Merry Christmas and Peace on Earth!

[Denny Crane]

I understood you just fine. Agree too.

Did you serve in the military?

Case closed.

 

[Sedatedfork]

Did you serve in the military?

Case closed.

I didn't know @MarAzul spoke for all veterans.

 

[Denny Crane]

I didn't know @MarAzul spoke for all veterans.

Nor does riverman. Clearly.

From the many vets I know, they talk more like MarAzul than riverman. They all "believe in the mission," many served multiple tours in Iraq and/or Afghanistan.

 

[Sedatedfork]

Nor does riverman. Clearly.

From the many vets I know, they talk more like MarAzul than riverman. They all "believe in the mission," many served multiple tours in Iraq and/or Afghanistan.

So case reopened? Do they all believe in the mission or are there different views? Can't be both.

 

[Denny Crane]

So case reopened? Do they all believe in the mission or are there different views? Can't be both.

He's the one that suggested my views wouldn't be popular in a room full of veterans.

The evidence is to the contrary.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

He's the one that suggested my views wouldn't be popular in a room full of veterans.

The evidence is to the contrary.

Not to those veterans who have the benefit of time, age and perspective. Give those younger fire eaters a chance to grow older and wiser and to get some distance from their experiences. Guys like MarAzul are an aberration in terms of their views.....or at least that's my experience. I've talked to far too many WWII, Korea and Vietnam vets who said that if they had the chance to do it over based on what they know now, they wouldn't do it, plain and simple. Seems like those who have never served have the most enthusiasm for belligerence......

 

[Denny Crane]

Not to those veterans who have the benefit of time, age and perspective. Give those younger fire eaters a chance to grow older and wiser and to get some distance from their experiences. Guys like MarAzul are an aberration in terms of their views.....or at least that's my experience. I've talked to far too many WWII, Korea and Vietnam vets who said that if they had the chance to do it over based on what they know now, they wouldn't do it, plain and simple. Seems like those who have never served have the most enthusiasm for belligerence......

My neighbor is a 20 year veteran, served in Iraq 3 times, Afghanistan 4 times.

It seems like if Obama does it, certain vets can see no wrong. If Bush did the same thing, even better, those same vets can see no right.

And that's the problem.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

Bush the Younger picked a fight we didn't need and couldn't win. Even his dad was smart enough to figure that out. Dubya squandered American lives and treasure for absolutely nothing and then left his successor (regardless of who it might have been) a huge steaming pile of shit. Those vets should be pissed at Bush for setting them up for failure. Instead, lets blame the guy who tried to de-escalate (as general American sentiment desired at that time). You are a master of revisionist history Denny.

 

[MarAzul]

WWII, Korea and Vietnam vets who said that if they had the chance to do it over based on what they know now, they wouldn't do it

Come on Cliffy, you know that is an answer to an entirely different question. There are close to none that want to redo any war! That is hardly the question here. I could tell the story again about
how the guys at the VA Hospital in Roseburg feel about Obama, but I will spare you the pain.

 

[MarAzul]

Bush the Younger picked a fight we didn't need

and couldn't win

Ah! Now your getting close to Trumps position (and mine). We should not have started the Iraq War. But we did. We took out the strong man that made the place work.

And we won too. Even Bidden agreed we won. Then Obama made the another error, squandered the win, making the efforts of the troops useless.

The first bad, must be accepted and move on. The second bad now must be accepted and move on, but the second bad is not absolved because of the first bad.
Now we need to fix the friggin problem and I am not at all sure Iraq, Syria are viable countries since they have several populations that do not integrate there or here in the US.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/12/int...family-no-warmth-just-a-tiny-fist-and-a-tree/

 

[MarAzul]

An optimist may see a light where there is none,
but why must a pessimist always run to blow it out?

 

[Denny Crane]

Bush the Younger picked a fight we didn't need and couldn't win. Even his dad was smart enough to figure that out. Dubya squandered American lives and treasure for absolutely nothing and then left his successor (regardless of who it might have been) a huge steaming pile of shit. Those vets should be pissed at Bush for setting them up for failure. Instead, lets blame the guy who tried to de-escalate (as general American sentiment desired at that time). You are a master of revisionist history Denny.

Actually, we did win. It was won until Obama surrendered on our behalf.

By no measure was it a loss, except for the number of people unhappy we won.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

Actually, we did win. It was won until Obama surrendered on our behalf.

By no measure was it a loss, except for the number of people unhappy we won.

Like I said, you're the master of revisionist history. How do you call it a win when the country could not "succeed" (and hasn't) without our actual presence?? Once we more or less left the country (because the majority of Americans wanted us out) it all fell back to shit. The senior Bush (and anyone with even half a brain) saw that coming. The war in Iraq was (and still is) unwinnable by any definition of the word. How do you define a "win" in this instance Denny? Maybe your pathological dislike of Obama coupled with your fascination for labeling dissenters "losers" blinds you to to the actual reality......

 

[Denny Crane]

Like I said, you're the master of revisionist history. How do you call it a win when the country could not "succeed" (and hasn't) without our actual presence?? Once we more or less left the country (because the majority of Americans wanted us out) it all fell back to shit. The senior Bush (and anyone with even half a brain) saw that coming. The war in Iraq was (and still is) unwinnable by any definition of the word. How do you define a "win" in this instance Denny? Maybe your pathological dislike of Obama coupled with your fascination for labeling dissenters "losers" blinds you to to the actual reality......

Well, we won, you're the one doing the revision. Plain as day.

There are two wins in Iraq.

We achieved regime change and arrested Saddam. Mission Accomplished, remember?

I define a win as virtually no violence in the country, no ISIS, Al Qaeda crushed - that was the case when Obama took office. Only slightly more violence there than in the state of California at the time. Roughly 4,000 civilian deaths the two years before Obama surrendered.



http://www.msnbc.com/all/california-did-tough-gun-control-laws-cut

Gun violence across California dropped 56% from 5,500 gun deaths in 1993 to 2,935 in 2010, according to the study, which took into account California’s expanded population from about 30 to 37 million people over the same period.