Meyers Extended

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GDiama said:
With Meyers you don't need PER or advanced stats etc. They eye test is enough.
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Only if you know what you're looking for. In some cases, the eye test is actually backed up by the stats.

From day one, everyone commented on Meyers' shooting touch. In his 3rd season, he had a rare 50/40/90 season (.510/.420/.938).

In his second season, I observed that his rebounding looked much improved - it was, as backed up by his respectable 16.8 TRB%

In his third season, I noted that his position defense had improved and he had learned to go straight up making him much less foul prone (PF/36 decreased from 7.7 to 4.8).

He has shown improvement in multiple areas, yet the hate some poster have for him is palpable because he is not what THEY want him to be.

Meyers biggest problem is, that so far, he seems to be able to only focus on doing one thing well at a time. I made a post during the playoffs that I thought Meyers was too coachable - that he focuses too much on the most recent thing his coaches told him to do, and forgets to do everything else he is capable of:

Boob-No-More said:
I made a post a month or two ago where I thought Meyers' biggest problem is he's TOO coachable - meaning he focuses totally on the last thing the coaches told him, to the exclusion of other things he's capable of doing.

After the MEM series, he was labeled a stretch-4 who can spread the floor with his 3-point shooting. So, at the beginning of last season ALL he did was camp out at the 3-point line and hoist shots. Against SAC, someone told him he needed to bang with Boogie and get in his head, and that's exactly what he did. If you go back to last April, in the make up game against BRK, when Aldridge and Kaman didn't make the trip, someone must have told Meyers he needs to step up, score in the paint and rebound to make up for their absence.

He's capable of doing all of these things. He has a great shooting touch from anywhere on the court, he actually has some excellent low post foot work - on the rare occasions he actually tries to post up, he can be a dominant rebounder, especially on the defensive end, when he focuses on it and he can also be a very strong low post defender against the likes of Marc Gasol, Deandre Jordan and Boogie Cousins.

He can do all of these things well, but the problem is he hasn't been able to put them all together. He needs to stop thinking of himself in a specific role and just start thinking of himself as a basketball player who can do multiple things to help his team. He needs to learn to recognize mismatches and exploit them - if he's being guarded by a big center like Gasol or Jordan, draw them out of the paint with his 3-point shooting. If he has a smaller PF on him, like Thaddeus Young, get your ass down on the low block and punish him with your size. Same thing on the pick and roll. If they trap Dame or C.J. or switch and you end up with a guard on you, dive to the basket and exploit that mismatch.

Meyers is still pretty young and a few years away from entering his prime. As others have noted, he has improved specific individual skills and the way he spaces the floor does benefit the team by creating openings for his teammates. He just needs to put it all together and stop over-thinking his role. I don't want to overpay him, but I also don't want to lose him for nothing. Neil and the coaches know him way better than anyone here. They know what he works on in practice and the off season. They know his strengths and weaknesses. He's no longer a total unknown. I'm sure they'll take that all into consideration, along with any offer sheet he may be offered and make the best decision for the team.

BNM
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I think he'll eventually outgrow that tendency and stop overthinking things. He has a unique skill set and can be a valuable part of our rotation. It would be nice if more people around here appreciated that and actually started to root for the guy to succeed, especially since we just signed him for another 4 years. Obviously, our front office and coached feel he's worth keeping around.

BNM
 
Mediocre Man said:
So is it a good stat? You seem analytical
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PER is flawed but not useless, when taken in context. TS% is a very meaningful stat. But, in both cases the sample size is small (5 games). His .631 TS% for the entire 2014-15 season is a much more representative sample size.

Also, most around here talk like he had a horrible 2015-16 season. He started out in a horrendous shooting slump, but his 3-point shooting improved every month of the year (until his injury ended his season in March). From Christmas - March 14 (the date of his injury) he shot .457 from 3-point range - that's elite by any measure and the 37 game sample size is significant. Only one player in the entire league, J.J. Redick, shot better than that from 3-point range for the season.

That's a valuable skill for anyone in today's NBA, but in a big man, even just a role player, that creates the kind of spacing that allows others to penetrate and score in the paint. Dame and C.J. especially benefit from Meyers spreading the floor. I don't think it's just a coincidence that the team played their best ball of the season (24-13) during that stretch. When Meyers was hitting the 3, we were an elite team (24-13 = .649). The rest of the year, not so much (20-25 = .444). Do you think that is merely a coincidence? I don't. He's not perfect, but the team plays better when Meyers poses a legitimate 3-point threat.

BNM
 
Nikolokolus said:
C'mon. Small sample sizes should always be rejected (even if he had played like shit).
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OK, then see my other posts. .510/.420/.938 for the entire 2014-15 season, Is that a large enough sample size to be significant.

What about .457 3FG% from 12/26/2105 to 3/14/2016 - a 37 game sample size when the team went 24-13? Not significant?

BNM
 
A guy who is over 7' can stretch the floor like Meyers does, is respectable at rebounding and give big low post guys fits with how he defends them... If you described that player to any fan of any team they would say "Yes please!"

Blazers fans "boo he's not Theo Ratliff"
 
1) I think there is too much emphasis placed on "what a player is worth." That is only one factor in determining what a player earns. I like this contract a lot, because I think it is very tradeable. Players have been getting paid BEFORE they earned it on the court since at least the middle 80s, and probably earlier than that.

2) I think the midseason trade deadline is going to be interesting as the Blazers really need a consolidation trade, ML is a tradeable contract, and Boogie should have gone completely insane by then.

3) I'll be incommunicado for a month or so, but no worries, I'm pretty sure that nothing new is going to happen until training camp (outside of signing Harkless).
 
Wizard Mentor said:
1)Players have been getting paid BEFORE they earned it on the court since at least the middle 80s, and probably earlier than that.
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Especially, relatively young 7-footers - Jon "the Contract" Koncak (career PER = 9.8) says, "How YOU doin', Meyers Leonard?"

BNM
 
Like BNM, I have seen Leonard's progress each season.

A ~12 PER is not bad for the 4th or 5th option, and is rather good for a reserve. It's lower than we'd like because he is both playing and learning a new position and especially defending PFs.

It won't take a big leap forward in his progress to more than justify his contract.

Though it never really came up, I was 100% sure Leonard was going to be signed to a long term deal. He's an investment that's already paid off some and looks to deliver greater returns this season.
 
Leonard is a unicorn. He is an athletic 7 footer that can shoot lights out and is actually a pretty decent passer as well. Add respectable one-on-one post defense and it is hard not to sign him.

Just take a look at how long it took EJ to become a good center (and Neil drafted him too). Most bigs take time - and it would have been crazy not to try and ride the early years with someone as unique as Meyers.
 
andalusian said:
Leonard is a unicorn. He is an athletic 7 footer that can shoot lights out and is actually a pretty decent passer as well. Add respectable one-on-one post defense and it is hard not to sign him.

Just take a look at how long it took EJ to become a good center (and Neil drafted him too). Most bigs take time - and it would have been crazy not to try and ride the early years with someone as unique as Meyers.
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EJ? Ernie Johnson?
 
ML can spread the floor but he not same player that draft out of college. The kid I seen in college did have a low post offense and block shot. But that not the same player when he got here on this team. He has to play center especially defense. Lambeer stretch the floor when play for Detroit but he still was there center. We can have Dame CJ ET Aminu and ML on the floor at the same time. Stotts scheme is getting back on defense he sends one guy to the offense board. Talking about spreading the floor there you go.
 
Boob-No-More said:
Did he make the shot? That's all that matters and he makes 3-pointers at a much higher than league average percentage.

BNM
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He actually did. Then missed his defense assignment at the other end, and Dame was forced to reach and pick up his third personal foul. He had to leave the game and we were outscored going into the half by 8
 
Mediocre Man said:
He actually did. Then missed his defense assignment at the other end, and Dame was forced to reach and pick up his third personal foul. He had to leave the game and we were outscored going into the half by 8
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Well, the team must have been having an off night, because all the advanced stats show that, in general, we outscore our opponents when Meyers is on the court. His +3.6 points/48 was the highest on the team.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
Well, the team must have been having an off night, because all the advanced stats show that, in general, we outscore our opponents when Meyers is on the court. His +3.6 points/48 was the highest on the team.

BNM
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Could be because Stotts took him out of the rotation and only played him against other garbage players
 
Oscar was 8th on our team in real plus minus stat. 10th this year if you were to include Ezeli and Turner. Dude is amazing and was a great lottery pick
 
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