Merged: TIme to work the Trade Machine! [Possible Chris Paul trades]

[Minstrel]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Who? West?

Favors is the 3rd overall pick. Why is NJ trading Favors for a freaking TPE?

My guess is he meant turn Favors into a TPE in return for West.

 

[Idog1976]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=23xehth

Ok here we go MEGA CAP RELIEF for NOH.

They get close to 30 million in cap relief with 13.9 Million+ instantly from West plus Posey.

Plus they get relief from Joel

They get LMA and Bayless plus $30 million in relief by next summer. LMA becomes the piece they build around with Collison and Thorton.

NJN get a partner for Lopez and don't give up any assets but cap space. West being better then anyone next summer outside of Melo.

 

[B-Roy]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Not much point in you reading proposals past page 2 or so if you believe that. Batum will be the center piece and we get Paul with another trade mentioned in this thread.

Actually, Oden will be the centerpiece. Cho will see to it that Oden is purged from this team at the start of training camp.

 

[Idog1976]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

My guess is he meant turn Favors into a TPE in return for West.

No I meant turn WEST into a TPE.

 

[B-Roy]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

My guess is he meant turn Favors into a TPE in return for West.

Yeah, but then why does NO do it?

 

[Idog1976]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Actually, Oden will be the centerpiece. Cho will see to it that Oden is purged from this team at the start of training camp.

I already got baited by a "master" last night, shall not rise for this one...

 

[Idog1976]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Yeah, but then why does NO do it?

This is why:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=23xehth

Ok here we go MEGA CAP RELIEF for NOH.

They get close to 30 million in cap relief with 13.9 Million+ instantly from West plus Posey.

Plus they get near immediate relief from Joel

They get LMA and Bayless plus $30 million in relief by next summer. LMA becomes the piece they build around with Collison and Thorton. They also get Miller training wheels for a year to mentor Collison.

NJN get a partner for Lopez and don't give up any assets but cap space. West being better then anyone next summer outside of Melo.

Plus the usual throw in 3 million (don't under estimate that for Shinn), picks, draft rights, rook SnT, euros etc.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

No I meant turn WEST into a TPE.

Okay, sorry then. But that doesn't make sense to me. How would New Orleans trade a TPE instead of West, and why would NJ trade Favors for a TPE?

 

[Minstrel]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

This is why:

I think you're confused...that is what I said about what you meant: Remove Favors from the equation and put in a TPE instead. Thus "Turn Favors into a TPE" in your scenario.

 

[Idog1976]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Okay, sorry then. But that doesn't make sense to me. How would New Orleans trade a TPE instead of West, and why would NJ trade Favors for a TPE?

Ok maybe i'm an idiot. I thought you called it a TPE when you trade say West to a team like NJN who can absorb his contract without returning salary?

 

[B-Roy]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Why does NJ want West or Posey anyways? They aren't playoff material with either of them. West has a PO for his second year, so he'd likely be a one year rental for them. He's underpaid as it is, I can't see him staying around in NJ. Not to mention they drafted their PFOTF in Favors.

Then there's the obvious hurdle of a three team trade, where the third team has a disproportional amount of leverage and can easily kill the deal by demanding more or less from the other teams.

 

[Idog1976]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

I think you're confused...that is what I said about what you meant: Remove Favors from the equation and put in a TPE instead. Thus "Turn Favors into a TPE" in your scenario.

Ah, yes I misread you...I think? I'm definitely confused at this point.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Ok maybe i'm an idiot. I thought you called it a TPE when you trade say West to a team like NJN who can absorb his contract without returning salary?

Hehe, yes, that's the case. You just misinterpreted what I said in my post. When I said "I think he means turn Favors into a TPE," I meant that you were replacing Favors in the deal with a TPE. Not that Favors was being traded for a TPE.

 

[Idog1976]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Why does NJ want West or Posey anyways? They aren't playoff material with either of them. West has a PO for his second year, so he'd likely be a one year rental for them. He's underpaid as it is, I can't see him staying around in NJ. Not to mention they drafted their PFOTF in Favors.

Then there's the obvious hurdle of a three team trade, where the third team has a disproportional amount of leverage and can easily kill the deal by demanding more or less from the other teams.

You're right about Favors. Fuck. Trying to figure something out other then rehash.

 

[Jayps15]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

But that's the thing, if they're rebuilding, they wouldn't even pay West long term, they'd let him walk or trade him away for picks/talent.


What would New Orleans rather have? A cheap core of Collison, Thornton, Batum, and picks, or an expensive core of Collison, Thornton, and Aldridge? I think it's pretty obvious that Batum holds a lot more value in any Paul trade.


Well that's something nobody knows. I would guess (And this is just me guessing) that Monty would have an affinity to Batum.

Letting West just walk would be bad for their rebuild when they can try and get some kind of asset for him, it's not like he's just an expiring, he's got on court value to a lot of teams.

How would having Aldridge suddenly give them an expensive core? It's an assumption but say they make the deal I proposed and then traded West for a pick or a player still on the rookie scale for a few years plus an expiring. They then let Peja/Songaila/Wright/Miller/Pryz expire and walk. That leaves them with:

LMA- 11.8mil
Bayless- 3.0mil
Rudy- 2.2mil
Babbitt- 1.8mil
Williams- 1.3mil
Collison- 1.4
Brackins- 1.4
Pondexter- 1.2

Thats 24.1mil plus the salaries of a resigned Thornton, all their picks, and whatever Aaron Gray makes(can't be much). They'd still have room for a max free agent next summer with cap room leftover, of course if they trade away Paul and West and go into rebuild mode most good free agents won't be interested in going there anyway, but they'd probably be better off attracting someone with a core including Aldridge than with one including Batum (barring Batum becoming an 18ppg scorer or something).

Like you said we can't really know what Monty thinks, but while he might see more upside in Batum, he might also see more immediate help/value in Aldridge. If he doesn't do well who's to say the Hornets keep him as coach, then he wouldn't be around to see the fruits of any of his labor, and it might be hard for him to get a 2nd chance as a head coach if the Hornets don't do well under his command. Potential job security through winning is compelling.

 

[Idog1976]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

How about this:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2cfxwvm

Toronto gets West to replace Bosh and NOH gets a package centered around LMA and cap relief.

Alternately you trade LMA for a bigger TPE and then swing that to NOH in a second deal that is nearly simultaneous. Would that work? The problem with the second is too little talent for NOH but bigger salary relief.

 

[Idog1976]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Letting West just walk would be bad for their rebuild when they can try and get some kind of asset for him, it's not like he's just an expiring, he's got on court value to a lot of teams.

How would having Aldridge suddenly give them an expensive core? It's an assumption but say they make the deal I proposed and then traded West for a pick or a player still on the rookie scale for a few years plus an expiring. They then let Peja/Songaila/Wright/Miller/Pryz expire and walk. That leaves them with:

LMA- 11.8mil
Bayless- 3.0mil
Rudy- 2.2mil
Babbitt- 1.8mil
Williams- 1.3mil
Collison- 1.4
Brackins- 1.4
Pondexter- 1.2

Thats 24.1mil plus the salaries of a resigned Thornton, all their picks, and whatever Aaron Gray makes(can't be much). They'd still have room for a max free agent next summer with cap room leftover, of course if they trade away Paul and West and go into rebuild mode most good free agents won't be interested in going there anyway, but they'd probably be better off attracting someone with a core including Aldridge than with one including Batum (barring Batum becoming an 18ppg scorer or something).

Like you said we can't really know what Monty thinks, but while he might see more upside in Batum, he might also see more immediate help/value in Aldridge. If he doesn't do well who's to say the Hornets keep him as coach, then he wouldn't be around to see the fruits of any of his labor, and it might be hard for him to get a 2nd chance as a head coach if the Hornets don't do well under his command. Potential job security through winning is compelling.

Excellent post, would rep but I can't again in such short time and I don't know how to Wrap you. Are you a lurking Cho by any chance? Or a bored Tom Penn pretending to play at his old job for kicks?

 

[B-Roy]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Letting West just walk would be bad for their rebuild when they can try and get some kind of asset for him, it's not like he's just an expiring, he's got on court value to a lot of teams.

That's why I said they could also trade him for picks/assets. I'm sure they could find a suitor.

How would having Aldridge suddenly give them an expensive core? It's an assumption but say they make the deal I proposed and then traded West for a pick or a player still on the rookie scale for a few years plus an expiring. They then let Peja/Songaila/Wright/Miller/Pryz expire and walk. That leaves them with:

Now let's replace that with Batum.

Batum- 1.5mil
Bayless- 3.0mil
Rudy- 2.2mil
Babbitt- 1.8mil
Williams- 1.3mil
Collison- 1.4
Brackins- 1.4
Pondexter- 1.2
Thornton-???

Now that's a VERY enviable position. Great young talent at 4 positions, and an extraordinary amount of flexibility. If we're just gauging the opinion of Blazer fans, Batum has as much, if not more potential than Aldridge. So why go for the more expensive player who hasn't improved much over three years?

Like you said we can't really know what Monty thinks, but while he might see more upside in Batum, he might also see more immediate help/value in Aldridge. If he doesn't do well who's to say the Hornets keep him as coach, then he wouldn't be around to see the fruits of any of his labor, and it might be hard for him to get a 2nd chance as a head coach if the Hornets don't do well under his command. Potential job security through winning is compelling.

I don't think the Hornets are much better, if at all, with Aldridge instead of Batum, and I say this as more of an Aldridge fan than Batum fan. Their team is going to suck, a lot, but that's what you get when you're rebuilding, and management is going to know what.

For any rebuilding team, Batum is just a safer bet. He's cheap, bursting with potential, and younger.

 

[Idog1976]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

That's why I said they could also trade him for picks/assets. I'm sure they could find a suitor.



Now let's replace that with Batum.

Batum- 1.5mil
Bayless- 3.0mil
Rudy- 2.2mil
Babbitt- 1.8mil
Williams- 1.3mil
Collison- 1.4
Brackins- 1.4
Pondexter- 1.2
Thornton-???

Now that's a VERY enviable position. Great young talent at 4 positions, and an extraordinary amount of flexibility. If we're just gauging the opinion of Blazer fans, Batum has as much, if not more potential than Aldridge. So why go for the more expensive player who hasn't improved much over three years?


I don't think the Hornets are much better, if at all, with Aldridge instead of Batum, and I say this as more of an Aldridge fan than Batum fan. Their team is going to suck, a lot, but that's what you get when you're rebuilding, and management is going to know what.

For any rebuilding team, Batum is just a safer bet. He's cheap, bursting with potential, and younger.

did West get traded in your mind or are you saying another trade would follow on the heels of the CP3 one? Yes, I saw your first sentence. Just wanted clarification.

 

[B-Roy]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

did West get traded in your mind or are you saying another trade would follow on the heels of the CP3 one? Yes, I saw your first sentence. Just wanted clarification.

I'm saying another trade would follow. But even if it didn't, West would most certainly opt out after the year was done anyways.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Now that's a VERY enviable position. Great young talent at 4 positions, and an extraordinary amount of flexibility. If we're just gauging the opinion of Blazer fans, Batum has as much, if not more potential than Aldridge. So why go for the more expensive player who hasn't improved much over three years?

Cap flexibility is somewhat overrated. How many players better than Aldridge do you think they'll entice to sign free agent contracts with them? If they're lucky they might get one...but they'd have room for one even with Aldridge. Getting two or more players superior to Aldridge (i.e. star players, as Aldridge is the next step down from star) is pretty remote, IMO.

So, ultimately, in that situation they're likely hoping for one max-level guy and one good complementary player of the caliber of Aldridge, in the cold light of realism (not New York/New Jersey style "We'll get 2-3 superstars" type of optimism). So why would they be averse to getting the "Aldridge-caliber" player for sure, rather than hoping they get him with cap space?

And yes, I think Batum is more valuable after factoring in contract. But I wouldn't be surprised if many outsiders saw Aldridge as significantly more valuable due to his being a bigger name and having better raw per-game stats.

 

[B-Roy]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Cap flexibility is somewhat overrated. How many players better than Aldridge do you think they'll entice to sign free agent contracts with them? If they're lucky they might get one...but they'd have room for one even with Aldridge. Getting two or more players superior to Aldridge (i.e. star players, as Aldridge is the next step down from star) is pretty remote, IMO.

It's not just free agents, but the chance to absorb players from other teams that are in unfavorable positions. For example, OKC absorbing Daequan Cook to go along with a first round pick. Or to pull off unbalanced trades. For example (AND THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE), trading someone like Pondexter for Chris Kaman.

So, ultimately, in that situation they're likely hoping for one max-level guy and one good complementary player of the caliber of Aldridge, in the cold light of realism (not New York/New Jersey style "We'll get 2-3 superstars" type of optimism). So why would they be averse to getting the "Aldridge-caliber" player for sure, rather than hoping they get him with cap space?

Well for one, everyone's telling me Batum is better anyways, so at the very least, they save some moolah for a few years.

And yes, I think Batum is more valuable after factoring in contract. But I wouldn't be surprised if many outsiders saw Aldridge as significantly more valuable due to his being a bigger name and having better raw per-game stats.

Well I share that opinion (maybe not significantly more valuable). But for a rebuilding team, I think Batum has a pretty significant edge.

 

[Trader Ed]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

yeah Masbee... agreed.. There is no room for him to come back.... I would just hate to see Oden go

 

[Idog1976]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

yeah Masbee... agreed.. There is no room for him to come back.... I would just hate to see Oden go

If Oden goes it better be with filler e.g. JPEC + AMEC and NO Batum. I also anticipate heatbreak closer, but still to far from the banner.

I'd rather trade Roy because of CP3's impact on the rest of the guys to be honest.

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

3-team trade proposal

Accepted ESPN trade machine


Cleveland obtains:

Camby
Okafor
Bayless


New Orleans obtains:

Pryzbilla (insurance pays salary)
Miller (one year to go)
Varejao
Rudy Fernandez
+ cash and Portland picks


Portland obtains:

CP3
Jamison

 

[oldmangrouch]

Re: 3-team trade proposal

Pass.

I would rather take on Okafor, who is overpaid but can still play, rather than Jamison. His contract is just as ugly and he showed last year that the end of the trail for his career is in sight.

(Actually, I would take Varejao over either. Figure out how to pull that off, and you will be my internet hero of the day!)

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

Re: 3-team trade proposal

Pass.

I would rather take on Okafor, who is overpaid but can still play, rather than Jamison. His contract is just as ugly and he showed last year that the end of the trail for his career is in sight.

(Actually, I would take Varejao over either. Figure out how to pull that off, and you will be my internet hero of the day!)

Ok,

This actually works on paper, but I don't think NO or Cleveland buy in:

Cleveland gets:
Bayless SG/PG
Pendergraph PF
Okafor C

Portland gets:
Paul PG
Varejao PF

New Orleans gets:
Camby PF/C
Pryzbilla C
Fernandez SG
Moon SF
J.J. Hickson PF


This leaves us with both Paul and Miller, which I'm fine with. Come trade deadline, we have a veteran, expiring contract to move, if need be.

 

[Rhal]

Re: 3-team trade proposal

Ok,

This actually works on paper, but I don't think NO or Cleveland buy in:

Cleveland gets:
Bayless SG/PG
Pendergraph PF
Okafor C

Portland gets:
Paul PG
Varejao PF

New Orleans gets:
Camby PF/C
Pryzbilla C
Fernandez SG
Moon SF
J.J. Hickson PF


This leaves us with both Paul and Miller, which I'm fine with. Come trade deadline, we have a veteran, expiring contract to move, if need be.

I don't think Cleveland will like that trade. They seem to value JJ more then we do Batum.

 

[Public Defender]

Paul trades that work under the cap

I've found two combinations that work so far, in both cases, the Blazers get Chris Paul and Emeka Okafor.

In scenario 1, the Blazers send out: Camby, Przbilla, Miller, Bayless and Fernandez.

In scenario 2, the Blazers send out: Oden, Przybilla, Miller, Bayless and Fernandez.

Both trades work on the Trade Checker at Real GM.

I've been trying to concoct a scenario where the Blazers give up Batum without giving up Oden or Camby, but haven't been able to figure it out yet.

Anyone figured out one that does work?

Personally, I'd be inclined to give up Camby rather than Oden, although it's a tough one. The Blazers would receive back Okafor, who's not a bad player at all, he's just overpaid and is limited offensively.

 

[Public Defender]

Re: Paul trades that work under the cap

BTW: It's possible to swap in Batum instead of Bayless, but I'm not sure the Blazers would want to do that. Likewise, the Blazers could hold onto Fernandez, and trade Batum instead (along with the Oden/Camby, Joel, Miller combo mentioned above), but I'm pretty certain the Blazers would rather keep Batum than Fernandez.