Politics Military is coming to Portland, Trump authorizes “full force” if needed (5 Viewers)

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Denny Crane said:
But the police aren’t doing their job. That court ruling details a number of instances of that.

The Guard would be there to defend the ICE HQ building. ~200 total - 3 x 8 hour shifts, or about 70 on duty at any one time.
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Why do you think 70 soldiers are needed to defend a single building? Especially given that ICE and CBP and probably other varieties of feds are already onsite and are completely happy to beat up citizens themselves.

barfo
 
barfo said:
But the police aren’t doing their job. That court ruling details a number of instances of that.

The Guard would be there to defend the ICE HQ building. ~200 total - 3 x 8 hour shifts, or about 70 on duty at any one time.
Click to expand...
Why do you think 70 soldiers are needed to defend a single building? Especially given that ICE and CBP and probably other varieties of feds are already onsite and are completely happy to beat up citizens themselves.

barfo
[/QUOTE]

That’s the number they determined it takes. As it is, when the protests have been unruly, they have to call in off duty personnel and assign others to defend the building and ICE guys.

I’m sure they’re only taking physical actions when there’s a real threat.
 
70 soldiers needed to defend a building against singing frogs and guy in chicken suit.

So if immigration without papers is a criminal act, where are the trials? In the United States we are supposed to have trial by jury, not people being disappeared.
 
barfo said:
Why do you think 70 soldiers are needed to defend a single building? Especially given that ICE and CBP and probably other varieties of feds are already onsite and are completely happy to beat up citizens themselves.

barfo
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Denny Crane said:
That’s the number they determined it takes. As it is, when the protests have been unruly, they have to call in off duty personnel and assign others to defend the building and ICE guys.

I’m sure they’re only taking physical actions when there’s a real threat.
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How are you sure of that?

Is it your position that everything the government says is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

barfo
 
Interesting.


“The Department of Homeland Security cannot contain this threat itself,” Hamilton told Immergut, saying the president only federalized the Oregon National Guard after Gov. Tina Kotek refused to do so.

Hamilton said the president can federalize the guard when there’s a rebellion or threat of one, or if federal laws cannot be carried out, which he said is applicable in Portland.


…

The police brass spent most of Wednesday fielding questions about their vantage point of the protests and the responses by federal law enforcement.

Some demonstrators have veered from protected speech and into criminal activity, they acknowledged. Portland police have made 60 arrests since the protests began in June, for crimes ranging from throwing bricks and fireworks, to pointing lasers in federal officers’ eyes and starting fires.

The crowds have also pushed the boundaries of city ordinances, blocking traffic at times and publicly using drugs.
 
Denny Crane said:
But the police aren’t doing their job. That court ruling details a number of instances of that.
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Denny Crane said:
Some demonstrators have veered from protected speech and into criminal activity, they acknowledged. Portland police have made 60 arrests since the protests began in June, for crimes ranging from throwing bricks and fireworks, to pointing lasers in federal officers’ eyes and starting fires.

The crowds have also pushed the boundaries of city ordinances, blocking traffic at times and publicly using drugs.
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barfo
 
All those people thrown to the ground, pepper sprayed, minister hit in head with projectile while praying, blind man slammed to the curb, yeah, they sure need violence to control protesters.
 
Phatguysrule said:
How are police arresting people regularly if they aren't there?
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How are the feds needing to defend their people and property?

If the police can’t do it for lack of personnel, they should use the Guard.

If the local government is failing or refusing to do their jobs, the Feds can call in the guard themselves.
 
Denny Crane said:
How are the feds needing to defend their people and property?

If the police can’t do it for lack of personnel, they should use the Guard.

If the local government is failing or refusing to do their jobs, the Feds can call in the guard themselves.
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Have you been to downtown Portland in the last year? Last five years?
 
Denny Crane said:
How are the feds needing to defend their people and property?

If the police can’t do it for lack of personnel, they should use the Guard.

If the local government is failing or refusing to do their jobs, the Feds can call in the guard themselves.
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They aren't needing to defend anything. The police are handling it. Just like the police said. The evidence is that they are consistently arresting people for being too aggressive.
 
Phatguysrule said:
They aren't needing to defend anything. The police are handling it. Just like the police said. The evidence is that they are consistently arresting people for being too aggressive.
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The evidence is the guys in riot gear defending the perimeter of the building.
 
Denny Crane said:
The evidence is the guys in riot gear defending the perimeter of the building.
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They can put guys in riot gear around that building anytime they want. There is no threat required for that. That's not evidence of anything.

You projecting your fear on me doesn't give the government a right to violate my rights to help you feel better.

Individuals who have committed crimes have been arrested. Consistently. The police have kept track of that and said they do not need further help to maintain order.
 
Phatguysrule said:
They can put guys in riot gear around that building anytime they want. There is no threat required for that. That's not evidence of anything.

You projecting your fear on me doesn't give the government a right to violate my rights to help you feel better.

Individuals who have committed crimes have been arrested. Consistently. The police have kept track of that and said they do not need further help to maintain order.
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The evidence, still, is guys in riot gear protecting the people and property.

If there’s nothing to fear, they wouldn’t be out there.

www.kptv.com

Group claims responsibility for arson at Portland police training center

After a group claimed responsibility for setting fire to at least 15 PPB cars, Portland officials along with the FBI and U.S. Attorney’s Office spoke Wednesday about protest-related vandalism.
www.kptv.com www.kptv.com


www.wweek.com

Activists Set Portland Police Union Hall on Fire

Many protesters see powerful police unions, like the PPA, as a key obstacle to cities holding police officers accountable for misconduct or excessive violence.
www.wweek.com www.wweek.com

Nothing to fear.
 
Denny Crane said:
How are the feds needing to defend their people and property?

If the police can’t do it for lack of personnel, they should use the Guard.

If the local government is failing or refusing to do their jobs, the Feds can call in the guard themselves.
Click to expand...
I kinda saw the back in fourth between you guys, and I’m just going to say. I was a military policeman in the army for 6 years. They are NOT needed in this situation WHATSOEVER. That’s just it, there is NO situtuation! This whole thing is absolutely a waste of everybody’s time and money.
 
They had to tear gas and pepper spray and knock down the people in order to protect them. From naked bicyclists and frogs.
 
Denny Crane said:
The evidence, still, is guys in riot gear protecting the people and property.

If there’s nothing to fear, they wouldn’t be out there.

www.kptv.com

Group claims responsibility for arson at Portland police training center

After a group claimed responsibility for setting fire to at least 15 PPB cars, Portland officials along with the FBI and U.S. Attorney’s Office spoke Wednesday about protest-related vandalism.
www.kptv.com www.kptv.com


www.wweek.com

Activists Set Portland Police Union Hall on Fire

Many protesters see powerful police unions, like the PPA, as a key obstacle to cities holding police officers accountable for misconduct or excessive violence.
www.wweek.com www.wweek.com

Nothing to fear.
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That's not evidence of anything. Those were individual acts years ago.

In at least one case the protesters put the fire out and turned the people responsible in to the police.

Again, you can't just go get dressed up in riot gear and claim I'm attacking you to give the government the right to violate my rights. That's not acceptable.

I absolutely believe that Trump would create dangerous and false situations to further his political goals. Like unnecessarily stationing people in riot gear to give himself an excuse to escalate.
 
Phatguysrule said:
That's not evidence of anything. Those were individual acts years ago.

In at least one case the protesters put the fire out and turned the people responsible in to the police.

Again, you can't just go get dressed up in riot gear and claim I'm attacking you to give the government the right to violate my rights. That's not acceptable.
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I’m done pointing out the obvious. The ICE facility has an equally, if not greater, target on it than those others.

I wish it wasn’t happening, but it is what I see happening. It’s what he ran on and what he’s been doing since day 1 in his second term.

Sad to say, Trump will prevail in the courts. All it takes is for the feds to make a judgment and the local officials to refuse.
 
Denny Crane said:
I’m done pointing out the obvious. The ICE facility has an equally, if not greater, target on it than those others.
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But just because it has a target doesn't mean that anybody is attacking it. It certainly doesn't mean that there's anybody attacking it that can't be handled by local law enforcement.

Denny Crane said:
I wish it wasn’t happening, but it is what I see happening. It’s what he ran on and what he’s been doing since day 1 in his second term.
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If you think what is happening now is anywhere close to what was happening in the examples that you shared then you don't have a realistic perspective on what was happening then or now.

Which is understandable if you weren't there for both events.

There is nowhere near the aggressive behavior as there was back then. This is mild in comparison.

Which is why it is critical to listen to local authorities. If local authorities were asking for the help I probably wouldn't have a problem with it.

Denny Crane said:
Sad to say, Trump will prevail in the courts. All it takes is for the feds to make a judgment and the local officials to refuse.
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He may well prevail in court. He has a history of doing that. I don't think that his history of doing that is something that we should accept as the norm. I think if that's the way things are going to go then we need radical change. There is no reason for this country to accept such corruption.
 
The building has been under attack for months. It has windows boarded over due to damages. They say they had to close the building for most things for over a month.

A number of people (dozens) arrested and charged with federal crimes, including physical violence against the personnel. As you all like to point out, police have made (some, too few) arrests as well.

You cannot refute that the feds might fear for the safety of their property and personnel. That’s the problem.

The ultimate source may be the godawful policy why ICE is there in the first place. But a clear secondary source is real violence against the feds and the building.

I’m all in favor of protests. If you get face to face, within inches of these ICE officers, you are a threat.
 
Unarmed people close to heavily armed masked cops are not the threat. The heavily armed masked cops are the threat.
 
Denny Crane said:
The building has been under attack for months. It has windows boarded over due to damages. They say they had to close the building for most things for over a month.

A number of people (dozens) arrested and charged with federal crimes, including physical violence against the personnel. As you all like to point out, police have made (some, too few) arrests as well.

You cannot refute that the feds might fear for the safety of their property and personnel. That’s the problem.

The ultimate source may be the godawful policy why ICE is there in the first place. But a clear secondary source is real violence against the feds and the building.

I’m all in favor of protests. If you get face to face, within inches of these ICE officers, you are a threat.
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But don't you see how taking that stance allows a corrupt government the excuse to terrorize populations that they don't agree with until those populations are under authoritarian control?
 
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