Meyers Leonard Stat - WS as a Rookie C

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3RA1N1AC said:
hes 20 years old...

i guess the question should be, what do you want? the blazers to just waive him?
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A center that actually shows signs of life when it comes to rebounding and defense

I don't want a center that is practicing his freaking 3pt shot
 
Boob-No-More said:
You do realize he was a 20-21 year old rookie and his average opponent was older and more experienced, right? Because, if you do, you would not find that stat in the least bit surprising or disconcerting.

Andre Drummond who was picked ahead of Leonard, came in 4th in ROY voting and who EVERYONE seems to thinks is an absolute beast, scored 18.4 points per 48 minutes and gave up 20.9 - and difference of -2.5 points per 48.

So, I'm glad you are so optimistic about Meyer's future, because if he scores 10 points and gives up 12, as you predict, he's a better center prospect than Andre Drummond. I find that very encouraging. Thanks for pointing this out and sharing your optimism with the board. You really are a ray of sunshine.

BNM
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Andre Drummond or Meyers Leonard

Who would you pick for your team for the next 10 years?
 
Here is what makes the Lynyrd detractors so cranky: he can suck again next season and it won't matter. 3 or 4 years from now he can be out of the league....and people will still be claiming he is going to break out any day now and become an All Star. Optimism is one thing - but when you piss on somebody's shoes and tell them it is just a pleasant summer shower, you are going to get a negative reaction.

Past history has made us poor realists feel rather put upon! :cheers:
 
Btw when you look at actual production on 82games.com for Detroit's whole roster

Drummond

OWN - 23.5
OPP - 19.5
Net - +4.1

With his ON/OFF court he's a net +2.9

He had the highest simple rating for the players that got regular minutes for the Pistons

When you look at the same stats for Leonard all you can do is shake your head at how bad they are in comparison.
 
ahh, so you are annoyed about a hypothetical future
 
Fair enough that some centers progress and some don't. Lets look at why. One reason is that they simply get buried deep on a bench because the team is trying to win now, and they never get the time to improve. I don't think that will be the case for ML, at least not this coming year. Another reason is bad attitude. Thinking they deserve this or that and the coaches should listen to them. They get in the doghouse and don't open themselves up to learning. I havent heard anything but very positive things about ML's attitude. Another reason is they are dumb or unable to learn plays, or rotations. Outlaw had a hard time with this, it kept him from every really succeeding. This could be ML, I really don't have a grasp on his intelligence. I have not heard that he can't learn a play or figure out when to rotate, but I suppose that's possible. Not physically gifted enough to do what needs to happen at the center spot. Some skinny players get abused, some slow footed players get left behind. I see absolutely zero evidence that ML is anything but a top athlete. Injuries. ML has been healthy so far.

Basically, there are reasons why people fail, and I really don't see any of those reasons prohibiting ML from improving year over year. Especially when you consider how new he is to being a BIG in general. It seems to me that ML will more than likely be a good player at some point. This year might be early, but hopefully he at least shows some improvement. But to be so negative about ML without giving reasons why you think he is going to be one of the losers, seems like you are just trolling.
 
RoyToy said:
A center that actually shows signs of life when it comes to rebounding and defense

I don't want a center that is practicing his freaking 3pt shot
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so, what do you want? to waive him and sign dalembert or something? not following
 
RoyToy said:
Andre Drummond or Meyers Leonard

Who would you pick for your team for the next 10 years?
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The question is irrelevant. Exchanging Leonard for Drummond isn't going to happen and Drummond was off the board when Leonard was drafted. If I get to pick anyone and they have to play for me, I'll take LeBron James, thanks. But, that's not going to happen either. So, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

So, we can either cry about something we don't and can't have, or we can hope for the best from what we do have.

Pointing out that the rookie Drummond was also outscored by his opponents just proves that rookie big men rarely reach their full potential in just one season. Is Drummond's potential ceiling greater than Leonard's. Most likely (that's why he was drafted higher), but that doesn't mean Leonard has zero chance to become a decent NBA player.

And BTW, I know you're also not thrilled with the Lopez deal, but Lopez outscored his opponents 20.9 points per 48 to 19.7. You should be absolutely thrilled that staring center went from a position of weakness to one of strength. We now have an above average starting center and a promising young backup!

BNM
 
RoyToy said:
Btw when you look at actual production on 82games.com for Detroit's whole roster

Drummond

OWN - 23.5
OPP - 19.5
Net - +4.1

With his ON/OFF court he's a net +2.9

He had the highest simple rating for the players that got regular minutes for the Pistons

When you look at the same stats for Leonard all you can do is shake your head at how bad they are in comparison.
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Those are TEAM stats, not individual stats.

All that really tells us is Detroit's bench wasn't much worse than their not very good starters and that the Blazers bench historically sucked compared to our starters, which were far above average and capable of holding their own against any other starting five in the entire league. You are penalizing Meyers Leonard because he was the best player on the worst bench in the history of the league.

BNM
 
Pretty encouraging stat. Nice find. Comparing him to Drummond--the absolute steal of the draft who should have gone in the top 3 and will almost certainly be a superstar now that he seems to have answered concerns about his motor--is not particularly useful.
 
Boob-No-More said:
The question is irrelevant. Exchanging Leonard for Drummond isn't going to happen and Drummond was off the board when Leonard was drafted. If I get to pick anyone and they have to play for me, I'll take LeBron James, thanks. But, that's not going to happen either. So, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

So, we can either cry about something we don't and can't have, or we can hope for the best from what we do have.

Pointing out that the rookie Drummond was also outscored by his opponents just proves that rookie big men rarely reach their full potential in just one season. Is Drummond's potential ceiling greater than Leonard's. Most likely (that's why he was drafted higher), but that doesn't mean Leonard has zero chance to become a decent NBA player.

And BTW, I know you're also not thrilled with the Lopez deal, but Lopez outscored his opponents 20.9 points per 48 to 19.7. You should be absolutely thrilled that staring center went from a position of weakness to one of strength. We now have an above average starting center and a promising young backup!

BNM
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It's obviously Drummond, isn't it?
 
TowelBoy said:
Pretty encouraging stat. Nice find. Comparing him to Drummond--the absolute steal of the draft who should have gone in the top 3 and will almost certainly be a superstar now that he seems to have answered concerns about his motor--is not particularly useful.
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Leonard doesn't have even 1/10th the defensive potential Drummond does.

Drummond is going to be an all-star center pretty easily in a few years. Write it down.
 
blazerboy30 said:
What does Drummond's performance have to do with a forward-looking decision about Leonard?
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Exactly! But hey, let's continue to cry about what we don't have and fantasize about what we can never get. Yeah, that's productive...

BNM
 
You heard it here first. Drummond is pretty good. Write it down.
 
The real question for next year has nothing to do with Drummond.

The real question has to do with the reaction of opposing centers. When ML checks in do they just yawn or do they lick their lips?

We don't need superstardom, we just need the opponents to stop licking their lips when ML checks in.
 
Boob-No-More said:
Exactly! But hey, let's continue to cry about what we don't have and fantasize about what we can never get. Yeah, that's productive...

BNM
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Maybe you shouldn't have brought Drummond up then.

But you did.
 
serious question: going forward, if you weren't to think of Leonard as a Center, but as a 7'1 PF who played like a homeless man's Dirk (or a 2013 version of Steve Novak or Ryan Anderson), would it change your idea of him? I mean, I get it--he's not going to be Shaq. Or Drummond. Or Tyson Chandler. But I wouldn't trust any of those players with the ball 12 feet from the hoop.

I get that this team still needs a rebounder/paint-defender, etc...but you don't find a ton of 7'1 guys who work hard, have a good motor, are athletic and have a tangible NBA skill (shooting, in this case).
 
BrianFromWA said:
serious question: going forward, if you weren't to think of Leonard as a Center, but as a 7'1 PF who played like a homeless man's Dirk (or a 2013 version of Steve Novak or Ryan Anderson), would it change your idea of him? I mean, I get it--he's not going to be Shaq. Or Drummond. Or Tyson Chandler. But I wouldn't trust any of those players with the ball 12 feet from the hoop.

I get that this team still needs a rebounder/paint-defender, etc...but you don't find a ton of 7'1 guys who work hard, have a good motor, are athletic and have a tangible NBA skill (shooting, in this case).
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This is the main point.

Leonard is either an asset or he isn't. If he isn't an asset, then we should waive him. If he is an asset, then we should get the most out of him that we can, whether it is by playing to his strengths or trading him for something that fits our needs.

Instead, some posters would prefer to whine that an asset we already have is completely useless because it isn't as valuable as an asset somebody else has.
 
They aren't even complaining because they care, they are just laughing at us for reacting.
 
blazerboy30 said:
He compared a stat to completely dismiss your stats for Leonard. Your "case" for why Leonard sucks was destroyed.
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So are you saying that those stats do a poor job or showing that Meyers Leonard was bad last year?
 
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RoyToy said:
Maybe you shouldn't have brought Drummond up then.

But you did.
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Yep, and I did to show that even a highly regarded total stud center gave up more points than he scored as a rookie. That's the danger of using a single stat to try to bash (or praise) a player (especially a rookie big man). You used that exact same stat to bash Myers Leonard. So, Leonard is a total bust, but Drummond is a can't miss all-star? Is there no middle ground? Even if Meyers isn't as good as Drummond in the long run, he can still be a very good player and worthy of his draft position. We didn't have the option of picking Drummond over Leonard (we could have picked Drummond over Lillard, but that's a different thread). So, crying about want we don't have and bashing what we do just doesn't seem all that productive (or enjoyable) to me.

But then bashing our current players seems to be your thing, so have at it. Be sure to trash Meyers in every thread. I think you may have missed one or two. Oh, and don't forget to tell us for the millionth time that Aldridge is leaving and the sky is falling. Someone may have missed that the first 999,999 times. And, it's not like it ever gets old.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
Yep, and I did to show that even a highly regarded total stud center gave up more points than he scored as a rookie. That's the danger of using a single stat to try to bash (or praise) a player (especially a rookie big man). You used that exact same stat to bash Myers Leonard. So, Leonard is a total bust, but Drummond is a can't miss all-star? Is there no middle ground? Even if Meyers isn't as good as Drummond in the long run, he can still be a very good player and worthy of his draft position. We didn't have the option of picking Drummond over Leonard (we could have picked Drummond over Lillard, but that's a different thread). So, crying about want we don't have and bashing what we do just doesn't seem all that productive (or enjoyable) to me.

But then bashing our current players seems to be your thing, so have at it. Be sure to trash Meyers in every thread. I think you may have missed one or two. Oh, and don't forget to tell us for the millionth time that Aldridge is leaving and the sky is falling. Someone may have missed that the first 999,999 times. And, it's not like it ever gets old.

BNM
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You think that's the only stat I've used to say I don't like Meyeres Leonard as a basketball player?

I'm pretty sure I've referenced his poor rebounding numbers numerous times.

I don't like centers that don't play defense and don't rebound. I don't get why this position is so controversial around here.

Drummond DOES rebound. Drummond has shown flashes of elite defensive potential. Drummond does play tough in the paint.
 
GOD said:
They aren't even complaining because they care, they are just laughing at us for reacting.
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I agree. There are 4 or 5 solid nega-Blazers here who just look for reactions from other posters these days.
 
RoyToy said:
You think that's the only stat I've used to say I don't like Meyeres Leonard as a basketball player?

I'm pretty sure I've referenced his poor rebounding numbers numerous times.

I don't like centers that don't play defense and don't rebound. I don't get why this position is so controversial around here.

Drummond DOES rebound. Drummond has shown flashes of elite defensive potential. Drummond does play tough in the paint.
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WTF does Drummond have to do with Leonard???

Drummond was a 38% FT shooter last year, fwiw.

Weren't you just whining about how Leonard can't score without being "fed" the ball? If offense doesn't matter, why did you even bring that up?
 
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