Politics Military is coming to Portland, Trump authorizes “full force” if needed (2 Viewers)

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I've never been a Trump fan, though I've felt it important to stand up for what's right - even for him.

As far as these uses of the National Guard, they're likely proper though ill advised and not something I want to see. The National Guard can and should be called out by the Feds if the local government is failing to uphold the laws. One example is when Ike sent the National Guard into Little Rock to force the governor out of the way so 9 African American students could go to the public school for the first time. Another example is when JFK sent in the National Guard to Alabama (twice) to move governor George Wallace out of the doorway where he was blocking African American students from attending the university.

An example where the Feds failed to act is during the aftermath of Katrina. GW Bush didn't mobilize the National Guard because the governor and mayor refused it. In hindsight, the Guard could have really helped people.

So if a governor like Pritzker refuses to obey the duly passed immigration laws, Trump sees it as the Feds' obligation to call in the Guard. Trump will win at any honest court and in the Supreme Court in the end. Those responsible for upholding the laws may promulgate or choose which laws to put into effect - like chief of police choosing not to arrest people for jaywalking. Feds trump everyone else.

It's fair to protest, go for it. I'm with anyone who does.

As far as using the military other than the Guard, it's clearly unconstitutional and violates the Posse Comitatus Act. It's dubious that refusing to promulgate rules or laws is insurrection.
 
Denny Crane said:
I've never been a Trump fan, though I've felt it important to stand up for what's right - even for him.

As far as these uses of the National Guard, they're likely proper though ill advised and not something I want to see. The National Guard can and should be called out by the Feds if the local government is failing to uphold the laws. One example is when Ike sent the National Guard into Little Rock to force the governor out of the way so 9 African American students could go to the public school for the first time. Another example is when JFK sent in the National Guard to Alabama (twice) to move governor George Wallace out of the doorway where he was blocking African American students from attending the university.

An example where the Feds failed to act is during the aftermath of Katrina. GW Bush didn't mobilize the National Guard because the governor and mayor refused it. In hindsight, the Guard could have really helped people.

So if a governor like Pritzker refuses to obey the duly passed immigration laws, Trump sees it as the Feds' obligation to call in the Guard. Trump will win at any honest court and in the Supreme Court in the end. Those responsible for upholding the laws may promulgate or choose which laws to put into effect - like chief of police choosing not to arrest people for jaywalking. Feds trump everyone else.

It's fair to protest, go for it. I'm with anyone who does.

As far as using the military other than the Guard, it's clearly unconstitutional and violates the Posse Comitatus Act. It's dubious that refusing to promulgate rules or laws is insurrection.
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The national guard is to answer to the state where they reside, not the president. Only times president can is during war or insurrection. Neither are happening in Portland. I know this for a fact.

Everything else is false.
 
I have never ever in my life interacted with someone who has as much ignorance and arrogance simultaneously packaged into a ball of bullshit.

As an increasingly old person I get more and more concerned about the complete backwards mentality of some of our youth and how they may very well destroy us before my time is up.

Facts. Everything else is a lie. I know. You don't.
Closing my ears now and screaming because i know I'm right and you are wrong. Anything else is false.
Waaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Children. Yes, adult children are running rampant without any ability to debate civilly. Screaming they know everything but refuse to listen to anything.

Crazy is here.
 
Order permitting redeployment of federal troops in Portland paused when court learned shockingly Trump administration lied in court filing.

Article in Daily Kos illustrated story with pic of Bill Walton. Author said they didn't want to post pic of Trump or Bondi.
 
Denny Crane said:

This is the judges’ writing, not anything from the administration- beyond what they already argued in court.
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It's a decision that deserved to be overturned. Their theory that events in the past justify an emergency response in the present is pretty silly.
Maybe we should bomb Germany today, because of Hitler?

barfo
 
barfo said:
It's a decision that deserved to be overturned. Their theory that events in the past justify an emergency response in the present is pretty silly.
Maybe we should bomb Germany today, because of Hitler?

barfo
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Neither of us are judges, eh?

The document also cites the law that allows Trump to use the national guard.

This is the most liberal appeals court in the country who made this 90 page ruling.
 
I should be clear that if it were up to me the border would be open for people to come and go. We’re supposed to be a free country.

If we did have open borders, ICE would be restricted to dealing with violent criminals - not deporting people.
 
Denny Crane said:
Neither of us are judges, eh?
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I'm definitely not. You might be, for all I know :)
Denny Crane said:
The document also cites the law that allows Trump to use the national guard.

This is the most liberal appeals court in the country who made this 90 page ruling.
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It was a panel of 3 judges, two of which were Trump appointees. You are correct that the 9th circuit is the most liberal, but not this small subset of the 9th.

barfo
 
barfo said:
I'm definitely not. You might be, for all I know :)

It was a panel of 3 judges, two of which were Trump appointees. You are correct that the 9th circuit is the most liberal, but not this small subset of the 9th.

barfo
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The en banc hearing is 11 judges, and they’re looking at a technicality to overturn the 3 judge panel. The technicality is the govt. stated they used 96 ICE agents for security purposes when it was 65 - some were double counted.

The facts in the ruling might be of interest to anyone who says “it’s mostly peaceful protests.” Page after page of violent events against the ICE facilities.
 
Denny Crane said:
The en banc hearing is 11 judges, and they’re looking at a technicality to overturn the 3 judge panel. The technicality is the govt. stated they used 96 ICE agents for security purposes when it was 65 - some were double counted.

The facts in the ruling might be of interest to anyone who says “it’s mostly peaceful protests.” Page after page of violent events against the ICE facilities.
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Sure. There have occasionally been violent events. Of course, there is also some evidence that the feds have instigated and/or provoked that violence.

But it's just one building. It's not an insurrection.

There was a murder at Burning Man this year. That's way more violent than anything at the ICE building. Maybe the national guard should be sent there instead?

barfo
 
barfo said:
Sure. There have occasionally been violent events. Of course, there is also some evidence that the feds have instigated and/or provoked that violence.

But it's just one building. It's not an insurrection.

There was a murder at Burning Man this year. That's way more violent than anything at the ICE building. Maybe the national guard should be sent there instead?

barfo
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You have nutjobs who set fire to teslas and damage police vehicles and buildings. That ICE is there is awful, but still those guys deserve to be protected from violent attacks present or future.

The law is clear that the Feds can absolutely call in the Guard if the local police and govt. aren’t enforcing the laws. It can’t be any simpler than that. So a governor thumping his chest in defiance of Trump is only making the “not enforcing the laws” more explicit.

Also, for someone who’s acting like a king, Trump is obeying the courts.
 
Immigration without papers is civil, not criminal. Big difference.
Court ordered release of Kilmar Abrego Garcia. Court ordered national Guard out. Court ordered Trump to pay restitution after being found liable for sexual assault. Court ordered Trump to pay restitution after being found liable for fraud. Courts convicted January 6 insurrectionists if serious crimes and Trump pardoned them. Tell us more about Trump following the court orders.
 
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

(Criminal law, specifies imprisonment)
 
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