Merged: OT: Mavs in the Caron/Haywood sweepstakes now

[julius]

They traded for Kidd a year after they got smoked in the first round of the playoffs so I don't think they started floundering so much as kept floundering.

true, but I remember hearing fans (and people on TV) saying this was such a brilliant move by the Mavs, and that Portland blew it by not trying to make a play for Kidd.

And it's not like Devin Harris has lit the world on fire for the Nets.

Blasphemer!

Devin Harris was one of the best PGs in the league, who would be a HUGE get for whatever team got him! to quote Joe Wilson, YOU LIE!

 

[NJNetz]

Mavs weren't "floundering" because of Kidd, but because of Avery Johnson and the lack of depth.


Thanks for playing, though!

 

[axs88]

I'm just glad Boston is not getting Butler+Jamison for Ray Allen.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Very true. Fuck Boston.

 

[LittleAlex]

Meh...I think people are way over valuing Butler here and Brendan "oh hey, it's my contract year, maybe this will be the first year I don't suck and I'll be able to trick someone into signing me to a bigger contract than my talent warrants" Haywood.

It's not that Butler is so awesome but that he is much better then Howard.

And Haywood is an underrated center who is far superior to Dampier.

I think Dallas upgraded two positions with one trade.

Their bench took a hit with Gooden leaving but you can't get something for nothing unless you are the Lakers or Celtics.

 

[julius]

It's not that Butler is so awesome but that he is much better then Howard.

I don't know if he's "much" better.

And Haywood is an underrated center who is far superior to Dampier.

Far superior? You mean a guy who in his 10th year, and contract year, averages 2 points more and 2 boards more. Not sure if that's "far superior". But Dampier and Haywood have something in common though, they both conveniently had strong seasons in contract years.

I'm really not sure why Portland would want to rent a player for now less than 30 games, that will probably want more $$ (due to bird years) than what they could end up paying for him for next year IF they wanted him bad enough.

Plus, he'd end up being a backup next year and it's not a given he'd be the backup 5 anyways, if Joel can come back healthy.

He might improve them, but it doesn't necessarily mean his #'s are going to translate.

I think Dallas upgraded two positions with one trade.

The thing is, Gooden's #'s will probably be replaced by Dampiers production and Haywoods will probably be what Dampier gets now.

So that's a wash.

And Butler, who is a much higher scorer (rank wise) in Washington, probably won't be the #2 option in Dallas. And what his average will be, will probably be about 14-15, and Marions will go down to probably under 10 (due to a drop in minutes).

So basically, imho, the #'s that Butler and Haywood bring to Dallas, added to Marion and Dampier, won't be any different than the #'s that Dallas had with Gooden and Howard playing those roles.

Their bench took a hit with Gooden leaving but you can't get something for nothing unless you are the Lakers or Celtics.

I don't think this will help Dallas nearly as much as people think it will. If they had gotten Butler for Gooden alone, sure.

 

[Buzz Killington]

DEAL REPORTEDLY DONE:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...threat-to-lakers-after-getting-butler-haywood

Check your rear-view mirror, Los Angeles. Dallas is coming up fast.

In one fell swoop, the Mavs have parlayed incumbent Josh Howard into All-Star caliber Caron Butler and shot-blocker Brendan Haywood, enabling the Mavs to match up against L.A. better than any other team in the west.

ESPN has reported that an agreement between Dallas and Washington is in place and ready to be consummated Monday. Dallas will send injury-prone Josh Howard, veteran Drew Gooden and a bit player yet to be named to Washington in exchange for Butler, Haywood, and DeShawn Stevensen.

 

[Buzz Killington]

That is a fucking STEAL for the MAVS.

 

[NJNetz]

Too bad Dallas needs to send Gooden to the Wizards to get the deal done. He's a great player for them.

 

[drexlersdad]

Semi lateral IMO

 

[RagingBull04]

I can NOT believe KP couldn't have put together a better deal than that for Haywood. Ugh, this blows.

 

[EGame]

The deal that was made makes me believe the rumor of Washington wanting both Batum and Rudy for Haywood was false and is what KP wants us to believe.

 

[Minstrel]

Okay what was he available for? I know it was Batum and we had to take a bad contract in return, which of course, I would have done because I like proven players. I will admit the one thing that scares me about Wallace is his injury history, but he such a great player, that it is worth the gamble to me.

Wallace is one of my favourite non-Blazers and I was hoping Pritchard could get him for RLEC, but I wasn't willing to trade Batum for him and still am glad he didn't. I think Batum's expected prime will be similar to Wallace's. I'll take a younger, cheaper version of Wallace without the extensive injury history over Wallace himself. Yes, there's some risk there but not enough, IMO, to get the older, injury-prone version.

 

[RagingBull04]

The deal that was made makes me believe the rumor of Washington wanting both Batum and Rudy for Haywood was false and is what KP wants us to believe.

By this deal it's Howard for Butler and D. Gooden for Haywood. Washington wasn't interested in Outlaw, Blake and cash for Haywood?

 

[julius]

I can NOT believe KP couldn't have put together a better deal than that for Haywood. Ugh, this blows.

well, there is a little thing called contracts and Washington agreeing to the trade you know.

We could've had to send out something like 20 million for those 3 players, if we had to meet the same requirements as Dallas did.

And as much as Portland fans think we should be able to get a bucket of gold out of a bag of piss, Webster, Outlaw, Blake and Rudy don't = 20 million.

Remember, the salaries have to match. I quickly came up with one that would match, salary wise, and it included:

Webster, Rudy, Blake, Mills, Outlaw, Cunningham and Bayless.

God damn that Pritchard!

 

[RagingBull04]

well, there is a little thing called contracts and Washington agreeing to the trade you know.

We could've had to send out something like 20 million for those 3 players, if we had to meet the same requirements as Dallas did.

And as much as Portland fans think we should be able to get a bucket of gold out of a bag of piss, Webster, Outlaw, Blake and Rudy don't = 20 million.

Remember, the salaries have to match. I quickly came up with one that would match, salary wise, and it included:

Webster, Rudy, Blake, Mills, Outlaw, Cunningham and Bayless.

God damn that Pritchard!

It didn't have to be a move for Butler and Haywood. It could have been a deal straight up for Haywood. I would have pulled the trigger on a deal that would have sent Blake, Outlaw, Cash and a second rounder or two to Washington.

They wouldn't have accepted that? Or was it ever offered to them?

 

[EGame]

well, there is a little thing called contracts and Washington agreeing to the trade you know.

We could've had to send out something like 20 million for those 3 players, if we had to meet the same requirements as Dallas did.

And as much as Portland fans think we should be able to get a bucket of gold out of a bag of piss, Webster, Outlaw, Blake and Rudy don't = 20 million.

Remember, the salaries have to match. I quickly came up with one that would match, salary wise, and it included:

Webster, Rudy, Blake, Mills, Outlaw, Cunningham and Bayless.

God damn that Pritchard!

You know, not everyone has to take your side with trading issues and how good (or not) KP is... Some may want an impact deal especially if Batum/Bayless/Rudy don't pan out/fit on the team. If that were the case then there goes there value! Oh well.

 

[RagingBull04]

You know, not everyone has to take your side with trading issues and how good (or not) KP is... Some may want an impact deal especially if Batum/Bayless/Rudy don't pan out/fit on the team. If that were the case then there goes there value! Oh well.

That's the risk of baking cakes.

 

[julius]

It didn't have to be a move for Butler and Haywood.

Why would Washington not make Dallas take Butler and Stevenson, if they wouldn't do the same to Portland?

It could have been a deal straight up for Haywood. I would have pulled the trigger on a deal that would have sent Blake, Outlaw, Cash and a second rounder or two to Washington.

They wouldn't have accepted that? Or was it ever offered to them?

Why wouldn't Washington have traded them separately if they could then? They could get a trade for Haywood from Portland, and one for Butler from Dallas, and get more players (with ending contracts, and probably better than what they have now)?

Why didn't they? Because I doubt it was an option.

 

[EGame]

Wallace is one of my favourite non-Blazers and I was hoping Pritchard could get him for RLEC, but I wasn't willing to trade Batum for him and still am glad he didn't. I think Batum's expected prime will be similar to Wallace's. I'll take a younger, cheaper version of Wallace without the extensive injury history over Wallace himself. Yes, there's some risk there but not enough, IMO, to get the older, injury-prone version.

If he could become that I would be very excited. With that said, he has not become that and has been as inconsistent as all of our young guys. Wallace is a proven player and unlike every Blazer fan, I am willing to deal Batum for a proven player. The one thing that does scare me about him is his injury history, but ultimatley, I will take a guy who can defend just like Batum, rebound like no other, and drives to the hoop and is an all-star this year.

 

[julius]

You know, not everyone has to take your side with trading issues and how good (or not) KP is... Some may want an impact deal especially if Batum/Bayless/Rudy don't pan out/fit on the team. If that were the case then there goes there value! Oh well.

Um..thanks?

Maybe some want an impact deal but don't actually do the homework to work it out to see if it makes financial sense, or actually see that the player or players they're trading for are any good or would make sense to be traded for.

But thanks college boy.

 

[EGame]

That's the risk of baking cakes.

Yes, it is a risk, which is why I say we try and trade at least Rudy for someone who will be of use to us. Perhaps Bayless or Batum with Rudy if it is an impact player. They can pan out, which will be awesome, but if they don't, our future isn't so bright.

 

[RagingBull04]

If he could become that I would be very excited. With that said, he has not become that and has been as inconsistent as all of our young guys. Wallace is a proven player and unlike every Blazer fan, I am willing to deal Batum for a proven player. The one thing that does scare me about him is his injury history, but ultimatley, I will take a guy who can defend just like Batum, rebound like no other, and drives to the hoop and is an all-star this year.

Were all living on hopes and dreams with many of these players. I think they're all overrated including Nic Batum.

 

[EGame]

Were all living on hopes and dreams with many of these players. I think they're all overrated including Nic Batum.

It is true. They are to an extent. Batum is the most overrated by anyone, he has not exactly proven a whole lot, yet is considered untouchable/key piece. I disagree. I may want to try and keep him over someone like Rudy and deal Rudy first, but if we were to get an impact player, I woud not be hesistent to deal Batum if he was required by the other team (and by impact player I mean someone like a Bosh or an all-star who is still relatively young and still makes the all-star game).

 

[julius]

btw, my college boy comment was out of line, I apologize.

 

[BBert]

well, there is a little thing called contracts and Washington agreeing to the trade you know.

We could've had to send out something like 20 million for those 3 players, if we had to meet the same requirements as Dallas did.

And as much as Portland fans think we should be able to get a bucket of gold out of a bag of piss, Webster, Outlaw, Blake and Rudy don't = 20 million.

Remember, the salaries have to match. I quickly came up with one that would match, salary wise, and it included:

Webster, Rudy, Blake, Mills, Outlaw, Cunningham and Bayless.

God damn that Pritchard!

If KPEEE didn't suck as a GM, he would have FORCED the Wiz to accept our offer!

 

[MickZagger]

It is true. They are to an extent. Batum is the most overrated by anyone, he has not exactly proven a whole lot, yet is considered untouchable/key piece. I disagree. I may want to try and keep him over someone like Rudy and deal Rudy first, but if we were to get an impact player, I woud not be hesistent to deal Batum if he was required by the other team (and by impact player I mean someone like a Bosh or an all-star who is still relatively young and still makes the all-star game).

Its not about consistency in a 21 year old, that will come. I'm not sure you realize why Batum has so much potential and is coveted as a trading piece by teams around the league. Basketball instincts, length, lateral quickness, a solid jumper, can defend opposing teams players positions 1-4, newly developed ball handling abilities, capabilities to be a lock down defender with more experience, ability to excel im both uptempo and half court offense. He's 21, will only get better and has shown the ability in just his rookie year to be a very effective defender against the star wing players in the league. I watched him D up Dirk Nowitski and Aaron Brooks in back to back games, which shows his versatility on defense. The only thing I really question about his game is the ability be effective after he puts the ball on the floor and he's already shown strides in that area of his game.

You don't give up on a 21 year old with those type of intangibles.

 

[EGame]

Sorry, I do for the rright price (you're seriously telling me you would not trade Batum for a Bosh hypothetically). I don't tend to overvalue players, once I see consistency then perhaps I will change my tune. But it is cool, we can crown king Batum and if he doesn't work out, then what? I remember everyone was into Rudy last year and I was too, but I would have included him in trades last year if need be. I want to see consistency, not just flashes only to fizzle out.

 

[Minstrel]

I don't tend to overvalue players

How objective of you. You are an inspiration.

once I see consistency then perhaps I will change my tune.

You're open to overrating players if you see some consistency?

But it is cool, we can crown king Batum

That's all we ask.

and if he doesn't work out, then what?

Tear it down and rebuild. Honestly, unless Batum pans out, this era of Portland basketball is down the tubes.

I remember everyone was into Rudy last year

"Everyone" is everyone's popular scapegoat. Poor "everyone." The best way to illustrate folly is to blame Everyone for his/her (?) opinions.

and I was too

I thought you don't overrate players? Are you quashing the inspiration?

I want to see consistency, not just flashes only to fizzle out.

That's a unique perspective. Most people want to see flashes that fizzle out. In fact, everyone used to want that. Silly everyone.

 

[EGame]

Rebuild... Fun. And *sigh* you took a lot of that out of context.