkoglu being the perfect fit for the team....and we got nothing there....and then Milsap....and then nothing....and then finally Andre Miller, whom we could have traded for midseason. I like Miller and I always have. And out of the three players mentioned I'd prefer him. But if you look at what happened there and how it happened one could argue that KP didn't git er done. He did not get Paul what he had convinced Paul was needed. Paul is a very wealthy man who is used to getting what he wants. The way things played out may have pissed him off. It sure as hell pissed a lot of fans off. There was all kinds of crap written about it all over the internet.

 

[BGrantFan]

I never said Pritchard should be let go.

I can see where a case could be built against him though, if someone wanted to replace him. He isn't perfect. I do NOT want Warkentien to replace Pritchard as GM. But I do see where he is probably better qualified than Kevin in several key areas of the job.

You have to remember, Paul Allen, like the rest of us was sold on the immense value of RLEC...and we got nothing for it. Yeah nothing. Because we were all promised a blockbuster deal that never happened and then told that capspace would be a wonderful thing. Next we, and Paul were sold the idea of Hedo Turkoglu being the perfect fit for the team....and we got nothing there....and then Milsap....and then nothing....and then finally Andre Miller, whom we could have traded for midseason. I like Miller and I always have. And out of the three players mentioned I'd prefer him. But if you look at what happened there and how it happened one could argue that KP didn't git er done. He did not get Paul what he had convinced Paul was needed. Paul is a very wealthy man who is used to getting what he wants. The way things played out may have pissed him off. It sure as hell pissed a lot of fans off. There was all kinds of crap written about it all over the internet.

RLEC had almost no value in a trade, at least in terms of salary cap implications. Would you want Vince Carter in return, knowing that Roy, Aldridge, and hopefully Oden would be extended? I wouldn't. I think Batum is a better fit for this team right now as it is. As for RLEC last summer, the Darius Miles fiasco in Memphis blunted its impact. We'd have two additions had Miles stayed off the books. Since he didn't stay off the books, Pritchard's choice was to either take on a huge contract in return via trade, or find a lesser player via free agency. He chose Option B, and Miller has had a very good season for us.

I happen to like what happened. If the Vulcans don't, it's because they don't know shit about hoops.

 

[ucatchtrout]

RLEC had almost no value in a trade

Thats just a story.

I have another one.

What you choose to believe is up to you.

The story fans were sold and ownership as well was that RLEC did indeed have immense value. After it failed to bring us a deal another story was promoted to mute the dissapointment in Blazer land when the trade deadline came and went.


Since you bring up Darius Miles....that is another faux paus. Who was responsible for that? KP? Vulcan? Larry Miller? Who knows. If it was KP and the Vulcans of course know this that would be another potential strike against him.

 

[STOMP]

thats dumb....

irony running rich today... this applies to everyday

STOMP

 

[ucatchtrout]

Here is how I hope it goes down in the postseason evaluations.

Vulcan: Kevin, we're not happy about some things and want to make some changes.

KP: I understand

Vulcan: Kevin, here is what we want to do differently................................................. Would you be willing to make these changes?

KP: Yes

Vulcan: Good. Now that we're on the same page we can move forward together.

 

[rocketeer]

I realize the fan base loves kpee. I really do. But i dont think the fan base realizes that hes not the answer in taking us to the next level. Theres 3 kinds of GMs in the NBA....

1. Nash type who is the bad guy. hes brought in to be the bad guy. Make the moves the fans will hate. Start over.

2, KP type who can scout and draft the team of the future. Hes gonna get things on track.

3. the vet GM who finishes the puzzle. Thats where we are. Kp has taken us as far as he can.

can you point to past examples which would indicate that you are correct? what past championship teams brought in veteran gms to "finish the puzzle"?

 

[jlprk]

There are probably no examples, since previous champion teams became contenders only because they had GMs with trading ability. They hadn't lucked into a great center while having a GM whose sole success had come from the owner's financing every single trade with millions of dollars.

Pritchard tried hard to trade RLEC at the last moment. But he drove too hard a bargain with more than one team, e.g. expecting to get Vince Carter for nothing. Hours after the deadline, the Nets GM said, "We're aiming to reduce salary, but this isn't a pure salary dump. We aren't just going to GIVE him away."

So praising Pritchard for not making a move at the midseason deadline doesn't hold water. He didn't refrain voluntarily, he failed due to his own arrogance. It's like praising him for not signing Hedo--what?

And if you say we DID get something for RLEC because we got Andre Miller 6 months later (Minstrel likes to repeat that)--well, he was available at the February trade deadline. We could have included Sergio with LaFrentz for Miller. So we were unnecessarily delayed in acclimating Miller to his new team by half a season. Whichever way you look at it, Pritchard could have done better.

 

[rocketeer]

There are probably no examples, since previous champion teams became contenders only because they had GMs with trading ability. They hadn't lucked into a great center while having a GM whose sole success had come from the owner's financing every single trade with millions of dollars.

what big trades did the spurs swing to win titles? seems like they followed the "luck into a great center" method. and do trades not count if they happen during the draft?

my point was that the idea of needing to upgrade the gm from a "builder" to a "vet finisher" is just something that isn't historically supported. i was kinda hoping to figure out where someone would get the idea, though i'm sure mixum doesn't have an actual legitimate reason for thinking it.

 

[jlprk]

He doesn't, and he made it up hypothetically, but his theory might be true, but never demonstrated till now. Maybe the middle stage GM has always been able to be the final stage GM, until now. Ours can't make trades, so Mixum's construct might be necessary for the first time, for us.

Yes, I'm including draft day trades--every one of the major ones has needed that magic $3M to get the other side to agree. (Except Pendergraph cost only around $1.5M.) No other GM has this advantage. When a trade is detailed without mentioning the large payoff to the other owner, it looks like a Pritch-slap on paper, for local consumption. But the other owner is humming happily.

 

[oldguy]

Why the hell did Vulcan/Allen start this shit with TP before the end of the season? The team doesn't need the distractions as they head down the stretch for the playoffs. PA/Vulcan couldn't let things slide until the off-season? Freak'n dumb shits.

To me, this whole thing 'feels' like it's personal between PA and KP. Prichard is not perfect but he's done a pretty good job in turning this team from a joke into a playoff team. With Oden healthy, the team is a contender. (Saying that taking Oden was a mistake is hindsight bs.) He's also turned this team into a bunch of guys you WANT to cheer for. I don't see enough of a performance issue to warrant firing him.

There are no guarantees if PA replaces KP. He could hire another John Nash to replace him about as easily as hiring another Geoff Petrie.

In the end, it's Allen's team, and he can do whatever he wants.

If they are going to do this, I can live with it and remain a fan....but it better work. If they fire Pritch, and don't continue to improve under the new regime, I'll be done with this team...after 35 years of being a hard core fan. I've stuck with the team through a lot of crappy years, and if PA is going to screw it up just as the team is arriving....I've had it.

I know that my sister and bro-law will cash it in, too, if the team regresses under a new GM. I'm guessing there will be more than just the three of us. My sis and her husband are already pretty hacked off that this crap broke three days after they re-upped for next year's tix.

Mr. Allen's timing of this shows that he's not perfect, either.

Go Blazers

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Seriously: who opens a thread started by MIXUM entitled "My thoughts on..." anything?

(Besides me, to post this, obviously.)

 

[HailBlazers]

Here is how I hope it goes down in the postseason evaluations.

Vulcan: Kevin, we're not happy about some things and want to make some changes.

KP: I understand

Vulcan: Kevin, here is what we want to do differently................................................. Would you be willing to make these changes?

KP: Yes

Vulcan: Good. Now that we're on the same page we can move forward together.

/THREAD

 

[BGrantFan]

Here is how I hope it goes down in the postseason evaluations.

Vulcan: Kevin, we're not happy about some things and want to make some changes.

KP: I understand

Vulcan: Kevin, here is what we want to do differently................................................. Would you be willing to make these changes?

KP: Yes

Vulcan: Good. Now that we're on the same page we can move forward together.

Vulcan: In other words, let us run the team, Kevin. Your way has only made us a shitload of money. Let us take over from here.

Pritchard: Fuck you, either fire me or I'm leaving after next season.

Vulcan: See Paul, our jobs are necessary. Who needs malcontents like this Pritchard asshole around this organization. Now let's get back to fucking up the Seahawks.