Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters

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it looks like it says "the revolutiow has bacon"
 
I don't agree with their stance, and eventually when they are overtaken I hope that nobody on either side is injured. But listening to them, I feel for them. They may be misguided but they are well intentioned.
 
Had a friend who was into the whole militia/21st century anarchist thing. He was anything but a racist redneck . Just a ex-soldier who was a really pissed off at the repealing of the Basic Rights this country was founded upon. Yeah. I'm sure a lot if them are farmers who "Talk to God on a one way radio" though. But some of them have a different take on issues we don't even think about. We shouldn't dismiss them as unpassionate and undetermined.

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I have sympathy for them, like I have sympathy for people in the nuthouse that think they are Jesus, but neither group has a very good grasp on reality, and neither group should be allowed to run around loose.

barfo
 
So far in the thread, no one has succeeded in justifying a farmer serving 1 year in prison for doing controlled burning on property he has leased for many years, then a judge resentencing him under a terrorist law to 4 years and sending the "arsonist" back to prison.

Suggestion: Use the tricks of the media. Associate the Hammonds of Oregon, who pay their rent to the government and want the militia to stay out of it, with Ammon Bundy of California, who refuses to pay rent. Use the term "right-wing" liberally. Write "Hammond" near "Ammon" a lot to confuse the reader that Hammond opposes paying his rent.
 
Further said:
I don't agree with their stance, and eventually when they are overtaken I hope that nobody on either side is injured. But listening to them, I feel for them. They may be misguided but they are well intentioned.
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If they were black would they be "misguided" and "well intentioned"?

They took over Federal Land with guns... Looks like terrorism to me..
 
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jlprk said:
So far in the thread, no one has succeeded in justifying a farmer serving 1 year in prison for doing controlled burning on property he has leased for many years, then a judge resentencing him under a terrorist law to 4 years and sending the "arsonist" back to prison.

Suggestion: Use the tricks of the media. Associate the Hammonds of Oregon, who pay their rent to the government and want the militia to stay out of it, with Ammon Bundy of California, who refuses to pay rent. Use the term "right-wing" liberally. Write "Hammond" near "Ammon" a lot to confuse the reader that Hammond opposes paying his rent.
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It has been said that the burn was done to cover up poaching. Not sure how much truth is in that statement but if it is true...
 
dviss1 said:
If they were black would they be "misguided" and "well intentioned"?

They took over Federal Land with guns... Looks like terrorism to me..
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Yes, I would have said the exact same thing if they were Black. Quite frankly, I am more fearful of militia folk than I am of any Black organization I know of that's not religion affiliated, so I would most likely be more likely to give a Black group the benefit of the doubt and listen to what they are saying. Still doesn't mean I would agree with them.
 
Further said:
Yes, I would have said the exact same thing if they were Black. Quite frankly, I am more fearful of militia folk than I am of any Black organization I know of that's not religion affiliated, so I would most likely be more likely to give a Black group the benefit of the doubt and listen to what they are saying. Still doesn't mean I would agree with them.
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I'm not really asking what you'd say. I know where you stand. I'm just wondering how the media would report it.
 
dviss1 said:
I'm not really asking what you'd say. I know where you stand. I'm just wondering how the media would report it.
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I'm not sure, there is a difference between FOX, NY Times, CNN, Huff Post and NBC. But a big reason why some are listing is that the takeover was of an empty building and didn't harm any individuals. And they are tapping into a sentiment that is felt by many in rural areas, that the federal government is overstepping their bounds and infringing on the individuals rights to try and make a decent life for themselves. I think they are totally fucking wrong in this case, but you have to realize that the issues are compelling. My guess is if a group of Black people took over an empty building in the middle of nowhere and weren't encroaching on others, that people would likewise listen. Different people, but a similar amount. It would depend on the issue of course.
 
Just like I said about the BLM movement. I appreciate the cause but they are going about it the complete wrong way and I do not agree with these militia men doing this shit nor support them. Better ways to protest and demand action (for both groups)
 
jlprk said:
So far in the thread, no one has succeeded in justifying a farmer serving 1 year in prison for doing controlled burning on property he has leased for many years
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If I rent a house from you for many years, is it ok if I set fire to it?

barfo
 
blue32 said:
Just like I said about the BLM movement. I appreciate the cause but they are going about it the complete wrong way and I do not agree with these militia men doing this shit nor support them. Better ways to protest and demand action (for both groups)
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It seems pretty one-sided to me. The militia has tried to take control of BLM land, but I don't see BLM trying to take the militia's land.

barfo
 
dviss1 said:
It has been said that the burn was done to cover up poaching. Not sure how much truth is in that statement but if it is true...
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I have absolutely no doubt that there is far more to the original story than has been reported and that the Hammonds aren't completely innocent. But just as white people can't fully understand the black experience (and vice versa), those of us in the the PDX area and upper valley can't fully understand the issues, concerns and frustrations our rural cousins deal with as an every day as part of their lives. Because they are a minority in this state, they have no real representative government. Instead, they are bound by laws and rules voted in or written by a majority who have no clue about or sympathy for the lives they lead outside our immediate purview. That said, it doesn't excuse their lawless actions. But before the government goes in and makes the problem bigger, questions need to be answered. It seems to me that the federal government needs to be held at least as accountable as the Hammonds and the militia. Personally, I'm tired of government by the government for the government. That's not the way it's supposed to be....and the first and best lesson my mama EVER taught me is that there are two sides to every story.....
 
“The best possible outcome is that the ranchers that have been kicked out of the area, then they will come back and reclaim their land, and the wildlife refuge will be shut down forever and the federal government will relinquish such control,” Ryan Bundy told the Oregonian. “What we’re doing is not rebellious. What we’re doing is in accordance with the Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land.”

The Malheur National Wildlife Refuge was established on August 18, 1908 by President Theodore Roosevelt “as a preserve and breeding ground for native birds,” according to the park’s website.
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Those ranchers must be pretty damn old by now, given that they were kicked out more than 100 years ago.

barfo
 
barfo said:
Those ranchers must be pretty damn old by now, given that they were kicked out more than 100 years ago.

barfo
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They're preparing for the Zombies
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
I have absolutely no doubt that there is far more to the original story than has been reported and that the Hammonds aren't completely innocent. But just as white people can't fully understand the black experience (and vice versa), those of us in the the PDX area and upper valley can't fully understand the issues, concerns and frustrations our rural cousins deal with as an every day as part of their lives. Because they are a minority in this state, they have no real representative government. Instead, they are bound by laws and rules voted in or written by a majority who have no clue about or sympathy for the lives they lead outside our immediate purview. That said, it doesn't excuse their lawless actions. But before the government goes in and makes the problem bigger, questions need to be answered. It seems to me that the federal government needs to be held at least as accountable as the Hammonds and the militia. Personally, I'm tired of government by the government for the government. That's not the way it's supposed to be....and the first and best lesson my mama EVER taught me is that there are two sides to every story.....
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The place the militia has comandeered is a wildlife refuge. That's the end all be all. How can you blame the government for the actions of the Hammonds for possibly being arsonists to cover up their poaching? 90 days for burning a hundred and some odd acres? Sounds like the 90-day sentence was a slap on the wrist for something that was a terrible thing to do. More information will come out, but if it's true that they were poaching and they burned down land to cover it up, their balls should be nailed to the wall.
 
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UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
I have absolutely no doubt that there is far more to the original story than has been reported and that the Hammonds aren't completely innocent. But just as white people can't fully understand the black experience (and vice versa), those of us in the the PDX area and upper valley can't fully understand the issues, concerns and frustrations our rural cousins deal with as an every day as part of their lives. Because they are a minority in this state, they have no real representative government. Instead, they are bound by laws and rules voted in or written by a majority who have no clue about or sympathy for the lives they lead outside our immediate purview. That said, it doesn't excuse their lawless actions. But before the government goes in and makes the problem bigger, questions need to be answered. It seems to me that the federal government needs to be held at least as accountable as the Hammonds and the militia. Personally, I'm tired of government by the government for the government. That's not the way it's supposed to be....and the first and best lesson my mama EVER taught me is that there are two sides to every story.....
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That's a red herring if I've ever seen one. To rural people ANY regulation is government over reach. Having a wildlife refuge is a government over reach in their eyes.
 
I first became aware of the Hammonds and their Illegal activities back in the nineties when I was still a BLM employee.

The Hammonds have been deliberately violating just about any and every land-use and hunting law on the books since at least 1994. They have threatened the lives of BLM workers, endangered hundreds of their neighbors' lives and poached unknown numbers of game animals from Federal lands with impunity. They have continually set range fires that raged wild across Federal lands simply to cover their game poaching, again endangering hundreds of firefighters. They have used their wealth and "good ole boy" connections to intimidate most local law enforcement for decades. They are just typical, arrogant land barons who think they are above the law, and they are incredibly lucky they are not serving life in prison for the numerous deadly crimes they have committed without remorse.

The government has never taken any land from them nor do they have any legal claim to supposed "grandfathered" grazing rights or "historic" cattle trails.

http://www.morelaw.com/verdicts/case.asp?s=OR&d=83415
 
MARIS61 said:
I first became aware of the Hammonds and their Illegal activities back in the nineties when I was still a BLM employee.

The Hammonds have been deliberately violating just about any and every land-use and hunting law on the books since at least 1994. They have threatened the lives of BLM workers, endangered hundreds of their neighbors' lives and poached unknown numbers of game animals from Federal lands with impunity. They have continually set range fires that raged wild across Federal lands simply to cover their game poaching, again endangering hundreds of firefighters. They have used their wealth and "good ole boy" connections to intimidate most local law enforcement for decades. They are just typical, arrogant land barons who think they are above the law, and they are incredibly lucky they are not serving life in prison for the numerous deadly crimes they have committed without remorse.

The government has never taken any land from them nor do they have any legal claim to supposed "grandfathered" grazing rights or "historic" cattle trails.

http://www.morelaw.com/verdicts/case.asp?s=OR&d=83415
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And there you have it.
 
Just curious, what are everyone's thoughts on unregulated militias?
 
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