Mike Barrett's take on the officiating

[crandc]

Actually, there is merit in both sides.

Yes, the officiating has been slanted against the Blazers. Yes, Oden & Przybilla have been called for touch fouls while Yao does not get called for body slamming or hooking. Yes, there is a star system in the NBA.

But...

Last year, the Rockets, with Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady, lost in the first round to Utah. Utah, with Deron Williams, Carlos Boozer, Andrei Kirilenko. Who had the bigger stars?

Remember the 2004 Finals? It was said if the Pistons did everything right they might win one game against the Lakers with Shaquille O'Neal, Kobe Bryant, Karl Malone, and Gary Payton. Instead, the Lakers won one game against the star-challenged Pistons.

Is it an accident that Roy took nearly all the Blazers free throws yesterday? Or has it something to do with him being a two time all star, and getting national attention as an elite player? Clyde did not get calls against Michael Jordan, but he got plenty against lesser beings. The first year Pippen was with the Blazers, he was matched up against Wally Szczerbiak in the first round of the playoffs. A rookie. Who got the calls?

Oden does not get the calls because he's seen as a disappointment. Whether or not we agree is irrelevant. If Oden works this summer and next year starts showing why he was such a high rated #1 pick, he's going to start getting calls.

So yes, the officiating is stacked against Portland. But they committed at least 3 bonehead mistakes in crunch time in a one point loss yesterday and that was not due to the refs.

So yes, Nate should speak up. But the Blazers also need to start earning star treatment. Roy has at least to a degree. Time for Oden and Aldridge to do the same.

And for god's sake, don't throw the rebound halfway to San Antonio, or steal the ball but get your pocket picked, or get trapped on the endline, or take an off balance 3 with 9 seconds still left. Get a rep for dumb plays and you'll never get star calls!

 

[Wizard Mentor]

How am I bullshitting? Rice and Barrett whine all the time about the officiating, I'm sick of hearing it from them, that's a simple statement of my opinion.

As for the refs adding or subtracting points through fouls and no-calls that may be true, but the Blazers are still getting out-worked and out executed in this series, which is the real reason they are down 3-1, not because of some perceived slight or fix job by the refs.

simple enough for you?

If the Blazers are getting outworked and out executed and the refs bias is causing us to lose a net 8 points a game, then we
are actually ahead 3-1. So, my question to you is... What are we doing RIGHT, assuming we are getting outworked and
out executed, but up in the ref-neutral series 3-1?

 

[Nikolokolus]

If the Blazers are getting outworked and out executed and the refs bias is causing us to lose a net 8 points a game, then we
are actually ahead 3-1. So, my question to you is... What are we doing RIGHT, assuming we are getting outworked and
out executed, but up in the ref-neutral series 3-1?

Aggressive teams get the calls, they haven't been aggressive so they aren't getting the calls. That's the only bias I've seen in this series.

All things being equal, 2 times out 3 the jumpshooting team has to be that much better than a physical inside oriented team in order to win a playoff game. If the Blazers want to stop feeling jobbed by the refs then they should work harder for loose balls, drive to the hole more and put the pressure on the officials to make the call, if they don't get the call the first time do it again and again and again and again ... but that's not what this team does.

The only ref-neutral series you are going to see is when both teams take it to each other relentlessly, Houston knows this, the Blazers haven't quite caught on.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Aggressive teams get the calls, they haven't been aggressive so they aren't getting the calls. That's the only bias I've seen in this series.

Completely Wrong. I'm not talking about the Wafer drives to the hoop. Yes, he's being aggressive and getting calls. Ditto for Lowry (btw, Memphis held onto Lowry too long and didn't get enough for him ) I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about Yao pushing our bigs, and our bigs getting called for fouls REPEATEDLY. Yao is not getting fouls called on our big because "he's aggressive". The fouls are being called for no apparent reason. As M&M pointed out in the last game, it was all by the same ref (things that make you go hmmm.) Again, what I'm talking about has nothing to do with aggressiveness.

Actually, this is a HUGE compliment to the blazers. Houston is being much more aggressive than we are (outside of Roy), outrebounding us by a lot, and getting huge lifts from the refs, yet they only won the last two games by a small number of points combined.

All things being equal, 2 times out 3 the jumpshooting team has to be that much better than a physical inside oriented team in order to win a playoff game. If the Blazers want to stop feeling jobbed by the refs then they should work harder for loose balls, drive to the hole more and put the pressure on the officials to make the call, if they don't get the call the first time do it again and again and again and again ... but that's not what this team does.

Roy has been hammered - he's gotten calls some of the time. Yes, other members of our team needs to be more aggressive taking it to the hoop. This has been my gripe about Outlaw all year.

The only ref-neutral series you are going to see is when both teams take it to each other relentlessly, Houston knows this, the Blazers haven't quite caught on.

This has some truth to it, but it's hard for a small town Portland fan to be paranoid of a billion sized fan base.

 

[STOMP]

Aggressive teams get the calls, they haven't been aggressive so they aren't getting the calls. That's the only bias I've seen in this series.

All things being equal, 2 times out 3 the jumpshooting team has to be that much better than a physical inside oriented team in order to win a playoff game. If the Blazers want to stop feeling jobbed by the refs then they should work harder for loose balls, drive to the hole more and put the pressure on the officials to make the call, if they don't get the call the first time do it again and again and again and again ... but that's not what this team does.

The only ref-neutral series you are going to see is when both teams take it to each other relentlessly, Houston knows this, the Blazers haven't quite caught on.

being wrong, do you enjoy?[/yoda]

it's ticky tack on one side, no blood no foul on the other

STOMP

 

[STOMP]

Veterans and superstars get the calls. Rookies and obscure role players don't.

I've got to hit you up one more time here.... sorry

Joel was the #9 lotto choice in 2000. He's a sometime starter and has been a solid defender/role player for years. Battier was the #6 lotto choice in 2001. He's a sometime starter and has been a solid defender/role player for years. They both signed MLE contracts yet Joel is obscure? Are you really contending that Shane is the bigger star and thus deserves more leeway with the calls anything approaching what we've witnessed?

Then we have the Gregarious #1 pick two drafts back who has been featured on numerous national ad campaigns vs the league pariah who punches out fans, and racks up flagrant T's/suspensions... Portland doesn't win that one in the star system either because Ron Ron is a vet who has garnered the respect of the league?

I'm sticking with my contention that market size matters a great deal... in Portland he'd receive all the vet respect that Ruben did.

STOMP

 

[STOMP]

Last year, the Rockets, with Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady, lost in the first round to Utah. Utah, with Deron Williams, Carlos Boozer, Andrei Kirilenko. Who had the bigger stars?

Utah did... Ming had a broken foot and never stepped on the court during that series.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=280502026

STOMP

 

[alex42083]

Going off MB's stat of us getting the short end of the calls in this series, 101-83, I decided to figure out the discrepancy of fouls compared to the rest of the playoff series.
To make it fair, I just went through the first four games of each series.

+/- fouls (Through four games)
Detroit -32 (Big number, but understandably against LeBron)
Portland -18
San Antonio -11
LA Lakers -6
Miami -4
Boston -3
New Orleans -1
Philadelphia 0
Orlando 0
Denver +1
Chicago +3
Atlanta +4
Utah +6
Dallas +11
Houston +18
Cleveland +32


Total fouls (Through four games)
Portland 101
LA Lakers 101
New Orleans 101
Denver 100
Detroit 95
Utah 95
Boston 93
Chicago 90
Orlando 89
Philadelphia 89
San Antonio 86
Miami 85
Houston 83
Atlanta 81
Dallas 75
Cleveland 63

 

[e_blazer]

While I do agree that the officiating has been one-sided overall, I think at least some discussion should be given to the difference in the way the Blazers and Rockets foul. The Blazers (Oden in particular) often get calls against them because they reach and use their hands. The officials don't often let those fouls go. It seems to me that the Rockets seem to be more adept at using their lower bodies to push people out of position and that the refs seem to ignore those fouls more often, especially when they occur in the paint.

 

[blue32]

Going off MB's stat of us getting the short end of the calls in this series, 101-83, I decided to figure out the discrepancy of fouls compared to the rest of the playoff series.
To make it fair, I just went through the first four games of each series.

+/- fouls (Through four games)
Detroit -32 (Big number, but understandably against LeBron)
Portland -18
San Antonio -11
LA Lakers -6
Miami -4
Boston -3
New Orleans -1
Philadelphia 0
Orlando 0
Denver +1
Chicago +3
Atlanta +4
Utah +6
Dallas +11
Houston +18
Cleveland +32


Total fouls (Through four games)
Portland 101
LA Lakers 101
New Orleans 101
Denver 100
Detroit 95
Utah 95
Boston 93
Chicago 90
Orlando 89
Philadelphia 89
San Antonio 86
Miami 85
Houston 83
Atlanta 81
Dallas 75
Cleveland 63

Good to see LeBron's constant baby face whining to the ref's is paying off .

 

[Nikolokolus]

being wrong, do you enjoy?[/yoda]

it's ticky tack on one side, no blood no foul on the other

STOMP

I agree some of the fouls on Yao have been a little 'odd' (especially the jostling for post position calls), but on the flipside the Blazers (aside from Brandon) consistently settle for jumpers and fade-away shots, so there is bound to be fewer calls and fewer fouls shots for our guys.

The only thing I think that you could take issue with is Brandon getting knocked around the way he has; he should probably have at least 10 more trips to the line throughout these 4 games.

Whatever the case, I'm just sick of talking about the officiating when its clear that the Blazers haven't been able to get over the hump due to a lack of execution and poise -- they haven't looked like the better team in this series.

 

[mook]

I've got to hit you up one more time here.... sorry

Joel was the #9 lotto choice in 2000. He's a sometime starter and has been a solid defender/role player for years. Battier was the #6 lotto choice in 2001. He's a sometime starter and has been a solid defender/role player for years. They both signed MLE contracts yet Joel is obscure? Are you really contending that Shane is the bigger star and thus deserves more leeway with the calls anything approaching what we've witnessed?

Joel has never been a candidate for DPOY or even all-defense. Joel has averaged 20 mpg over his career to Battier's 33 mpg. Joel has played in 487 games (7 playoff games), to Battier's 618 (including 29 playoff games). Battier had a major New York Times piece written about him, while Joel gets one or two fluff pieces per year in the Oregonian.

When you ask the average NBA fan about Battier, they'll likely respond, "Defensive stud."

When you ask the average NBA fan about Przybilla, they'll likely respond, "Who?"

I like Joel, and on a per-minute basis he has a bigger defensive impact than Battier. But it's pretty easy to see why the refs rank Battier as a much more important player. I think such a rank is bullshit and should be irrelevant to reffing a game, but I can see how they came to ref both guys the way they did (even if I don't agree with the principles--or lack thereof--behind it).

And it really doesn't have to have anything to do with media markets.

 

[durvasa]

He needs to check his facts.

Portland is not a physical team, and outside of Greg Oden, we almost never see the Blazers in foul trouble. Houston is one of the more physical teams in the NBA, and are known for possessing a suffocating defense that survives on hard fouls, rough play on the perimeter, and absolutely pound you down low. Yet, in this series, the Blazers have been called for 101 fouls. The Rockets have been called for 83. That's a huge disparity. Houston has attempted 96 free throws, and the Blazers 79.

The Rockets committed fewer fouls than every team except the Spurs in the regular season. For him to say the Rockets defense is based on committing hard fouls is just nonsense. He's confusing them with the Utah Jazz. The reason the Rockets are not getting called for a lot of fouls in this series is because the know how to play good defense without fouling. Portland is not a good defensive team, they have to contend with a team that is focusing more on paint scores instead of jump shots, and as a result they're getting called for more fouls.

 

[maxiep]

This thread blows my mind. We don't say when watching football, "Well, clearly Tomlinson grabbed his facemask when he gave him a stiff arm, but LT is an All Pro." Or when watching baseball, "sure that ball was down the middle of the plate, but you don't call a third strike looking on A-Rod."

A foul is a foul. I don't give a shit who commits it. I don't give a shit about reputation. And grabbing, holding and bumping is a foul just like the ones Joel and Greg have been committing on Yao. It's time for Artest, Battier and Scola to be called for doing it.

 

[e_blazer]

Whatever the case, I'm just sick of talking about the officiating when its clear that the Blazers haven't been able to get over the hump due to a lack of execution and poise -- they haven't looked like the better team in this series.

When the Rockets have won by a grand total of 4 points in the last two games, which were played on their home court, I don't think you can state that they were clearly the better team. It also seems to me that in such close games when there is a consistent trend for one team to get more trips to the line than the other, and for one team to be restricted from its game plan by having its players in foul trouble early, then talking about officiating discrepancies is as relevant, or more so, than any other topic.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

This thread blows my mind. We don't say when watching football, "Well, clearly Tomlinson grabbed his facemask when he gave him a stiff arm, but LT is an All Pro." Or when watching baseball, "sure that ball was down the middle of the plate, but you don't call a third strike looking on A-Rod."

A foul is a foul. I don't give a shit who commits it. I don't give a shit about reputation. And grabbing, holding and bumping is a foul just like the ones Joel and Greg have been committing on Yao. It's time for Artest, Battier and Scola to be called for doing it.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to maxiep again.

 

[Paxil]

Maxiep... you are correct... but the NBA does most definitely have an unwritten star policy... and the refs are quite aware of it... even though everyone and their daughter may claim it doesn't exist... I have heard someone who went to a ref training camp that they need to be aware of whom the fans pay to see... and that it isn't in the best interest of the league to have those players hurt or on the bench with fouls. We all see blatent evidence of this... and Yao is definitaly a superstar. Also note that market size determines some about who is crowned a superstar. So while you are right... it can't be a surprise to anyone that there are different rules for stars. Complain though we may... it won't change.

The NBA decided to market individual's over teams... which helped create this mess. There is no going back. That doesn't mean we can't win... just that we have to play even better to do it.

 

[LittleAlex]

This thread blows my mind. We don't say when watching football, "Well, clearly Tomlinson grabbed his facemask when he gave him a stiff arm, but LT is an All Pro." Or when watching baseball, "sure that ball was down the middle of the plate, but you don't call a third strike looking on A-Rod."

A foul is a foul. I don't give a shit who commits it. I don't give a shit about reputation. And grabbing, holding and bumping is a foul just like the ones Joel and Greg have been committing on Yao. It's time for Artest, Battier and Scola to be called for doing it.

QFT

 

[crandc]

Maxiep's point is correct up to a point. A close call will go to the star. If the pitch is right down the middle it's a strike (unless the ump really is blind), but a pitch right on the edge? A star pitcher or a star batter gets the call. Was it an incomplete pass or pass interference? A close call will go to the star.

In a way I don't mind that. The games move fast and a borderline call goes to the person who has earned it by consistent excellence for years.

What I DO mind is that a lot of these calls have not been borderline. It's not like Yao and Oden are right on the border where it's a charge on one side or a block on the other. Or that Yao is just bumping Roy. The refereeing has been blatant.

 

[Uther TheGardener]

yup like the foul on blake when he was sandwiched between lowry who jumped on top of him and artest.....and they called a foul on blake are you fing kidding me?

 

[durvasa]

You guys want to compare which team got called for more fouls. But like I said, the Rockets for the season committed fewer fouls than anyone not named the Spurs in the regular season. People complain that Yao has gotten the benefit of all these foul calls, while Brandon Roy has not. But just look at what both players have done in this series. Roy is supposedly getting hammered all game, but he's averaging 28.3 ppg and 8.5 free throw attempts a game for the series. That's well above his regular season rates. Yao, on the other hand, is averaging a mere 15.8 ppg and 5.5 free throw attempts a game, well below his season averages. You think your team has been able to shut him down for 2 of the 4 games by playing perfectly legit defense? Seriously?

To me, the story of the series so far has nothing to do with the officiating. It's that the Rockets role players have stepped up with the Blazers focusing all the defensive attention on Yao (which includes being extra-physical with him, admitted explicitly by Pryzbilla before game 4), while many key role players for the Blazers have not.

 

[durvasa]

Maxiep's point is correct up to a point. A close call will go to the star. If the pitch is right down the middle it's a strike (unless the ump really is blind), but a pitch right on the edge? A star pitcher or a star batter gets the call. Was it an incomplete pass or pass interference? A close call will go to the star.

Brandon Roy is a bigger star than Artest or Battier. LaMarcus Aldridge is a bigger star than Luis Scola or Carl Landry. Our role players have played harder and smarter. That's the series so far.

 

[HailBlazers]

Speaking of Officiating, Did anyone see the way Steve Javie treated the Jazz at the end of the game last night? Talk about calling it one way. That's the scariest thing about playing in LA id say.

 

[Sinobas]

How am I bullshitting? Rice and Barrett whine all the time about the officiating, I'm sick of hearing it from them, that's a simple statement of my opinion.

As for the refs adding or subtracting points through fouls and no-calls that may be true, but the Blazers are still getting out-worked and out executed in this series, which is the real reason they are down 3-1, not because of some perceived slight or fix job by the refs.

simple enough for you?

Even out the officiating, then let what the players do on the court decide the outcome of the game.

Like I said, if the Blazers won by 3 and the refs decided to take 4 points away at the end of the game, it doesn't matter how many stupid plays the Blazers made during the game, the refs stole the game away.

 

[GoBlazersGo]

Brandon Roy is a bigger star than Artest or Battier. LaMarcus Aldridge is a bigger star than Luis Scola or Carl Landry. Our role players have played harder and smarter. That's the series so far.

Roy had more fouls in ONE GAME (6 in Game 3) than Artest has been whistled for ALL SERIES (4). The fact that Roy has as many fouls in this series as Artest and Battier COMBINED (13) is completely laughable... at absolute best.

Artest is getting called for a foul about every 36 minutes of playing time (35.75, to be exact).

 

[durvasa]

Roy had more fouls in ONE GAME (6 in Game 3) than Artest has been whistled for ALL SERIES (4). The fact that Roy has as many fouls in this series as Artest and Battier COMBINED (13) is completely laughable... at absolute best.

Artest is getting called for a foul about every 36 minutes of playing time (35.75, to be exact).

And yet anyone who doesn't have his head stuck in a gutter realizes that Brandon Roy and LaMarcus Aldridge are stars in this league -- much more so than the players the Rockets have matched up against them. So there goes the "we don't get respect because they have more stars than us" tripe.

The Rockets have more role players that have been making plays at or around the basket (Scola, Landry, Lowry, Wafer). The Blazers role players have been shooting jumpers (Outlaw, Fernandez, Blake) or have been mostly non-participants on offense (Pryzbilla, Oden).

 

[GoBlazersGo]

And yet anyone who doesn't have his head stuck in a gutter realizes that Brandon Roy and LaMarcus Aldridge are stars in this league -- much more so than the players the Rockets have matched up against them. So there goes the "we don't get respect because they have more stars than us" tripe.

The Rockets have more role players that have been making plays at or around the basket (Scola, Landry, Lowry, Wafer). The Blazers role players have been shooting jumpers (Outlaw, Fernandez, Blake) or have been mostly non-participants on offense (Pryzbilla, Oden).

[video=youtube;wKjxFJfcrcA]

 

[BlazerCaravan]

It brings up a more thorny issue though: why is our star being manhandled without the guys manhandling him being called for fouls? Maybe he's only considered a star in the regular season, and not in the playoffs yet. Maybe the refs are calling the reputations: Houston has one; Portland doesn't.

 

[crandc]

Brandon Roy is a bigger star than Artest or Battier. LaMarcus Aldridge is a bigger star than Luis Scola or Carl Landry. Our role players have played harder and smarter. That's the series so far.

Sentence 1, agree, that is why Roy gets calls vs. Artest and Battier, but not against Yao. Sentence 2, disagree. Aldridge is a 3rd year player who is good but not an all star and without national rep.

The series so far? well, with a little help from your friends in stripes.

 

[GoBlazersGo]

Sentence 1, agree, that is why Roy gets calls vs. Artest and Battier, but not against Yao. Sentence 2, disagree. Aldridge is a 3rd year player who is good but not an all star and without national rep.

The series so far? well, with a little help from your friends in stripes.

Roy get calls vs. Artest and Battier? Roy has 13 fouls through four games... while Artest and Battier also have 13 fouls between them, total. Roy had more fouls called against him in Game 3, alone, than Artest has been whistled for all series.