Politics Mexicans cutting through trumps border wall

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
bodyman5000 and 1 said:
There are plenty of males who are bitches.

Where's you's libbies thread about Max Blumenthal?

It wasn't on CNN so you don't know? Typical.
Click to expand...
The only time I've ever heard of a man and the word bitch is son-of-a-bitch. Bitch always refer to a denigration of a woman or of women in general.
 
Lanny said:
The only time I've ever heard of a man and the word bitch is son-of-a-bitch. Bitch always refer to a denigration of a woman or of women in general.
Click to expand...
Or when insulting a man by comparing him to a woman.
 
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

New Collossus - Emma Lazarus
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

New Collossus - Emma Lazarus
Click to expand...
My mother made me memorize that when I was young.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

New Collossus - Emma Lazarus
Click to expand...

One, if by land...two, if by sea.
 
Chris Craig said:
All along many of us having been saying what a waste of fucking money it is. We said people would climb over it with ladders and dig under it. Now they are also cutting through it, just to show it can be done. Stop building the useless wall
Click to expand...

I'm not singling you out, Chris, just picked your comment as representative of the no-wall position. I'm pretty much middle of the road when it comes to border issues, but I always wonder what those who don't want a wall propose as an alternative. Are you no-wall folks truly for completely open borders and willing to deal with the impact that would impose on our already straining system of social services for folks without employment? I get that many would find employment, but a lot wouldn't, or if they did, would be taking jobs that might go to unemployed folks who are already here. Are you advocating for some other form of border security? No doubt that the immigration system is broken and needs to be changed to allow more legal immigration, but there are always likely to be more people from poor nations wanting to come here than a legal system that can pass muster in a divided political system will allow for. Sometimes it seems to me that this issue is so wrapped up with hatred of Trump and other right wing politicians that nobody is making any sense at all.
 
e_blazer said:
Are you no-wall folks truly for completely open borders and willing to deal with the impact that would impose on our already straining system of social services for folks without employment?
Click to expand...

A wall and completely open borders are definitely not the only alternatives.

Are you advocating for some other form of border security? No doubt that the immigration system is broken and needs to be changed to allow more legal immigration, but there are always likely to be more people from poor nations wanting to come here than a legal system that can pass muster in a divided political system will allow for.
Click to expand...

We currently have neither a wall (except in spots) nor open borders. That's been true for decades. Border crossings are actually much lower now than they were in the past. Why is it that we need a radical solution now?

barfo
 
barfo said:
A wall and completely open borders are definitely not the only alternatives.



We currently have neither a wall (except in spots) nor open borders. That's been true for decades. Border crossings are actually much lower now than they were in the past. Why is it that we need a radical solution now?

barfo
Click to expand...

I'm not saying that we do. I've never thought that a wall along the entire border makes much sense, and I think that most analyses of the situation agree with that. There are certainly places where a wall is a necessary element, but any solution is going to require many other pieces in order to work. It just seems to me that it's about time for some intelligent discussion on the issue. Of course, intelligent discussion isn't really an option given the current occupant of the White House, together with the overheated leadership of the House and Senate.
 
e_blazer said:
I'm not singling you out, Chris, just picked your comment as representative of the no-wall position. I'm pretty much middle of the road when it comes to border issues, but I always wonder what those who don't want a wall propose as an alternative. Are you no-wall folks truly for completely open borders and willing to deal with the impact that would impose on our already straining system of social services for folks without employment? I get that many would find employment, but a lot wouldn't, or if they did, would be taking jobs that might go to unemployed folks who are already here. Are you advocating for some other form of border security? No doubt that the immigration system is broken and needs to be changed to allow more legal immigration, but there are always likely to be more people from poor nations wanting to come here than a legal system that can pass muster in a divided political system will allow for. Sometimes it seems to me that this issue is so wrapped up with hatred of Trump and other right wing politicians that nobody is making any sense at all.
Click to expand...

We don't know how big or if illegal immigration is a problem. We need to stop the biggest incentives for coming here. We need to increase the punishments for hiring illegals first. Right now it's similar to punishing the drug users but not the drug dealers. The dealers being employers. So many industries in this country rely on illegal immigrant labor. End that first.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
We don't know how big or if illegal immigration is a problem. We need to stop the biggest incentives for coming here. We need to increase the punishments for hiring illegals first. Right now it's similar to punishing the drug users but not the drug dealers. The dealers being employers. So many industries in this country rely on illegal immigrant labor. End that first.
Click to expand...

I think we know that illegal immigration is a problem, I mean there are around 11 million folks living here without the benefit of legal status. That's a problem for many reasons, the primary one being who in the heck wants to live their life with the threat of potentially being deported? I agree with your arguments about hitting employers of undocumented workers. I've never understood why the E-Verify thing was controversial as a basic requirement.

Here are a couple of links to recent Pew information on illegal immigration trends:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/06/28/what-we-know-about-illegal-immigration-from-mexico/

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/06/12/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/
 
Most manufacturing based countries bordering poorer countries build the damned factories on the border instead of the wall and can hire labor without granting citizenship...factory becomes "the wall" for all intensive purposes. China had the New Territories bordering Hong Kong when the British were there....all factories. I'm all for work permits for folks willing to work without requiring massive migrations of populations to get to a manufacturing or agricultural base. There are diplomatic ways to deal with it...you put a shopping center next to a factory on the border and I promise the work permitted Mexicans would shop there.....good for the GNP all around.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Who doesn't want a workforce that you can exploit and that is afraid to complain.
Click to expand...
If owners want to hire someone and the rules say you are their guarantor while they are here they'll vet the labor force more thoroughly...my first boss was my guarantor until I got my work permit working overseas. That system works if you don't have sweat shop goons skirting the laws.
 
riverman said:
Most manufacturing based countries bordering poorer countries build the damned factories on the border instead of the wall and can hire labor without granting citizenship...factory becomes "the wall" for all intensive purposes. China had the New Territories bordering Hong Kong when the British were there....all factories. I'm all for work permits for folks willing to work without requiring massive migrations of populations to get to a manufacturing or agricultural base. There are diplomatic ways to deal with it...you put a shopping center next to a factory on the border and I promise the work permitted Mexicans would shop there.....good for the GNP all around.
Click to expand...

Would be a good solution except that we aren't a manufacturing based country any more... service, construction, ag work can't be located along the border.

barfo
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Who doesn't want a workforce that you can exploit and that is afraid to complain.
Click to expand...
The way I've normally felt is that the republicans like Immigration for an exploitable workforce, the Democrats like immigration because they feel like they get voters out of it. (At least at the high levels).

My answer would be technology... We have robots, and camera’s and ai, drones... it'd be a heck of a lot cheaper to use technology to keep tabs on people passing the border's and alert Border control units than to build a giant wall. You won't ever remove immigration completely though. Using technology for security seems much more efficient.
 
e_blazer said:
I'm not singling you out, Chris, just picked your comment as representative of the no-wall position. I'm pretty much middle of the road when it comes to border issues, but I always wonder what those who don't want a wall propose as an alternative. Are you no-wall folks truly for completely open borders and willing to deal with the impact that would impose on our already straining system of social services for folks without employment? I get that many would find employment, but a lot wouldn't, or if they did, would be taking jobs that might go to unemployed folks who are already here. Are you advocating for some other form of border security? No doubt that the immigration system is broken and needs to be changed to allow more legal immigration, but there are always likely to be more people from poor nations wanting to come here than a legal system that can pass muster in a divided political system will allow for. Sometimes it seems to me that this issue is so wrapped up with hatred of Trump and other right wing politicians that nobody is making any sense at all.
Click to expand...

No prob @eblazer

The wall a $24+billion venture is not really a feasible solution to the immigration issue. It is the world's most expensive band aid and it's covering a broken system. Sure, it offers a momentary patch, but it's bleeding through already. People are cutting through, climbing over. If they want across they will find away. Its inevitable.

Am I saying by any means we should just have open borders and allow anyone to walk through? No. If we removed every illegal immigrant social services would still be strained. Poverty is not a result or effect of illegal immigrants. Its is due to a system that leverages the poor against the rich. But, that is another topic.

The immigration system needs to be fixed. We need to help uplift our neighbors so their people don't feel like they need to come here. Make their countries better for them. The current political message is America first, fuck everyone else. But, really a better world makes America better.

We need to work with Mexico to have better facilities on the border to house refugees while they wait for their cases to be heard. If they have shelter and food they won't be so desperate to climb walls and cross rivers.

We need to appoint more judges so the cases can be heard faster. We need better programs to monitor immigrants to help them to succeed rather than to wait till they fuck up so we can deport them.

They are part of America if they are here. If they do good, America does good. As for stealing jobs. Immigrants take the lowest jobs, the ones no one wants.

As for security at the border, more security at legal ports of entry. That is where most of the drugs come in, nit out in the middle of the desert. Dispatch a number of servicemen to the border have them shift in and out. Use drones to patrol large areas. Drones are cheaper and more effective than a wall.
 
e_blazer said:
I think we know that illegal immigration is a problem, I mean there are around 11 million folks living here without the benefit of legal status. That's a problem for many reasons, the primary one being who in the heck wants to live their life with the threat of potentially being deported? I agree with your arguments about hitting employers of undocumented workers. I've never understood why the E-Verify thing was controversial as a basic requirement.

Here are a couple of links to recent Pew information on illegal immigration trends:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/06/28/what-we-know-about-illegal-immigration-from-mexico/

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/06/12/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/
Click to expand...
The threat of being deported is tiny compared with the threat of death by gangs.
Also, I think those who came here through no fault of theirs such as the DACA kids need a path to citizenship. Many of them know no other language than English nor any other customs.
 
barfo said:
Would be a good solution except that we aren't a manufacturing based country any more... service, construction, ag work can't be located along the border.

barfo
Click to expand...
putting mother boards in cardboard boxes is still needed though! If manufacturing is so dead, why did the auto industry and guitar industry move to Mexico?
 
riverman said:
putting mother boards in cardboard boxes is still needed though!
Click to expand...

is that part of the woman - insult - bitch - man - insult discussion? I can't keep track

I'm still working thru the image of Lanny taking a bitch on his chin
 
wizenheimer said:
is that part of the woman - insult - bitch - man - insult discussion? I can't keep track

I'm still working thru the image of Lanny taking a bitch on his chin
Click to expand...
Huh?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top