Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters

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Cool, so all they want is to be pardoned. Good luck with that.

barfo
 
"People so scared didn't even pack their stuff. Thought feds were coming to kill everyone. Waco style."

 
The feds earned their reputation. Waco style.
 
DaLincolnJones said:
well, long story short, this began as an over reach in charging two land owning ranchers under terrorist laws. The first court gave them relatively light sentences, three months for one and one year and a day for the other.


The real issue began when the Feds stepped in to over ride sentencing and charged them as terrorists five years each.
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WTF are you talking about? There's a mandatory minimum sentence for their crime. You know the mandatory minimum sentences that conservatives seem to love unless they are levied against them.
 
dviss1 said:
Amazing... Do you think they would have shot him if he didn't try to pull out his gun?
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Cops are never wrong when they shoot anyone. Right?

Just like in the inner cities, the cops shouldn't be looking to instigate things when they could find a truly peaceful means to the desired result.

I think if they would have not tried to arrest him against his will, he would have surrendered on his own after more siege time. The group was already shrinking by attrition, and they actually weren't hurting a soul.
 
Denny Crane said:
Just like in the inner cities, the cops shouldn't be looking to instigate things when they could find a truly peaceful means to the desired result.
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Forget it Denny. You are like the one eyed man among the sightless. err perhaps that is thoughtless.
 

Here's a threat to shoot cops and a call for anyone behind them to kill cops
 
Denny Crane said:
Cops are never wrong when they shoot anyone. Right?

Just like in the inner cities, the cops shouldn't be looking to instigate things when they could find a truly peaceful means to the desired result.

I think if they would have not tried to arrest him against his will, he would have surrendered on his own after more siege time. The group was already shrinking by attrition, and they actually weren't hurting a soul.
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Arrest him against his will? So let's just get this straight:

It's ok to pull out your firearm when a federal agent is taking you into custody?
 
dviss1 said:
Arrest him against his will? So let's just get this straight:

It's ok to pull out your firearm when a federal agent is taking you into custody?
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I didn't say that.

It came to violence because the FBI used violence.

If they would have waited, the guy would have got bored and gone home.

What crime did he commit? Trespassing? Death penalty!
 
dviss1 said:
So you can admit what happened to Tamir Rice was wrong then?

Or no....?
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I had a confrontation with a black guy that said he would cut me from pecker to chin. This was a time when I was assigned to Shore Patrol in Olongapo Philippines. The confrontation started just after my partner and I were hailed by a bar owner while we were on patrol. The fellow was brandishing his blade making big and bad. I asked my partner to call for backup while the guy and I played no blink.

It took about 4 minutes or so for the backup, the regular shore patrol to show up and I imagine that was a very long four minutes for the guy with a the knife. He had to stay or attack me and the billy club. He choose to stay and wait, by the time the regulars arrived he had put his knife away and went peacefully to the brig.

I see no reason to kill a man util you need to do it. Given the alternative most lose the big and bad in a short time when they are given the time to think about it. Police policy and procedure seem to lack this perspective in favor of projecting police dominance.
 
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I don't agree with shooting anyone if there's an alternative way to take them in. The dude had a loaded 9mm pistol in the pocket he reached in. He didn't say he was surrendering his weapon. The FBI monitored verbal threats of armed confrontation by these so called militia guys..I posted a link that clearly shows this was not a peaceful protest.
 
riverman said:
I don't agree with shooting anyone if there's an alternative way to take them in. The dude had a loaded 9mm pistol in the pocket he reached in. He didn't say he was surrendering his weapon. The FBI monitored verbal threats of armed confrontation by these so called militia guys..I posted a link that clearly shows this was not a peaceful protest.
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Sorry riverman, the guy was on foot, ass deep in a snow bank. No fucking way to go anywhere. He did not need to be shot. The snow bank would change his demeanor in due course.
I don't know that it had not already changed, his hands were up, then apparently he was shot. Another 10 minutes in the snow bank and perhaps we have a different ending. Maybe even more time would be needed.
 
MarAzul said:
Sorry riverman, the guy was on foot, ass deep in a snow bank. No fucking way to go anywhere. He did not need to be shot. The snow bank would change his demeanor in due course.
I don't know that it had not already changed, his hands were up, then apparently he was shot. Another 10 minutes in the snow bank and perhaps we have a different ending. Maybe even more time would be needed.
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He could have shot someone "ass deep in a snow bank." He was reaching for a gun. So because it would have difficult for him to run away after he shot a state police officer, who could have been a relative of yours, the police should have just let themselves get shot?

Makes perfect sense.

*Can he run away?* Y/N

"If no let them shoot you.*
 
MarAzul said:
Sorry riverman, the guy was on foot, ass deep in a snow bank. No fucking way to go anywhere. He did not need to be shot. The snow bank would change his demeanor in due course.
I don't know that it had not already changed, his hands were up, then apparently he was shot. Another 10 minutes in the snow bank and perhaps we have a different ending. Maybe even more time would be needed.
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MarAzul..he reached in his pocket which held a loaded pistol....you can't do that with both hands up...he didn't surrender vocally either. We can spin scenario's that would have saved his life but he put himself in harm's way against an organization he had verbally declared war on
 
riverman said:
I don't agree with shooting anyone if there's an alternative way to take them in. The dude had a loaded 9mm pistol in the pocket he reached in. He didn't say he was surrendering his weapon. The FBI monitored verbal threats of armed confrontation by these so called militia guys..I posted a link that clearly shows this was not a peaceful protest.
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They used fighting words!

OMG, kill them.
 
MarAzul said:
I sure hope it was not. No pride in that action. It looked like a gun down to me.
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Levoy charged a police road block in his truck, swerved to miss spike strips, lost control and crashed into a snow bank, almost hitting a state police officer, then jumps out of the truck, and doesn't listen to police commands.

If a black or Mexican would have done this you'd be praising the police.
 
If the FBI never left their office, then what?
 
riverman said:
he reached in his pocket which held a loaded pistol
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Do you know that? Did he die with a gun in his hand? I don't know these things from only seeing the video.
What I do know is that it is very remote between Burns and John Day, likely cold as the moon too. Two hours out there and he can't even hold a gun let alone shoot the damn thing.
Looks like cops getting a chance to exorcizer some fucked up training is my take.
 
riverman said:
You declare war on the gov 't...you've got a fight on your hands..what makes them different? The fact that they are right wing whites?
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The fact that they were harmless.
 
MarAzul said:
Do you know that? Did he die with a gun in his hand? I don't know these things from only seeing the video.
What I do know is that it is very remote between Burns and John Day, likely cold as the moon too. Two hours out there and he can't even hold a gun let alone shoot the damn thing.
Looks like cops getting a chance to exorcizer some fucked up training is my take.
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I read the coverage...when I started posting on the thread, I did not know much but since then I've followed the story...it's not my job to defend the guy..I disagree with everything they are doing and mostly the way they are doing it..watch the video clip I posted..sound like a peaceful occupation?
 
Denny Crane said:
If the FBI never left their office, then what?
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Eventually, community members take the refuge back by force, dozens die. It was on the verge of happening.

That's why we have law enforcement officers.

To enforce the law.

As you often say, don't like the laws, change them.
 
MARIS61 said:
Eventually, community members take the refuge back by force, dozens die. It was on the verge of happening.

That's why we have law enforcement officers.

To enforce the law.

As you often say, don't like the laws, change them.
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If this were a jumper on the bridge, the FBI would have been yelling "jump already."
 
Denny Crane said:
The fact that they were harmless.
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They were threatening people, on video, even following people to their homes. They formed an armed camp on government property. You're trying so very hard to portray this as someone sort of patriot Woodstock.
 
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