Merged: TIme to work the Trade Machine! [Possible Chris Paul trades]

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Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

B-Roy said:
According to reports, they denied that before the draft. What's changed? And don't say "Paul asked for a trade", he really has little leverage. If the Hornets know they are losing him anyways, they're going to take the best package, and I think there are better packages out there.
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Ok, so show us a better package.

I don't see anything from Orlando that looks real good. Cake's attempt has Brandon Bass as the centerpiece. No ending contracts. Not good.

Dallas doesn't have a package that looks good. Caron Butler is the ending contract and the best piece. I don't think NO would want him cause they don't want to pay him big money next summer. Beabois is a nice young player, but same position as Collison.

New York can offer up Gallinari and Chandler as the young talent to go with the Eddy Curry ending contract. That is ok I guess. But, Batum is the better prospect in my biased opinion. I am guessing that Monty tells them that Batum is the one he would rather get. But, if the Hornets want to ship Paul to the Eastern Conference, I suppose NY's deal is close to what we could do - Batum/Bayless vs. Gallinari/Chandler?

Unlike NY, however, the Blazers could up the ante, where NY has nothing left to give. Blazers could sub out Batum and offer Oden. Or, they could look for a 3-team deal, where the Blazers give up LaMarcus or Camby or Oden to a team that wants that player, and the 3rd team sends a young 7 footer on a cheap rookie deal to NO.
 
Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Hmmm, I can't find Paul Allen's new Malibu mansion on the ESPN Trade Checker, but I got that going to Shinn as part of the deal. Also, Shinn is hired as executive director of the EMP in Seattle, at a salary of 25 million a year for 5 years. And then Andre and Joel for Paul.
 
Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Nikolokolus said:
I'm going with the non-Blazer fan POV.
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That's your perspective. My perspective: there are four significant aspects for evaluating a trade piece--talent/skill, youth, cost, durability--which are generally of differing weights to individual organizations.

Paul v. Miller--Paul is younger and better, but Miller is cheaper and more durable

Okafor v. Oden--Okafor is more durable, but Oden is younger and cheaper. One can argue which is the better player, but I think most (even non-Blazer fans) would side with Oden here too.

Considering the high weight that NO likely places on cost when evaluating a trade, I think that Paul/Okafor v Miller/Oden is much closer than you suggest.
 
Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

PtldPlatypus said:
That's your perspective. My perspective: there are four significant aspects for evaluating a trade piece--talent/skill, youth, cost, durability--which are generally of differing weights to individual organizations.

Paul v. Miller--Paul is younger and better, but Miller is cheaper and more durable
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Miller is an expiring, and I think that is solely what New Orleans is going to view him as. They already have a young PG ready to take the reigns if Paul is traded in Collison.

They are going to be rebuilding if they trade Paul, not trying to compete. Miller does nothing for them in that regard.

Okafor v. Oden--Okafor is more durable, but Oden is younger and cheaper. One can argue which is the better player, but I think most (even non-Blazer fans) would side with Oden here too.
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Oden is without a doubt better, when he plays. I would imagine New Orleans would like him on the floor rather than on the bench, and if he's on the floor, one would have to argue how much he's going to end up costing at the end of the season. Probably more than Okafor.
 
Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Minstrel said:
I think it's only a comparable offer, personally.
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Also, though it is a much stronger offer from New York, I don't see how NY could make that offer - they would be sending all of their forwards to the Hornets - and the Hornets would still have Peja and Posey. Both team's would have absurd rosters after that trade.
 
Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Masbee said:
Also, though it is a much stronger offer from New York, I don't see how NY could make that offer - they would be sending all of their forwards to the Hornets - and the Hornets would still have Peja and Posey. Both team's would have absurd rosters after that trade.
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The Hornets would be rebuilding. Posey is useless as a player and Peja is an expiring anyways. Why would they care? Azubuike can swing from 2/3, Randolph swings from 3/4.

And New York is completely crazy and confident. I think they would push hard for Paul, fill out the roster with minimum players, then go after Melo, and convince him to stay that way.
 
Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

B-Roy said:
Agreed, but they knew that before Paul demanded a trade.

And with New York, given how crazy they are, and that they think they can pry Melo from Denver in FA, I would think they would push hard at Paul.
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How could NY go after Melo if they have Amare on a MAX deal, Paul on a MAX deal and they have to have Okafor on the team in order to get NO to make a deal. How can they possibly have cap room for Melo?
 
Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Masbee said:
How could NY go after Melo if they have Amare on a MAX deal, Paul on a MAX deal and they have to have Okafor on the team in order to get NO to make a deal. How can they possibly have cap room for Melo?
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There are many options, they would only have Amare and Okafor under contract in 2012, which, if we assume the cap stays the same, they could have ~26Million in cap space. Enough to sign one and then s/t for the other. Given what Bosh, James and Wade have done (and especially if they win a title), I can definitely see Paul and Melo taking a bit less, assuming they really did want to form another trio.

They could try dumping Okafor as well if he plays well.

Who knows if the new CBA has kicked him by then.

The Knicks are crazy, I think they'd pursue a ton of options.
 
Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

B-Roy said:
Well, I put Batum and Gallinari on the same level, prospect wise. Randolph over Bayless prospect wise.
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I place Batum and Randolph (exciting upside propositions with some measure of NBA success already) on the same level and Gallinari and Bayless (still largely unproven question marks who have not yet disappointed) on the same level.
 
Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Nikolokolus said:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2997hcq

:dunno:
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Guys we need to win this once in a generation trade sweepstakes where we have the biggest stack of chips. This is the best offer we can make IMO (because Oden and Roy are off the table in my mind):

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=25y6fz3

It's just so much cap relief and so much talent in return. We still keep the core three and add Paul and really aren't thin anywhere. I'm curious if someone can beat that trade without giving up Roy or Oden. Remember nobody is gonna want to help us here. We could trade LMA first to NJN for Favors + TPE and keep Batum but I don't like that as much.

THINK BIG guys an offer they can't refuse.
 
Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Cake said:
For the other teams on Chris Paul's list:

Orlando:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2839nne

That's seriously just about the best they can do, in my opinion. One decent prospect and one ending contract. Plus I guess Orlando could add the rights to Fran Vasquez and a couple picks. Meh.

For Dallas:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2a8gfkb

Doesn't really make sense, since Dallas' best prospect plays the same position as New Orleans' best prospect. Plus it's not a ton of ending contracts, so it doesn't exactly save a lot of money for New Orleans.

New York:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=29xoabq

the Knicks have so many contracts that can't be traded right now, it's impossible to make a deal that includes Okafor's contract, which I'm sure New Orleans would prefer to get rid of. But Gallinari and Wilson Chandler are good prospects.

--

I really think we have much more to offer.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2495vfg

Simple.
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Orlando could offer this and give up a good PG (duplicates Collison though) an averagish but CHEAP Center and a soon to expire mega contract with a wee bit of star power gas in the tank. Ok, basically no gas in the tank. OK OK, you would need Oil skimmers working 24/7 bringing in Oil from the gulf to refine to begin to fill Carter's tank which clearly has a hole in the bottom, but still!

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2a82gcw
 
Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Idog1976 said:
Guys we need to win this once in a generation trade sweepstakes where we have the biggest stack of chips. This is the best offer we can make IMO (because Oden and Roy are off the table in my mind):

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=25y6fz3

It's just so much cap relief and so much talent in return. We still keep the core three and add Paul and really aren't thin anywhere. I'm curious if someone can beat that trade without giving up Roy or Oden. Remember nobody is gonna want to help us here. We could trade LMA first to NJN for Favors + TPE and keep Batum but I don't like that as much.

THINK BIG guys an offer they can't refuse.
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That is thinking BIG ... I guess I hadn't considered taking on Posey too, but that certainly adds a body (even though he's pretty much a stiff) to plug into the small forward spot in a pinch (most likely behind Matthews).

Paul/Johnson/Mills
Roy/Matthews/Williams
Matthews/Posey/Babbitt
LMA/Cunningham
Oden/Okafor/Pendergraph

That's a pretty stacked 8 man rotation, with some youngsters to groom for the future in Babbitt, Mills, Williams and Johnson. You might want to find a really long wing defender down the line, and depending on Dante's development you might look for a better backup 4, but overall that team would pretty damn dangerous with pretty good balance.
 
Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

B-Roy said:
Well, I put Batum and Gallinari on the same level, prospect wise. Randolph over Bayless prospect wise. All the other parts are arguable one way or another, and the expirings are just expirings anyways, not pieces they are going to want in the long run. And on top of that, they dump Okafor instead of Posey.

Or NO could go for something like this:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2ft2fh2

Replace Kris Humphries with Favors because Favors can't be traded until sometime in August (Salaries are similar). This offers the Hornets instant cap relief, not expirings, a great prospect, an all-star they can trade for additional pieces (To Portland for example), and another good prospect.

Just throwing ideas out there.
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Randolph and Batum are comparable. Galinari and Bayless are also comparable but IMO Bayless has WAY more upside as he has't had a chance to get significant minutes and show what he can really do. Gallinari has and hasn't been very impressive IMO.

The thing is Randolph replicates West so he isn't as appealing IMO as Batum who is a SF and also is familiar to Monty. I hope to god Monty is pulling for us and pushes things in that direction.

Our potential offers, especially upping the ante like my proposed trade where we take back Okafor AND Posey are still better IMO.

Maybe someone can do some BBR player comparisons so we can see other stats like Drtg etc. to help parse it out. I feel like the trade to Portland just makes more sense for all involved minus the Sith Lord Stern factor.
 
Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

maxiep said:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2dsodw2

What I think Dallas could offer (along with some 1sts and some cash)
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The problem I see with that deal from New Orleans perspective is that they end up violating the "never trade big for small" rule; they'd be gutted in their front court -- left with nothing but West, Songalia, Gray and rookie Craig Brackins.
 
Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Nikolokolus said:
That is thinking BIG ... I guess I hadn't considered taking on Posey too, but that certainly adds a body (even though he's pretty much a stiff) to plug into the small forward spot in a pinch (most likely behind Matthews).
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Taking on Posey too is our silver bullet IMO and that we flesh out NOH quite well and make them both competitive right away and ready to gear down with salary cap relief. You add in Euros, Picks, draft rights and $3 million in cash even Dante and Pendy as well if NOH wants them, and I feel that's the best single team offer possible for NOH. Sure we could foolishly throw in Oden but that IMO fucks up the future in our front court. I know Oden is injured but he IS the best shot we have at overpowering the Heat and LAL.

When you add in familiarity with Monty I think that's the best offer available that I can think of. Again Sith Lord Stern could fuck this all up with bullshit tampering charges (That seems far fetched, fucking LeBron hello?!?!?), secret inducements/blackmail/mind control.
 
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Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Nikolokolus said:
The problem I see with that deal from New Orleans perspective is that they end up violating the "never trade big for small" rule; they'd be gutted in their front court -- left with nothing but West, Songalia, Gray and rookie Craig Brackins.
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Well, if they are committed to rebuilding, I think they'd end up moving West too.
 
Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

I'd hate to add Oden. He's really the difference between beating the Lakers, not Chris Paul. Not that CP3 can't, just that Oden dominating the paint is what it's going to take with them having Bynum/Gasol/Odom
 
Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

B-Roy said:
Well, if they are committed to rebuilding, I think they'd end up moving West too.
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Yeah, I'd read something like CP3 to Portland, West to Orlando. Some sports anchor in NO that said he has sources Portland has the pieces NO wants.
 
Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

RoyToy said:
I'd hate to add Oden. He's really the difference between beating the Lakers, not Chris Paul. Not that CP3 can't, just that Oden dominating the paint is what it's going to take with them having Bynum/Gasol/Odom
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Yep, Oden/Roy off the table period. The key is taking both Posey and Okafor for salary relief I think we're the only team in contention that can do both, give tons of young talent in positions of need AND not gut our own roster. Maybe NYK are willing to gut their own roster beyond the moons of Saturn to snag Paul, fuck that would piss me off. Really it's between us and the Knicks unless Cho is a moron. I would give Rudy's left nut to be a fly on the wall of NOH's GM offices.

This report as posted elsewhere gives me hope:

http://www.wdsu.com/offsidesblog/index.html

{updated: Thursday, July 22nd 1:15pm: Hornets source confirms that if Demps & Williams cannot convince CP3 to stay….they’ll start aggressively trying to move him. Source also says Portland has the pieces Monty and Demps covet…NOT NYC, Orlando or Dallas.)
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If we get Paul I'm going to start a Monty Williams statue Political Action Comittee. The goal would be to tear down Big Pink and replace it with a 200 foot statue of Monty.

Monty could help us now more then ever.
 
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Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Idog1976 said:
Taking on Posey too is our silver bullet IMO and that we flesh out NOH quite well and make them both competitive right away and ready to gear down with salary cap relief. You add in Euros, Picks, draft rights and $3 million in cash even Dante and Pendy as well if NOH wants them, and I feel that's the best single team offer possible for NOH. Sure we could foolishly throw in Oden but that IMO fucks up the future in our front court. I know Oden is injured but he IS the best shot we have at overpowering the Heat and LAL.
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If we're taking Posey too, then we sub Cunningham for Batum.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=28wdlas

NO is still getting huge cap relief as well as 3 good young prospects, and like you said we can throw in euros, picks, cash too.

Paul / Johnson / Mills / Williams
Roy / Matthews / Williams
Batum / Babbitt / Posey
Aldridge / Pendy
Oden / Okafur

:devilwink: (and then I woke up)
 
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