Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters

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Denny Crane said:
Because Manson was evil, so were all the hippies.

I see.
Click to expand...
more like Manson was a violent, mentally ill guy who ranted for people to join his cause...and for the record, they weren't hippies, not that there aren't violent mentally ill hippies...they were mostly trailer trash girls with daddy issues...the comparison is that one bad apple can insight events with horrible consequences. Almost every thread about killings in schools, churches, office places...eventually comes down to a debate about being stable enough to get a weapons permit...clearly in this guys case..the system failed the background check.
 
riverman said:
more like Manson was a violent, mentally ill guy who ranted for people to join his cause...and for the record, they weren't hippies, not that there aren't violent mentally ill hippies...they were mostly trailer trash girls with daddy issues...the comparison is that one bad apple can insight events with horrible consequences. Almost every thread about killings in schools, churches, office places...eventually comes down to a debate about being stable enough to get a weapons permit...clearly in this guys case..the system failed the background check.
Click to expand...

"clearly."
 
Denny Crane said:
The red is government land, not Paiute land. It used to ALL be Paiute land.

The government took their land.

View attachment 7727
Click to expand...
According to Wikipedia..there are at least 500 tribes in the red area from Shasta up through Oregon
  • Umatilla people (redirect from Umatilla (tribe))
    The Umatilla are a Sahaptin-speaking Native American tribe who traditionally inhabited the Columbia Plateau region of the northwestern United States,
    4 KB (361 words) - 21:38, 8 September 2015
  • Bannock people (redirect from Bannock Tribes)
    southeastern Oregon, southern Idaho, and western Wyoming. Today they are enrolled in the federally recognized Shoshone-Bannock Tribes of the Fort Hall
    5 KB (456 words) - 06:00, 9 July 2015
  • Siletz (redirect from Siletz (tribe))
    The Siletz are a Native American tribe from Oregon and an Indigenous people of the Northwest Plateau. Today they are enrolled in the federally recognized
    3 KB (316 words) - 04:47, 15 March 2015
  • Shasta people (redirect from Shasta tribe)
    Confederated Tribes of the Grand Ronde Community of Oregon. Many former members of the Shasta tribe have since been inducted into the Karuk and Alturas tribes. Some
    4 KB (459 words) - 17:36, 15 January 2016
  • Molala (category NativeAmericantribesinOregon)
    area in central Oregon, United States. They are one of the Confederated Tribes of the Grand Ronde Community of Oregon, with 141 of the 882 members in the
    5 KB (553 words) - 02:27, 12 December 2015
  • Karuk (redirect from Karuk tribe)
    California and the Karuk Tribe is one of the largest tribes in California. Karuks are also enrolled in two other federally recognized tribes, the Cher-Ae Heights
    10 KB (1,088 words) - 22:47, 20 September 2015
  • Umpqua people (redirect from Umpqua (NativeAmericans))
    Umpqua are any of several distinct groups of Native Americans that live in present-day south central Oregon in the United States. The Upper Umpqua people
    5 KB (578 words) - 23:05, 29 January 2016
  • Tolowa (category NativeAmericantribesinOregon)
    California and southern Oregon. Tolowa are members of the federally recognized Tolowa Dee-ni’ Nation, Elk Valley Rancheria, Confederated Tribes of Siletz, Trinidad
    8 KB (916 words) - 22:51, 20 September 2015
  • Siuslaw people (redirect from Siuslaw (tribe))
    of the three Confederated Tribes of Coos, Lower Umpqua and Siuslaw Indians located on the southwest Oregon Pacific coast in the United States. Lower Umpqua
    1 KB (100 words) - 14:41, 28 January 2016
  • Wasco-Wishram (redirect from Wasco tribe)
    Indian tribes from the Columbia River in Oregon. Today the tribes are part of the Warm Springs Reservation in Oregon and Confederated Tribes and Bands
    6 KB (753 words) - 20:40, 10 August 2015
  • Yaquina people (redirect from Yaquina (tribe))
    Yaquina people live on the Siletz Reservation in Oregon, and are mostly of mixed blood.[citation needed] Native American genealogy on the Yaquina tribe
    723 bytes (58 words) - 02:17, 1 March 2013
  • Multnomah people (redirect from Multnomah (tribe))
    The Multnomah were a tribe of Chinookan people who lived in the area of Portland, Oregon, in the United States through the early 19th century. Multnomah
    3 KB (381 words) - 04:07, 17 April 2015
  • Tillamook people (redirect from Tillamook (tribe))
    The Nehalem or Tillamook are a Native American tribe from Oregon of the Salish linguistic group. The name "Tillamook" is a Chinook term meaning "people
    8 KB (947 words) - 00:21, 5 January 2016
  • Clackamas people (redirect from Clackamas (tribe))
    Clackamas Indians are a tribe of Native Americans of the U.S. state of Oregon who traditionally lived along the Clackamas River in the Willamette Valley
    2 KB (241 words) - 17:22, 17 April 2014
  • Coos people (redirect from Coos (tribe))
    Confederated Tribes of the Coos, Lower Umpqua and Siuslaw Indians of Oregon Confederated Tribes of Siletz Indians of Oregon Coquille Indian Tribe. The Coos
    5 KB (471 words) - 22:26, 20 December 2015
  • Palus people (redirect from Palus (tribe))
    enrolled in the federally recognized Confederated Tribes and Bands of the Yakama Nation and are represented by the Colville Confederated Tribes. The people
    6 KB (600 words) - 00:09, 2 February 2015
  • Chinookan peoples (redirect from Chinook Indian Tribe)
    Columbia River but in present-day Oregon and Washington. The Chinook tribes were those encountered by the Lewis and Clark Expedition in 1805 on the lower
    10 KB (1,097 words) - 05:55, 16 January 2016
  • Alsea (redirect from Alsea (tribe))
    were a Native American tribe of Western Oregon. They are probably extinct, although a few members may be mixed in with the Confederated Tribes of Siletz
    4 KB (440 words) - 08:30, 11 June 2015
  • Tahltan (category NativeAmericantribesinOregon)
    This family originated in the Interior toward the headwaters of the Taku River. This is the most numerous family of the tribe, also represented by the
    10 KB (1,135 words) - 07:21, 6 November 2015

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and I forgot to mention santesioux in Klamath falls....tribe of one
 
riverman said:
According to Wikipedia..there are at least 500 tribes in the red area from Shasta up through Oregon
  • Umatilla people (redirect from Umatilla (tribe))
    The Umatilla are a Sahaptin-speaking Native American tribe who traditionally inhabited the Columbia Plateau region of the northwestern United States,
    4 KB (361 words) - 21:38, 8 September 2015
  • Bannock people (redirect from Bannock Tribes)
    southeastern Oregon, southern Idaho, and western Wyoming. Today they are enrolled in the federally recognized Shoshone-Bannock Tribes of the Fort Hall
    5 KB (456 words) - 06:00, 9 July 2015
  • Siletz (redirect from Siletz (tribe))
    The Siletz are a Native American tribe from Oregon and an Indigenous people of the Northwest Plateau. Today they are enrolled in the federally recognized
    3 KB (316 words) - 04:47, 15 March 2015
  • Shasta people (redirect from Shasta tribe)
    Confederated Tribes of the Grand Ronde Community of Oregon. Many former members of the Shasta tribe have since been inducted into the Karuk and Alturas tribes. Some
    4 KB (459 words) - 17:36, 15 January 2016
  • Molala (category NativeAmericantribesinOregon)
    area in central Oregon, United States. They are one of the Confederated Tribes of the Grand Ronde Community of Oregon, with 141 of the 882 members in the
    5 KB (553 words) - 02:27, 12 December 2015
  • Karuk (redirect from Karuk tribe)
    California and the Karuk Tribe is one of the largest tribes in California. Karuks are also enrolled in two other federally recognized tribes, the Cher-Ae Heights
    10 KB (1,088 words) - 22:47, 20 September 2015
  • Umpqua people (redirect from Umpqua (NativeAmericans))
    Umpqua are any of several distinct groups of Native Americans that live in present-day south central Oregon in the United States. The Upper Umpqua people
    5 KB (578 words) - 23:05, 29 January 2016
  • Tolowa (category NativeAmericantribesinOregon)
    California and southern Oregon. Tolowa are members of the federally recognized Tolowa Dee-ni’ Nation, Elk Valley Rancheria, Confederated Tribes of Siletz, Trinidad
    8 KB (916 words) - 22:51, 20 September 2015
  • Siuslaw people (redirect from Siuslaw (tribe))
    of the three Confederated Tribes of Coos, Lower Umpqua and Siuslaw Indians located on the southwest Oregon Pacific coast in the United States. Lower Umpqua
    1 KB (100 words) - 14:41, 28 January 2016
  • Wasco-Wishram (redirect from Wasco tribe)
    Indian tribes from the Columbia River in Oregon. Today the tribes are part of the Warm Springs Reservation in Oregon and Confederated Tribes and Bands
    6 KB (753 words) - 20:40, 10 August 2015
  • Yaquina people (redirect from Yaquina (tribe))
    Yaquina people live on the Siletz Reservation in Oregon, and are mostly of mixed blood.[citation needed] Native American genealogy on the Yaquina tribe
    723 bytes (58 words) - 02:17, 1 March 2013
  • Multnomah people (redirect from Multnomah (tribe))
    The Multnomah were a tribe of Chinookan people who lived in the area of Portland, Oregon, in the United States through the early 19th century. Multnomah
    3 KB (381 words) - 04:07, 17 April 2015
  • Tillamook people (redirect from Tillamook (tribe))
    The Nehalem or Tillamook are a Native American tribe from Oregon of the Salish linguistic group. The name "Tillamook" is a Chinook term meaning "people
    8 KB (947 words) - 00:21, 5 January 2016
  • Clackamas people (redirect from Clackamas (tribe))
    Clackamas Indians are a tribe of Native Americans of the U.S. state of Oregon who traditionally lived along the Clackamas River in the Willamette Valley
    2 KB (241 words) - 17:22, 17 April 2014
  • Coos people (redirect from Coos (tribe))
    Confederated Tribes of the Coos, Lower Umpqua and Siuslaw Indians of Oregon Confederated Tribes of Siletz Indians of Oregon Coquille Indian Tribe. The Coos
    5 KB (471 words) - 22:26, 20 December 2015
  • Palus people (redirect from Palus (tribe))
    enrolled in the federally recognized Confederated Tribes and Bands of the Yakama Nation and are represented by the Colville Confederated Tribes. The people
    6 KB (600 words) - 00:09, 2 February 2015
  • Chinookan peoples (redirect from Chinook Indian Tribe)
    Columbia River but in present-day Oregon and Washington. The Chinook tribes were those encountered by the Lewis and Clark Expedition in 1805 on the lower
    10 KB (1,097 words) - 05:55, 16 January 2016
  • Alsea (redirect from Alsea (tribe))
    were a Native American tribe of Western Oregon. They are probably extinct, although a few members may be mixed in with the Confederated Tribes of Siletz
    4 KB (440 words) - 08:30, 11 June 2015
  • Tahltan (category NativeAmericantribesinOregon)
    This family originated in the Interior toward the headwaters of the Taku River. This is the most numerous family of the tribe, also represented by the
    10 KB (1,135 words) - 07:21, 6 November 2015
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Click to expand...

oregon.jpg
 
Sure. Government always kept its bargains with the Indians.

The reality is:

upload_2016-1-31_15-9-58.png
 
I'm failing to see why you are arguing the government took land from 500 tribes as if that makes anything better :)
 
Denny Crane said:
I'm failing to see why you are arguing the government took land from 500 tribes as if that makes anything better :)
Click to expand...
I'm actually not...I'm arguing about when it happened because the gov't showed up much later in the case of the Paiutte wars...decades later. Oregon was not part of the US in 1840....now why are you arguing that? I think because it's an opportunity to dig at the gov't and put up a smokescreen letting settlers and invading European adventurers off the hook......it can't be blamed on Obama then..it has to be the evil military right?
 
riverman said:
I'm actually not...I'm arguing about when it happened because the gov't showed up much later in the case of the Paiutte wars...decades later. Oregon was not part of the US in 1840....now why are you arguing that? I think because it's an opportunity to dig at the gov't and put up a smokescreen letting settlers and invading European adventurers off the hook......it can't be blamed on Obama then..it has to be the evil military right?
Click to expand...

I don't think it matters about 1840. The map I showed wasn't so red at that point. The feds owned none of it, eh? Or did they buy it in the La Purchase? Did the French have the right to sell the Indians' land to the US government?
 
Denny Crane said:
I don't think it matters about 1840. The map I showed wasn't so red at that point. The feds owned none of it, eh? Or did they buy it in the La Purchase? Did the French have the right to sell the Indians' land to the US government?
Click to expand...
Louisiana Purchase did not include the areas of discussion...the Oregon territory was purchase in 1846 ...6 years after the Paiutte wars from Great Britain
UnitedStatesExpansion.png
 
riverman said:
I don't get the going to the tree unless it was just thrown in to rhyme with hang me....what a depressing dirge..I won't be buying the CD
Click to expand...

I'm looking forward to the rap remix.
 
Every state that entered the union east of the Mississippi, the federal government sold off or gave away the vast majority of any land it owned as a result of the state joining.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...egon-occupiers-complaint-explained-in-9-maps/

Early in the history of the country, the government took over land that was then distributed to citizens for farming and economic growth. As the United States expanded westward, the land was increasingly inhospitable, including the Rockies and the deserts of Nevada and Utah. By the end of the 19th century, a new focus was placed on conserving the land, with Yellowstone becoming the first national park in 1872. At that point, very few people lived in the area, as this 1890 Census Bureau map suggests.

Over the course of the 20th century, the government's emphasis shifted away from releasing the land to private citizens and toward managing it itself. The passage of 1976's Federal Land Policy and Management Act made that policy concrete, keeping the land as the property of the government. After the federal government's shift, there was a push from some in the West, including governors and members of Congress, to shift control from the federal to the state or local government. The Sagebrush Rebellion, as it was known, tapered off during the relative friendly administration of Ronald Reagan.

...


"From the earliest days," the CRS researchers write, "these policy views took on East/West overtones, with easterners more likely to view the lands as national public property, and westerners more likely to view the lands as necessary for local use and development."

That's one reason for the objection from Westerners. The other is that the lock-down on the land came after the East was heavily settled but before the West had been. In the East, land was turned over to farmers. In the West, settled later in the country's history, there were fewer people to hand it to.
 
Denny Crane said:
I don't think it matters about 1840. The map I showed wasn't so red at that point. The feds owned none of it, eh? Or did they buy it in the La Purchase? Did the French have the right to sell the Indians' land to the US government?
Click to expand...
Nobody had the right to sell Native American lands period...but this has gone on since the beginning of time. Roman officers were given large tracts of land upon conquering Gauls or Huns or whoever they wanted..Guns, germs and steel....not that having superior power meant any nation should wield it for personal gain.
 
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