Merged: Quick reports talks with Hedo's agent / Hedo Turkoglu discussion

[Crimson the Cat]

Re: CBS Sports reporting Blazers after Turkoglu / Quick reports talks with Hedo's age

If Hedo is our true target, which I don't believe he is, his playmaking, smarts, experience will make us better. No question about that. Still, Portland's got some tricks up their sleeves. What we are hearing has got to be smoke.

 

[boatsandstars]

Re: Hedo Turkoglu Welcome Thread

if we sign hedo, what happens to the 3 small forwards we have now (outlaw, webster, batum)... perhaps a package of 1 or 2 of them with Blake for a PG upgrade?

 

[azsun67]

Re: CBS Sports reporting Blazers after Turkoglu / Quick reports talks with Hedo's age

Hedo is better then Outlaw at defense. Who cares if the contract uses all of our space, this is the last time the Blazers have cap space until ?????? When we go out and get a new PG in a s and t we will be set. The extra 1.5mil is not going to be that big of a deal.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Re: CBS Sports reporting Blazers after Turkoglu / Quick reports talks with Hedo's age

I don't understand why the dollars a big deal at this point.... who cares if we sign him for 5 years at $50 million? We will be so far over the cap once Roy, Aldridge, and Oden sign extensions, it really won't matter at that point. I'm all for signing Hedo.

Also, I think we already have a deal in place for a point guard. It might be Kirk Hinrich. I really wouldn't be surprised if we sign Hedo and trade Blake/Outlaw for Kirk.

If Stern gets his way - a hard cap with no Bird rights - it becomes real important! It's not even the dollars as much as it is dollars over that long a period of time.


If it's true that Miller is willing to take only 3 years, why gamble 5 years on Hedo? We don't need him that long, and those last 2 years are likely to turn into charity!

 

[bluefrog]

Re: CBS Sports reporting Blazers after Turkoglu / Quick reports talks with Hedo's age

I agree that we should get players that address our biggest weakness: perimeter defense.

I totally agree with this. Hopefully we'll get a defensive PG to rectify this. Hedo will fit in well with the half court offense though.

The other thing I don't like about getting Turko is he does a lot of the same things Roy does and he needs the ball to be effective. He'll be option 2, taking shots away from aldridge and oden

We'll be better but I think we could find a better fit in this off season

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Re: CBS Sports reporting Blazers after Turkoglu / Quick reports talks with Hedo's age

I thought turk was priority?

YahooSportsNBA: Woj reports Gordon and Villanueva arrive in Detroit http://bit.ly/WcTVW

 

[Mediocre Man]

Re: Hedo Turkoglu Welcome Thread

if we sign hedo, what happens to the 3 small forwards we have now (outlaw, webster, batum)... perhaps a package of 1 or 2 of them with Blake for a PG upgrade?

Yes. I think that is the train of thought. Either that or move 1 of them to Orlando in a S&T with Hedo, then 1-2 of whoever is left for a PG upgrade.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Re: Hedo Turkoglu Welcome Thread

if we sign hedo, what happens to the 3 small forwards we have now (outlaw, webster, batum)... perhaps a package of 1 or 2 of them with Blake for a PG upgrade?

If we sign hedo, teams will score more on us- that's for sure.

 

[boatsandstars]

Re: Hedo Turkoglu Welcome Thread

Yes. I think that is the train of thought. Either that or move 1 of them to Orlando in a S&T with Hedo, then 1-2 of whoever is left for a PG upgrade.

thanks.

should be interesting. outside of the chris paul/deron wiliams fantasy. i'd love to get nash for a few years.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Re: Hedo Turkoglu Welcome Thread

If we sign hedo, teams will score more on us- that's for sure.

Right ... because Orlando was such an awful defensive team with he and Lewis at the two forward spots last year. You are really underselling his value at that end of the court; he's certainly no lock down wing defender, but he's better than Outlaw and Webster. If you really need a guy to go out and bulldog a player for 20 minutes that's what Nicolas is on the team for.

Here's the stats to back it up
http://www.82games.com/0809/08ORL10.HTM

floor time defensive stats of 93.2 (a good measure of team defense)
PER allowed of 13.2 at the small forward position and a +3.5 differential (indicating decent man defense).

 

[Mediocre Man]

Re: Hedo Turkoglu Welcome Thread

If we sign hedo, teams will score more on us- that's for sure.

Actually if you look at basketballreference.com, and compare Batum, Webster, Outlaw and Hedo it says differently.

For defensive rating (estimate of points allowed per 100 possessions

Hedo 104
Batum 107
Outlaw 109
Webster 110

Defensive win shares (estimate of numbers of wins contributed by a player due to his defense.)

Hedo 4.4
Outlaw 2.1
Batum 1.6
Webster 1.6

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Re: Hedo Turkoglu Welcome Thread

The best we can hope for with hedo is that we take him as a free agent, then do a sign & trade as Barrett suggested. It's just hard to think we'd take a step backwards as a team with him.

 

[hasoos]

Re: Hedo Turkoglu Welcome Thread

Way to curse us Kingspeed. I am sure now that you have posted this it won't happen.

 

[Shooter]

Re: Hedo Turkoglu Welcome Thread

Anybody else concerned about Hedo's age? What if the guy has already peaked at 30, and is starting downhill? I'd hate to see us sign him to a 5-year contract and then be saddlled with a declining player while our core keeps getting better.

 

[blue32]

Re: Hedo Turkoglu Welcome Thread

Anybody else concerned about Hedo's age? What if the guy has already peaked at 30, and is starting downhill? I'd hate to see us sign him to a 5-year contract and then be saddlled with a declining player while our core keeps getting better.

Yah. I'm not a fan of the Hedo signing..... call me crazy...

 

[LittleAlex]

Re: CBS Sports reporting Blazers after Turkoglu / Quick reports talks with Hedo's age

You should all read the article by Thorpe on Hedo at true hoop. The one thing Hedo does extremely well is the side pick and roll with a center. What is the one play Portland almost never ran that they should have run all the damn time? The pick and roll with Oden.

If Hedo comes to Portland and can get Oden the ball even 4 times a game with that play he is worth it.

 

[julius]

Re: Hedo Turkoglu Welcome Thread

Anybody else concerned about Hedo's age? What if the guy has already peaked at 30, and is starting downhill? I'd hate to see us sign him to a 5-year contract and then be saddlled with a declining player while our core keeps getting better.

I don't see why that matters. It won't keep us from re-signing Oden, Brandon or LaMarcus. If Hedo (assuming he signed) is past his prime in 3 years, it just opens the door for Batum (assuming he's on the team and not traded in this scenario) to take over.

It actually seems perfect. Hedo could be that vet off the bench by that time, in a James Posey/LaMar Odom (without the "I'm a huge turd burglar" feel to him) role. Sure, he'd be over-paid, but if we're winning championships or contending and winning some, who cares?

I don't see how the mythical players that so many fans are convinced we "could've" traded for, actually were worth the vitriol that fans have spewed (not you personally).

Some interesting numbers regarding at least 2 of the players I remember people wanting us to trade for earlier. Jefferson and Carter. Granted, I would've liked to have seen Jefferson, but c'est la vie.

Jefferson is 14 months younger than Hedo.
Carter is 2 years older.

Here is another player also pined for. Deng

Deng is younger than Hedo (by I think 5-6 years). But who knows if he was honestly on the market.

 

[ABM]

Re: Hedo Turkoglu Welcome Thread

So, KP and Penn called Brandon and Aldridge - but no Oden - prior to contacting Hedo's agent?

No big, I guess. But, at least a bit interesting to me.....for whatever reason.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Re: Hedo Turkoglu Welcome Thread

I'm torn with Hedo. At first I was dead set against it. Then I watched a lot of him play in the playoffs and I was kind of intrigued. It worries me that he's kind of lumbering (I remember him being quite the athlete in Sacto) but he's very crafty and very clutch. But then I stopped watching, and talked myself out of it again:

I agree that Turkoglu would be a strange target, and here's one reason: 82Games.com ranks each team by PER difference/position. It's one rough way to work out where you have strengths and weaknesses. Our rank in SF is 7th in the league! Behind
Cleveland (obviously)
Denver (makes sense)
Philly (Iggy's pretty good)
Boston (I hear Paul Pierce is the Truth)
OKC (didn't they pick somebody after Greg Oden?)
Indiana (Danny Granger)

Then it's Portland. Some key other teams:
Orlando (11)
Lakers (12)
Chicago (13)
Memphis (19)

Here are all our positional rankings:
PF: 2 (!)
SG: 3 (no surprise there)
C: 16 (!!!! I imagine that should change soon)
PG: 16

So, by that metric, and assuming C will improve by itself, PG is our key weakness.

BUT, I've thought about it even more and I'm talking myself round. For one thing, the analysis above looks objective, but hides a lot of subjectivity. For example, who decides who's playing SF for each of the teams to be able to come up with the numbers? Sometimes Roy plays SF - do his numbers playing SF get added (which would help explain why we're surprisingly strong) or not? Or, because he sometimes plays SF, are all his numbers added (even more so)?

Perhaps it's better not to think in terms of positions, and instead think in terms of team weaknesses. One big team weakness is ability to run the pick and roll. Well, supposedly Hedo is great at that. We need better ballhandling out of our SFs. Also check. Plus, having Hedo at SF might help fix some of the weaknesses at PG. With non-ball-handlers at SF we had to play a stereotypical, reliable PG (Blake) a lot of minutes, because we couldn't have Roy be the only "safe" ball handler. But with Hedo, we could afford to play Bayless or (my fave idea, except on defense) Rudy. So an interesting question is: if we do sign Hedo, whose minutes will be most affected? Maybe Blake's will be cut more than you'd otherwise think. Maybe we could even trade Blake for a veteran backup 4 (although that would be risky, and Blake is actually well suited to be a spot up 3-shooter for Hedo to feed).

Finally, the fact that Howard is bleating that he doesn't want Hedo to go bodes well for how Oden would benefit from Hedo's presence. Having a 6'10" guy feeding the post makes it much more likely that the pass will get there. (Not to mention the pick and roll stuff.)

Finally finally: we lost Sergio, so I was despairing of seeing backdoor alley-oops from Rudy ever again. BUT: [video=youtube;T6EHymC25RM]

There! I did it! I talked myself round. That means we're bound not to get him.

 

[B-Roy]

Re: Hedo Turkoglu Welcome Thread

So, KP and Penn called Brandon and Aldridge - but no Oden - prior to contacting Hedo's agent?

No big, I guess. But, at least a bit interesting to me.....for whatever reason.

Oden doesn't have an extension coming up.

 

[ABM]

Re: Hedo Turkoglu Welcome Thread

Oden doesn't have an extension coming up.

Good point.

 

[hasoos]

Re: Hedo Turkoglu Welcome Thread

Anybody else concerned about Hedo's age? What if the guy has already peaked at 30, and is starting downhill? I'd hate to see us sign him to a 5-year contract and then be saddlled with a declining player while our core keeps getting better.

Actually no, because I expect Batum to take over starting in a few years anyhow. At the point where Hedo starts to decline he can be a bench scoring guy.

The other thing I would point out is, who cares how old he is down the line if we win a ring. That is the goal is it not? Win it all. Not to have a younger team. Not to have a dynasty. Just to win it all at least once. Once you win it once, then you can start talking about other things. But don't get ahead of yourself.

 

[hasoos]

Re: CBS Sports reporting Blazers after Turkoglu / Quick reports talks with Hedo's age

If Hedo is our true target, which I don't believe he is, his playmaking, smarts, experience will make us better. No question about that. Still, Portland's got some tricks up their sleeves. What we are hearing has got to be smoke.

I hate it when I hear smoke. That usually means it is coming out of my ears because I am mad.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Re: Hedo Turkoglu Welcome Thread

So, KP and Penn called Brandon and Aldridge - but no Oden - prior to contacting Hedo's agent?

No big, I guess. But, at least a bit interesting to me.....for whatever reason.

Because Brandon and LaMarcus are eligible for contract extensions. Greg isn't. They didn't call them to specifically discuss Hedo, they called them to begin discussing their upcoming contract extensions.

BNM

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Re: CBS Sports reporting Blazers after Turkoglu / Quick reports talks with Hedo's age

You should all read the article by Thorpe on Hedo at true hoop. The one thing Hedo does extremely well is the side pick and roll with a center. What is the one play Portland almost never ran that they should have run all the damn time? The pick and roll with Oden.

If Hedo comes to Portland and can get Oden the ball even 4 times a game with that play he is worth it.

This was my thought. Hedo knows how to play with a big man . . . and if the Blazer future lies in the development and production of Greg Oden, Hedo is a great free agent to go after.

 

[RoyToy]

Re: CBS Sports reporting Blazers after Turkoglu / Quick reports talks with Hedo's age

I'm still on the fence on this one. He's obviously an upgrade, but is he worth it? I just don't know.

If you remember back to the Rockets series McMillan went with Rudy at the 3(which I was hugely against) in game 6 because he thought the Blazers needed more scoring, and that's why the Blazers seem to be trying to acquire Hedo. I still think a PG is more important than a SF, but I'll just have to try and trust KP on this one.

 

[B-Roy]

Re: CBS Sports reporting Blazers after Turkoglu / Quick reports talks with Hedo's age

I agree with many posters here. I would be disappointed if this happened. I am not a Hedo fan, and don't think we need a no-defense playing outside shooter at the 3. I think we need more of a defender, cutter, high energy, fast break type guy to balance out our lineup.

I don't get where the "no-defense" perception comes from?

 

[crandc]

Re: Hedo Turkoglu Welcome Thread

Wasn't it Hedo who hit the buzzer beater against Portland last season?

He's a clutch shooter, and they age well. Even if he can't run up and down as much in a couple of years, the shooter's touch tends to still be there, so he could still be a good role player. How many years are Portland giving him anyway?

I saw him a lot in Sacramento and saw nothing that made me oppose him. And having been happy in Sacramento, he'll do just fine in Portland.

BTW, anyone know if there is any Turkish-American community in Portland, or Oregon?

And remember he's not projected as the core of the team, that already exists. He's projected to fill a need and I think he'll do that.

 

[handiman]

Re: CBS Sports reporting Blazers after Turkoglu / Quick reports talks with Hedo's age

I was very high on Hedo up through the Conference Finals. I cooled on him mightily after the Lakers series... However, I can't help but wonder if some of his fall-off was attributable to fatigue, rather than being exposed? After all, he looked much better on both ends of the court (especially defense) against LeBron. With the Lakers, he had his hands full with Odom and Ariza, then had to move over to guard Kobe when it was clear no other Magic could. (The match up was much more favorable against the Cavs, with there being no significant SG to key on.) Also, Hedo had been carrying the team as the primary playmaker for much of the season with Jameer down... And as Roy alluded to this year, he built himself up last summer to get accustomed to the longer season in the form of a playoff run. Hedo may have simply wore down at the end.

 

[hasoos]

Re: CBS Sports reporting Blazers after Turkoglu / Quick reports talks with Hedo's age

I am really in disbelief about some of the reaction here.

1. Our starting forward averaged 5 points per game last year, and people wonder why Ron Artest and Battier had such a easy time beating on Roy and making his life difficult. Fucking wake up people. If Brandon Roy keeps taking the beating he is taking carrying this team he will be hurt like Dwayne Wade in no time. In case you haven't been paying attention to current events, the team has a really hard time winning without Roy. As Roy goes, the team goes.

2. As said above, Hedo knows how to play the pick and roll, and he gets to the line, about 3/4 the rate that Brandon Roy does. eFG% of .478 means he effectively scores approximately 48% of the time he takes a shot. That is tremendously efficient at either getting his shot or a free throw line attempt.

3. So somehow he is a worse defender than Outlaw? Are you kidding me? Outlaw is as bad as defender as there is. Hedo is a better defender than him any day of the week. Hedo's problem on defense is focus. He will play good defense while focused, and every once in a while he loses that focus. A good defensive coach will keep him focused. That is what we have.

4. Smarts. Hedo is smart. He is almost the opposite of Travis, who has little basketball IQ, and Batum, who has no experience. He will take advantage of mismatches on switches and he will pass over the top of smaller players who he can easily see over.

5. He wins his battle at SF most nights. His PER average is +3.5 higher than his opponents average for the season. How long has it been since we had a small forward who won most of their battles. Even if he doesn't win them all, he will at least show up and give you some consistent numbers, not throw a doughnut at you in the middle of the playoffs. By the way, Travis Outlaw loses that battle by 3.1 per night. Batum during his short minutes, loses by 1.6. Every night.

6. If Bayless becomes the PG on the team, Hedo provides another passer and playmaker on the floor to help take pressure off of him while he developes. Bayless can just be himself. Just like Courtney Lee in Orlando, he can be that guy they throw the ball to when there are few prescious seconds left who can create a bucket in a hurry.

7. Consistency. Good teams have consistent players. They do not have random players who show up every night and bring home the win. They have a few stars who do what stars do, and they have a bunch of guys who put on their hard hat and go to work, and put out a consistently good effort. Scoring in the teens, every night. Good rebounding, every night. Team defense, every night. Not scoring 20 points in one quarter of one game, and then dissappearing until you ge the right matchup against a slow footed PF on the perimeter again.