Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters (1 Viewer)

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I have not followed their decades long cause so I can't comment on that.

Neither have I, nor did any reporter check it out. We only got the short cut report about "Militia's.
However, I agree, their plan is poor. Damned if I know about their cause.
 
For those that do not understand how this situation began, here is a very good 20 min recap.



I dare anyone to watch this and still hold onto the spoon fed horse shit that the media feeds us.
 
They're clearly activists. They've been acting out against government land policies for decades. That is, by definition, a cause.

I kind of agree with Denny here. They are activists and they have a cause, albeit ignorant and misguided to the point of absurdity. But so what? Calling them activists or calling their actions civil disobedience doesn't change anything (anymore than calling them militia, or not, changes anything). Seems like an awful lot of concern in this thread with labels.

barfo
 
Neither have I, nor did any reporter check it out. We only got the short cut report about "Militia's.

That actually isn't true. There have been plenty of stories about their history and beliefs.

barfo
 
yeah, I'm bothered by this incident but it is what it is. I've had my rant..hope the locals in Burns can return to their normal lives soon.
 
I listened to their live chat...they're whackos..if they want to be activists, they should be in Washington DC protesting and leave this small rural community in peace. If they want to appeal a jail sentence...they should be in court. I disagree with the way they are doing this and I have not followed their decades long cause so I can't comment on that.

So... black people in the 60s shouldn't have marched in Selma because: 1) it's not court, 2) they should have left the community in peace?

I'm being even handed about this. They didn't go into the place shooting their guns or even pointing a gun at anyone. The building was locked and empty and they did break in. But lefties used to break into the dean's office at universities to have sit ins...

What these guys have done is raised awareness of their cause.

The FBI should simply lay siege to the place until they come out on their own. And they will, it's just a matter of time.
 
I grew up on a dairy farm in the Midwest..we raised cattle and all variety of livestock without invading public lands to feed them. We grew food for the amount of cattle we could sustain. Animal husbandry requires sensible management. If you can't feed your herd, it's time to thin the herd. These same cowboys slaughtered a wealth of Bison to make room for free range cattle ranching. Devastated the indigenous poplutions food source and source of material. This country has devoted an enormous portion of land to cattle. They really need that BLM land in Burns too?

I lived in the midwest. The beef was corn fed. When I moved to the west coast, the beef tasted different. It's grass fed. They graze on open range. When I lived in Pleasanton, it was "home on the range." Lots of pickup trucks with gun racks and hitching posts in front of the stores downtown. In the summer, the grass turned yellow/white as far as the eye could see. The cattle weren't restricted to a yard or anyone's ranch in particular.

I don't think these guys slaughtered a single buffalo. That's a whole different topic.
 
As I remember, they didn't steal vehicles and weren't armed in Selma.
Selma.jpg
Poor comparison in my view Denny...really poor comparison of events
 
The person who made this video seems very angry and very crazy. Not sure how much truth is actually there.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC3L8QaxqEGUiBC252GHy3w

ok..enlighten me. I have been following this from day one. Everything he states is correct as far as I can tell. I dont see this guys as crazy what so ever. In fact I would make more of a comparison to the occupy movement than the passing nod.

so be honest, Sly, did you watch it? I watch a lot of this guys stuff. I do not always agree with his take but he does a great job of bringing all of the information available, not just the presses slant.
 
What would have happened if the FBI never showed up in Burns?

(They shouldn't have).
 
What these guys have done is raised awareness of their cause.

Awareness? Yes. Support? No.

The FBI should simply lay siege to the place until they come out on their own.

I believe that's exactly what they've done so far.

barfo
 
ok..enlighten me. I have been following this from day one. Everything he states is correct as far as I can tell. I dont see this guys as crazy what so ever. In fact I would make more of a comparison to the occupy movement than the passing nod.

so be honest, Sly, did you watch it? I watch a lot of this guys stuff. I do not always agree with his take but he does a great job of bringing all of the information available, not just the presses slant.

Didn't watch it. Probably won't watch it. Someone who posts new videos everyday with the titles "The Truth about..." isn't someone I'm going to spend much time listening to.
 
What would have happened if the FBI never showed up in Burns?

I suppose a wildlife refuge would have been turned into a cattle ranch.

barfo
 
Didn't watch it. Probably won't watch it. Someone who posts new videos everyday with the titles "The Truth about..." isn't someone I'm going to spend much time listening to.

I appreciate your honesty, Too bad you wont take a look at the guy, he has a tremendous library on line a fairly strong following and is very informed on many topics.
 
Didn't watch it. Probably won't watch it. Someone who posts new videos everyday with the titles "The Truth about..." isn't someone I'm going to spend much time listening to.

Stick with the Militia take. It's more popular.
 
yeah..those crazy red necks with their guns...fit the narrative better than Ranchers protesting over reach of the government and abuse of power..demanding a review under their constitutional rights.
 
yeah..those crazy red necks with their guns...fit the narrative better than Ranchers protesting over reach of the government and abuse of power..demanding a review under their constitutional rights.
Isn't that what the courts are for? I didn't know we could just invade government offices when we believe our rights have been violated.
 
Isn't that what the courts are for? I didn't know we could just invade government offices when we believe our rights have been violated.

well, long story short, this began as an over reach in charging two land owning ranchers under terrorist laws. The first court gave them relatively light sentences, three months for one and one year and a day for the other.


The real issue began when the Feds stepped in to over ride sentencing and charged them as terrorists five years each.
 
well, long story short, this began as an over reach in charging two land owning ranchers under terrorist laws. The first court gave them relatively light sentences, three months for one and one year and a day for the other.


The real issue began when the Feds stepped in to over ride sentencing and charged them as terrorists five years each.




Hammond arson case
Early conflicts with federal land managers
In 1994, Dwight Hammond and his son Steve obstructed the construction of a fence to delineate the boundary between the two parcels of property, prompting their arrest by federal agents. According to federal officials, construction of the fence was needed to stop the Hammond cattle from moving along a cattle trail that intersected public land after the Hammonds had repeatedly violated the terms of their permit, which limited when they could move their cows across refuge property.[41] Officials also reported Hammond had made threats against them in 1986 and 1988, including telling one public lands manager that he was going to "tear off his head and shit down his neck". They also contended that Steve Hammond had called them "assholes".[44] Following their release from jail on recognizance, a rally attended by 500 other cattle ranchers was held in support of the Hammonds in Burns, and then-congressman Robert Freeman Smith wrote a letter of protest to the United States Secretary of the Interior, Bruce Babbitt.[41]

In 1995, voters, angry that it had not intervened on the Hammonds' behalf, attempted to recall two members of the Harney County Court,[44] though the recall attempt failed. Charges against the Hammonds were later dropped.[40]

In 1999, Steve Hammond started a fire with the intent of burning off juniper trees and sagebrush, but the fire escaped onto BLM land. The agency reminded Hammond of the required burn permit and that if the fires continued, there would be legal consequences.[45]

Fires for which the Hammonds were convicted
Both Dwight and Steve Hammond later set two fires, one in 2001 and one in 2006, that would lead to convictions of arson on federal land:[46][47]

  • The 2001 Hardie-Hammond fire began, according to Probation Officer Robb, when hunters in the area witnessed the Hammonds illegally slaughter a herd of deer.[48] Less than two hours later, a fire erupted and forced the hunters to leave the area, allegedly also to conceal evidence of the illegal killing of the deer.[49] Later, Steve's nephew Dusty Hammond testified that his uncle told him to start lighting matches and "light the whole countryside on fire." Dusty also testified that he was "almost burned up in the fire" and had to flee for his life.[45][50] The Hammonds have claimed they started the fire to stop invasive plants from growing onto their grazing fields.[51]
  • The 2006 Krumbo Butte fire started out as a wildfire, but several illegal backburns were set by the Hammonds with the intent to protect their winter feed. The backfires were set under the cover of night without warning the firefighting camp that was known to be on the slopes above.[49][52] According to the indictment, the fires threatened to trap four BLM firefighters, one of whom later confronted Dwight Hammond at the fire scene after he had moved his crews to avoid the threat.[49][50] Two days later, according to federal prosecutors, Steve Hammond threatened to frame a BLM employee with arson if he didn't stop the investigation.[51]
Mid trial pre-sentencing agreement
In 2012, the Hammonds were tried in federal district court on multiple charges. During a break in jury deliberations, partial verdict were rendered finding the Hammonds not guilty on two of the charges, but convicting them on two counts of arson on federal land.[49] Striking a plea bargain, in order to have the four remaining charges dismissed and for sentences on the two convictions to run concurrently, the Hammonds waived their rights to appeal their convictions. This was with their knowledge that the trial would proceed to sentencing where the prosecution intended to seek imposition of the mandatory five-year minimum sentences.[49][53]

Sentencing hearing, appeals of the sentence, and re-sentencing
At sentencing, the federal prosecutors requested the five-year mandatory minimum under the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 (AEDPA).[52][54][55] U.S. District Judge Michael Robert Hogan independently decided that sentences of that length "would shock the conscience" and would violate the constitutional prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment. On his last day on the bench, October 31, 2012, Hogan instead sentenced Dwight Hammond to three months' imprisonment and Steve Hammond to a year and a day's imprisonment, which both men served.[56][57] In what was described by one source as a "rare" action,[58] U.S. Attorney Amanda Marshall successfully appealed the sentence to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, which upheld the mandatory-minimum law, writing that "given the seriousness of arson, a five-year sentence is not grossly disproportionate to the offense." The court vacated the original sentence and remanded for re-sentencing. The Hammonds filed petitions for certiorari with the Supreme Court, which the court rejected in March 2015.[54] In October 2015, Chief Judge Ann Aiken re-sentenced the pair to five years in prison (with credit for time served), ordering that they return to prison on January 4, 2016.[54][57]

Both of the Hammonds reported to prison in California on January 4 as ordered by the court.[59] A few days earlier, the Hammonds also paid the federal government the remaining balance on a $400,000 court order for restitution related to the arson fires.[52]
 

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