Merged: TIme to work the Trade Machine! [Possible Chris Paul trades]

[B-Roy]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

On a different not.
Question, in your proposed trade the Blazers would need to make up ~ 2.937 mil. If they include rudy 1.24mil, that would be reduced to about 1.7 mil. Could the Blazers S&T a vet min contract (about 1.3-1.4) and S&T a min contract (like to Mills)(about 0.4mil) just to make up the rest of the bill and complete the Paul trade?

Generally, a player cannot be traded until three months after signing a contract or December 15th of that season, whichever is later.

Under no circumstances can a team sign and then trade another team's free agent. But there is a rule that allows teams to re-sign their own free agents for trading purposes, called the sign-and-trade rule. Under the sign-and-trade rule, the player is re-signed and immediately traded to another team. This is done by adding a clause to the contract which stipulates that the contract is invalid if the player's rights are not traded to the specific team within 48 hours.

Does that answer your question?

 

[Further]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Does that answer your question?

So the Blazers could give Patty Mills a one year S&T for 1.7mil and use him in the deal?

 

[B-Roy]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

So the Blazers could give Patty Mills a one year S&T for 1.7mil and use him in the deal?

Yes...assuming the Hornets would agree to that as well.

 

[ironcrotch]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Does this make sense for everyone? Was messing around and thought this might work for all the teams.

Edit* looking at it now, we maybe giving up too much.

3 way with NY/POR/NO

NO receives young players and 3 great expirings. Portland receives CP3. NY gives up Eddy's fat contract and turns into a similar painful one with Emeka but he would be a good center to put alongside Amare since Amare is better at PF. They also get Rudy who would fit that system nicely. The only issue is that Emekas contract might eat up room for Melo if thats what they eye.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=23ckvug

NO Outgoing
CP3
Okafor
Posey

NO Incoming
Miller
Pryz
Batum
Bayless
Eddy Curry

POR Outgoing
Miller
Pryz
Rudy
Bayless
Batum

POR Incoming
CP3
Posey

NY Outgoing
Eddy Curry

NY Incoming
Okafor
Rudy

 

[Further]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Yes...assuming the Hornets would agree to that as well.

Well the reason they might is because constructing the trade that way would assure NOH saves every penny they possibly could in the +/- 125% trade matching rule. And Mills would be just one year.

 

[Further]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Does this make sense for everyone? Was messing around and thought this might work for all the teams.

3 way with NY/POR/NO

NO receives young players and 3 great expirings. Portland receives CP3. NY gives up Eddy's fat contract and turns into a similar painful one with Emeka but he would be a good center to put alongside Amare since Amare is better at PF. They also get Rudy who would fit that system nicely. The only issue is that Emekas contract might eat up room for Melo if thats what they eye.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=23ckvug

NO Outgoing
CP3
Okafur
Posey

NO Incoming
Miller
Pryz
Batum
Bayless
Eddy Curry

POR Outgoing
Miller
Pryz
Rudy
Bayless
Batum

POR Incoming
CP3
Posey

NY Outgoing
Eddy Curry

NY Incoming
Okafur
Rudy

No. NY would not do that. Not even close.

 

[B-Roy]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Well the reason they might is because constructing the trade that way would assure NOH saves every penny they possibly could in the +/- 125% trade matching rule. And Mills would be just one year.

I would think that they'd rather have Cunningham (Who Monty personally worked with), and one of Babbitt/Williams. The salary difference is really minuscule in this case, and Cunningham+Babbitt/Williams are just so much better in terms of talent and prospects.

 

[Further]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

I would think that they'd rather have Cunningham (Who Monty personally worked with), and one of Babbitt/Williams. The salary difference is really minuscule in this case, and Cunningham+Babbitt/Williams are just so much better in terms of talent and prospects.

Or cunningham (.7mil) and mills (S&T 1mil)

 

[B-Roy]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Or cunningham (.7mil) and mills (S&T 1mil)

Again, it depends on which player NO would rather have. (Assuming the rest of the framework follows through)

I personally think Williams and Babbitt are both much much better prospects than Mills.

 

[Trader Ed]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

I would do this and give them all expiring contracts and tell GO we will max him out next summer in a *Wink wink deal

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=38vzcxa

POR OUT
Oden, Przybilla and Miller (No Batum), add in cash and draft picks

POR IN
Paul and Okafor

Everyone including Oden can be an expiring contract if that is what they want. And if they want to re-up Oden, they can


PG Paul, Bayless, Mills or Johnson
SG Roy, Matthews, Fernandez, Williams
SF Batum, Cunningham, Babbitt
PF LMA, Pendergraph
C Okafor, Camby

still leaves you with Rudy to deal

 

[Jayps15]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

My feelings are that any trade I would like from a Blazer perspective involves our expirings, Bayless/Rudy/Babbit/Williams as prospects, picks+cash, and 1 only of Batum/Oden/Aldridge as the centerpiece young talent. It's similar to Minny's KG for Big Al + expirings + picks+ Telfair/Gomes etc, that seems like the formula that realistically gets something like this done. I personally would rather that the centerpiece be Aldridge instead of Batum or Oden, I just like both of their games better. I know some are concerned because Paul said he would like to play with Roy and LMA, but if we win I don't think it's an issue.

If NOH trades Paul and goes into rebuild mode what are the chances West sticks around? He's got a player option next year that's actually under his value, so he's probably likely to opt out no matter the fate of Paul, and if the Hornets are in full on youth/rebuild mode they can't think his chances of sticking around are all that high. We've all though that Aldridge becomes redundant in any Hornets trade because of West but the more I think about it, the more I think the Hornets would like Aldridge so they could then in turn trade West for even more assets in their rebuild before they lose him for nothing next summer.

Something I think is realistic, but has to wait until after Aug 7th because of the signing restrictions:

Aldridge, Bayless, Rudy, Babbitt, E. Williams, Miller, and Pryz + picks and cash
for
Paul, Okafor, and Posey

It barely works because of Aldridge's BYC status, but it does, and Cunningham could be included as well I believe for a small bit of added value. Like I said if that happens I think NOH immediately starts looking for a trade destination for West because without Paul he's unlikely to stay a Hornet for more than 1 season.

NOH has a Collison/Thornton/Aldridge young core with alot of young guys to test out and they save alot of money over the next 3 years.

It leaves us with a lineup of:

Paul/Roy/Batum/Camby/Oden
with
Mattews and Okafor the main men off the bench with anyone left of Johnson/Mills/Pend/Cunningham having to fill in the gaps.

Next offseason try and do something like Carl Landry for the full MLE, and I think Paul would almost be a lock to stick around.

 

[Idog1976]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

My feelings are that any trade I would like from a Blazer perspective involves our expirings, Bayless/Rudy/Babbit/Williams as prospects, picks+cash, and 1 only of Batum/Oden/Aldridge as the centerpiece young talent. It's similar to Minny's KG for Big Al + expirings + picks+ Telfair/Gomes etc, that seems like the formula that realistically gets something like this done. I personally would rather that the centerpiece be Aldridge instead of Batum or Oden, I just like both of their games better. I know some are concerned because Paul said he would like to play with Roy and LMA, but if we win I don't think it's an issue.

If NOH trades Paul and goes into rebuild mode what are the chances West sticks around? He's got a player option next year that's actually under his value, so he's probably likely to opt out no matter the fate of Paul, and if the Hornets are in full on youth/rebuild mode they can't think his chances of sticking around are all that high. We've all though that Aldridge becomes redundant in any Hornets trade because of West but the more I think about it, the more I think the Hornets would like Aldridge so they could then in turn trade West for even more assets in their rebuild before they lose him for nothing next summer.

Something I think is realistic, but has to wait until after Aug 7th because of the signing restrictions:

Aldridge, Bayless, Rudy, Babbitt, E. Williams, Miller, and Pryz + picks and cash
for
Paul, Okafor, and Posey

It barely works because of Aldridge's BYC status, but it does, and Cunningham could be included as well I believe for a small bit of added value. Like I said if that happens I think NOH immediately starts looking for a trade destination for West because without Paul he's unlikely to stay a Hornet for more than 1 season.

NOH has a Collison/Thornton/Aldridge young core with alot of young guys to test out and they save alot of money over the next 3 years.

It leaves us with a lineup of:

Paul/Roy/Batum/Camby/Oden
with
Mattews and Okafor the main men off the bench with anyone left of Johnson/Mills/Pend/Cunningham having to fill in the gaps.

Next offseason try and do something like Carl Landry for the full MLE, and I think Paul would almost be a lock to stick around.

OMFG. I hadnt thought about that regarding West. Great insight gives me wood frankly. Repped.

 

[Idog1976]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

I would do this and give them all expiring contracts and tell GO we will max him out next summer in a *Wink wink deal

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=38vzcxa

POR OUT
Oden, Przybilla and Miller (No Batum), add in cash and draft picks

POR IN
Paul and Okafor

Everyone including Oden can be an expiring contract if that is what they want. And if they want to re-up Oden, they can


PG Paul, Bayless, Mills or Johnson
SG Roy, Matthews, Fernandez, Williams
SF Batum, Cunningham, Babbitt
PF LMA, Pendergraph
C Okafor, Camby

still leaves you with Rudy to deal

We would have no cap room. Great thought, but can't do it per the CBA.

 

[Idog1976]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Let's say for the sake of conversation that Oden is dealt for CP3.

Judging by the signings they've made this summer I'd look at NJ as a trading partner -- LMA/prospects for Lopez/Filler

NJN will trade Lopez around the same time that Orlando trades Dwight Howard i.e. 2021 or there abouts.

 

[Masbee]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

I would do this and give them all expiring contracts and tell GO we will max him out next summer in a *Wink wink deal

You can't possibly be a "Trader" as a Trader would know there is no way to "max" out a player with no cap space, and besides, "wink, wink" deals for big money are extremely risky.

 

[Idog1976]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

I agree. And as well, I don't think Camby wants to go to NO, nor does NO want Camby and his large salary for two more seasons.

I like your idea of trying to take back Posey's salary as well, but I just don't see how we can do it without including Oden or Camby, and including Oden is paying too much for us if we are sending Batum and ALSO eating tons of bad contracts, and Camby has 2 more years, which doesn't help NO dump Posey's two years and Songolia's expiring deal.

But JPEC and Miller make up for Posey and Camby is two years shorter then Okafor and a better player by far that Monty is familiar with. I don't agree with your assumptions. This trade that I've been saying since the Deng rumors is the move. JPEC pays right away with insurance for however long he doesn't play. Miller expires next year and Camby the year after. You can throw in rooks in S& T or just the draft rights, euros, cash, picks or even Pendy and Dante.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=25ns7wh

I don't agree with your assumption about Camby and I sure as fuck don't care what he or any other player thinks about their new environs this is the NBA.

 

[Idog1976]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Ok totally new angle.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=22uswyj

Why Portland does it CP3 and I'm done with that.

Why New Orleans does it MEGA cap relief from Michael Redd who might even be useful if he recovers next year. They get Aldridge to replace West who will likely leave in awhile. They also get immediate cap relief from JPEC and just absolute shit tons of cap relief from Miller, Redd and Joel all expiring next year.

Why Milwaukie does it. They get good value out of red in a very solid PF to pair with Bogut creating one of the best front courts in the east to go along with Brandon Jennings.


Or to sweeten the deal for Milwaukie you throw in young talent in Dante and Rudy in this variant. Of course you could sweeten the pot with picks and cash as both teams have cash strapped owners:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2497the

NOH is looking at 30+ MILLION in cap relief next summer getting rid of Okafor and Posey. Shoring up the PF spot which West would likely abandon next summer and getting young talent in Bayless. A further variant has Milwaukie sending Delfino incase the crunch at SF is too unbearable for NOH you could also send them Dante instead of MIL.

Portland:

PG: Paul/Johnson/Mills
SG: Roy/Matthews/Williams
SF: Batum (yay!)/Matthews/Babbit
PF: Okafor/Camby/Pendy
C: Oden/Okafor/Camby

I think I like that better then sending out Batum. Thoughts? And please more in depth then yuck over Okafor and Oden would that REALLY be a deal breaker over getting CP3? The defense, rebounding and length on that team is insane as is the scoring.

 

[Masbee]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

I personally would rather that the centerpiece be Aldridge instead of Batum or Oden, I just like both of their games better. I know some are concerned because Paul said he would like to play with Roy and LMA, but if we win I don't think it's an issue.

If NOH trades Paul and goes into rebuild mode what are the chances West sticks around? He's got a player option next year that's actually under his value, so he's probably likely to opt out no matter the fate of Paul, and if the Hornets are in full on youth/rebuild mode they can't think his chances of sticking around are all that high. We've all though that Aldridge becomes redundant in any Hornets trade because of West but the more I think about it, the more I think the Hornets would like Aldridge so they could then in turn trade West for even more assets in their rebuild before they lose him for nothing next summer.

Something I think is realistic, but has to wait until after Aug 7th because of the signing restrictions:

Aldridge, Bayless, Rudy, Babbitt, E. Williams, Miller, and Pryz + picks and cash
for
Paul, Okafor, and Posey

It barely works because of Aldridge's BYC status, but it does, and Cunningham could be included as well I believe for a small bit of added value. Like I said if that happens I think NOH immediately starts looking for a trade destination for West because without Paul he's unlikely to stay a Hornet for more than 1 season.

NOH has a Collison/Thornton/Aldridge young core with alot of young guys to test out and they save alot of money over the next 3 years.

I still am unsure that NO wants to pay Aldridge's contract. It is the same money they are trying to dump in Okafor's deal.

However, if for some reason they think Aldridge is worth that money and value what he can do more than Okafor, then you bring up an intersting point about West. I didn't know he has a player option.

Right now, the Hornets likely aren't spending a lot of time worrying about West. They figure, they have to fight one fire at a time. Once they make a decision to trade Paul, then they might start thinking about the rebuild in earnest.

As you point out, West gets restless if Paul leaves. Doesn't mean he would go for sure, but now he becomes a big flight risk with the player option - depending on the lockout.

If the Hornets expand the trade and grab Aldridge, they could turn around and try to trade West to a team with cap space (Nets, Thunder) and take back less in salary. This would reduce their salary level even further. West for Favors cuts the salary in half. Of course, they could make a trade like this even if they don't bring in Aldridge. They have to want him for the big contract he has.

 

[Jayps15]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Ok totally new angle.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=22uswyj

Why Portland does it CP3 and I'm done with that.

Why New Orleans does it MEGA cap relief from Michael Redd who might even be useful if he recovers next year. They get Aldridge to replace West who will likely leave in awhile. They also get immediate cap relief from JPEC and just absolute shit tons of cap relief from Miller, Redd and Joel all expiring next year.

Why Milwaukie does it. They get good value out of red in a very solid PF to pair with Bogut creating one of the best front courts in the east to go along with Brandon Jennings.


Or to sweeten the deal for Milwaukie you throw in young talent in Dante and Rudy in this variant. Of course you could sweeten the pot with picks and cash as both teams have cash strapped owners:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2497the

NOH is looking at 30+ MILLION in cap relief next summer getting rid of Okafor and Posey. Shoring up the PF spot which West would likely abandon next summer and getting young talent in Bayless. A further variant has Milwaukie sending Delfino incase the crunch at SF is too unbearable for NOH you could also send them Dante instead of MIL.

Portland:

PG: Paul/Johnson/Mills
SG: Roy/Matthews/Williams
SF: Batum (yay!)/Matthews/Babbit
PF: Okafor/Camby/Pendy
C: Oden/Okafor/Camby

I think I like that better then sending out Batum. Thoughts? And please more in depth then yuck over Okafor and Oden would that REALLY be a deal breaker over getting CP3?

Outside of the obvious difficulty of 3-team trades etc. I see one immediate problem, both of those trades add approx 6 million to NOH payroll this year. That puts them over the luxury tax and could end up costing them something like 10mil in extra payroll and another 3-4mil in a lost tax share, remember any team under the tax gets a share of all the luxury tax dollars teams over the cap have to pay. Take the 1st trade and include Songaila and J. Wright to the Bucks and you make it better though, it keeps them from going over the tax, and both players are expiring so it's not to big of a pill to swallow for the Bucks (although you couldn't throw in Dante and Rudy to sweeten it like in your 2nd trade).

 

[Idog1976]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Outside of the obvious difficulty of 3-team trades etc. I see one immediate problem, both of those trades add approx 6 million to NOH payroll this year. That puts them over the luxury tax and could end up costing them something like 10mil in extra payroll and another 3-4mil in a lost tax share, remember any team under the tax gets a share of all the luxury tax dollars teams over the cap have to pay. Take the 1st trade and include Songaila and J. Wright to the Bucks and you make it better though, it keeps them from going over the tax, and both players are expiring so it's not to big of a pill to swallow for the Bucks (although you couldn't throw in Dante and Rudy to sweeten it like in your 2nd trade).

Done:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2focqkf

Again Hornets are getting 3 million in cash from PA as are the Bucks. The Bucks owners are in worse shape then Shinn IIRC. That might be the biggest hesitation. Although giving up Red for nothing when they can take back a much smaller salary for a much better player and they might be interested.

Also at this point every possible permutation of a two team trade has been chewed like a cud.

 

[B-Roy]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

I can't see the Hornets taking on Aldridge's contract. I just can't.

When you're rebuilding, you rebuild with cheap young pieces. Aldridge is young, but he is NOT cheap. That's why Batum is so intriguing for them.

 

[Idog1976]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

I can't see the Hornets taking on Aldridge's contract. I just can't.

When you're rebuilding, you rebuild with cheap young pieces. Aldridge is young, but he is NOT cheap. That's why Batum is so intriguing for them.

If you're right then one of the other trades in this thread happens or CP3 stays in NOH.

 

[Jayps15]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

I still am unsure that NO wants to pay Aldridge's contract. It is the same money they are trying to dump in Okafor's deal.

However, if for some reason they think Aldridge is worth that money and value what he can do more than Okafor, then you bring up an intersting point about West. I didn't know he has a player option.

Right now, the Hornets likely aren't spending a lot of time worrying about West. They figure, they have to fight one fire at a time. Once they make a decision to trade Paul, then they might start thinking about the rebuild in earnest.

As you point out, West gets restless if Paul leaves. Doesn't mean he would go for sure, but now he becomes a big flight risk with the player option - depending on the lockout.

If the Hornets expand the trade and grab Aldridge, they could turn around and try to trade West to a team with cap space (Nets, Thunder) and take back less in salary. This would reduce their salary level even further. West for Favors cuts the salary in half. Of course, they could make a trade like this even if they don't bring in Aldridge. They have to want him for the big contract he has.

With the spending this offseason Aldridge's contract looks like a steal, and it's not so much them paying him Okafor's money, but instead paying him what they would have to pay West long term after next season to keep him around. Basically the longterm salaries of Paul, Posey, Okafor, and West(after he's traded) out for LMA and whomever of the young guys they decide to try and keep in. Considering West is going to be 30 this season while Aldridge will be 25 I think that's good value.

Plus I think they could value Aldridge over Batum or Oden, he's been pretty healthy after his rookie year and has a more "proven" track record than Oden, and he's more "proven" than Batum while also playing a position of somewhat more perceived value (bigs being more valueable than smalls).

 

[B-Roy]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

With the spending this offseason Aldridge's contract looks like a steal, and it's not so much them paying him Okafor's money, but instead paying him what they would have to pay West long term after next season to keep him around.

But that's the thing, if they're rebuilding, they wouldn't even pay West long term, they'd let him walk or trade him away for picks/talent.

Basically the longterm salaries of Paul, Posey, Okafor, and West(after he's traded) out for LMA and whomever of the young guys they decide to try and keep in. Considering West is going to be 30 this season while Aldridge will be 25 I think that's good value.

What would New Orleans rather have? A cheap core of Collison, Thornton, Batum, and picks, or an expensive core of Collison, Thornton, and Aldridge? I think it's pretty obvious that Batum holds a lot more value in any Paul trade.

Plus I think they could value Aldridge over Batum or Oden, he's been pretty healthy after his rookie year and has a more "proven" track record than Oden, and he's more "proven" than Batum while also playing a position of somewhat more perceived value (bigs being more valueable than smalls).

Well that's something nobody knows. I would guess (And this is just me guessing) that Monty would have an affinity to Batum.

 

[Idog1976]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

With the spending this offseason Aldridge's contract looks like a steal, and it's not so much them paying him Okafor's money, but instead paying him what they would have to pay West long term after next season to keep him around. Basically the longterm salaries of Paul, Posey, Okafor, and West(after he's traded) out for LMA and whomever of the young guys they decide to try and keep in. Considering West is going to be 30 this season while Aldridge will be 25 I think that's good value.

Plus I think they could value Aldridge over Batum or Oden, he's been pretty healthy after his rookie year and has a more "proven" track record than Oden, and he's more "proven" than Batum while also playing a position of somewhat more perceived value (bigs being more valueable than smalls).

All good points.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=295zadp

In this trade Courtney Lee and K. Humphries are salary filler to simulate Derrick Favors as ESPN trade machine is a piece of shit that doesn't let you bypass restrictions.

NOH would have Aldridge play center alongside Favors. 11 mill for a center with Aldridge's talent is an uber steal and Favors gives you the bone crunching force down low.

 

[B-Roy]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

All good points.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=295zadp

In this trade Courtney Lee and K. Humphries are salary filler to simulate Derrick Favors as ESPN trade machine is a piece of shit that doesn't let you bypass restrictions.

NOH would have Aldridge play center alongside Favors.

Would you trade Favors for West if you were NJ? Just ask yourself that...

 

[Idog1976]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

But that's the thing, if they're rebuilding, they wouldn't even pay West long term, they'd let him walk or trade him away for picks/talent.


What would New Orleans rather have? A cheap core of Collison, Thornton, Batum, and picks, or an expensive core of Collison, Thornton, and Aldridge? I think it's pretty obvious that Batum holds a lot more value in any Paul trade.


Well that's something nobody knows. I would guess (And this is just me guessing) that Monty would have an affinity to Batum.

Not much point in you reading proposals past page 2 or so if you believe that. Batum will be the center piece and we get Paul with another trade mentioned in this thread.

 

[Idog1976]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Would you trade Favors for West if you were NJ? Just ask yourself that...

Turn him into a TPE then.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

All good points.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=295zadp

Holy crap, man, are you crazy? No way New Orleans wants Kris Humphries!

More seriously, I don't think New Jersey would be at all tempted to trade Favors for West. West is going to be 30, Favors 19. Favors is cheap, has a higher ceiling and is a much better fit for a team nowhere near contention at the moment.

 

[B-Roy]

Re: TIme to work the Trade Machine!

Turn him into a TPE then.

Who? West?

Favors is the 3rd overall pick. Why is NJ trading Favors for a freaking TPE?