Miller Expects to start

[PapaG]

It doesn't bother you that what he's doing has never worked for him in the past? That he's just continuing to do the same thing? Odd that you have a double standard for players, based on, seemingly, what YOU think is the right approach. Since neither have had playoff success.

Who is saying that working out is the same as not working out? Where has anyone made that argument that those two things are the same thing? I was mentioning that differing offseason approaches have thus far returned the same result. You are annoyed that the one you think is better is not being followed by our new PG. But you seem to want to distance yourself from actually taking a stand about it by making generic statements, and saying well, it hasn't worked in the past. And neither has what Blake has done in the past. Maybe Blake's postseason failures are a result of him working too hard in the offseason, and tiring out once the playoffs hit, who knows?

I'm reading it as you are saying this, at least in the way you are applying "my logic" to your Blake argument. Again, maybe Blake's postseason failures are a result of him working too hard in the offseason. Maybe he should sit on his ass like Miller. I don't know that answer to that one either. You keep supplying my opinion for me; unfortunately, it isn't even close to my opinion.

 

[RR7]

Your opinion seemed to be, and correct me if I'm worng, because I don't know if you're giving an opinion, or just pointing stuff out for us, but you're opinion seems to be that Miller should be working out with the team. Yes? No?
Now, your backing for this opinion, or part of the reasoning, was that what he has been doing has not resulted in success in the playoffs. Correct?

 

[PapaG]

Your opinion seemed to be, and correct me if I'm worng, because I don't know if you're giving an opinion, or just pointing stuff out for us, but you're opinion seems to be that Miller should be working out with the team. Yes? No?
Now, your backing for this opinion, or part of the reasoning, was that what he has been doing has not resulted in success in the playoffs. Correct?

No. Miller can do what he wants to do.

 

[RR7]

I understand he could do what he wants. Thanks for pointing that out. We're not discussing what he can and can't do.
Do you have an opinion on the topic? Or did you just come to post what each was doing with their respective times this summer?

 

[PapaG]

I understand he could do what he wants. Thanks for pointing that out. We're not discussing what he can and can't do.
Do you have an opinion on the topic? Or did you just come to post what each was doing with their respective times this summer?

I'd like to see Miller here soon, but I'm not upset that he is not.

 

[gatorpops]

Well, the only one I care about is winning in the postseason, so you can continue to comment on your red herrings.

Not working out in the summer = no playoff series won in career. That's my focus. Discuss it, or continue to throw out ridiculous asides that take the focus off of the bolded statement.

So, it's correlation in that regard. The "neither" was for the silly Powerball example, since that is based on luck and not effort.

PapaG, can't you use the same logic with Blake then? Blake has won the same number of playoffs as Miller so maybe he needs to be the one to change his approach. Just asking?

 

[Natebishop3]

Allen Iverson is one of the worst practicing players in the NBA, and he made it to the NBA Finals.

 

[PapaG]

Allen Iverson is one of the worst practicing players in the NBA, and he made it to the NBA Finals.

Kobe Bryant works on his game all summer long. He's won 4 titles.

We can do this all day, I guess.

 

[PapaG]

PapaG, can't you use the same logic with Blake then? Blake has won the same number of playoffs as Miller so maybe he needs to be the one to change his approach. Just asking?

Yeah, I said that already. The new approach to improving your game...do nothing. Seems illogical in athletics, but in a vacuum, it makes sense.

 

[Natebishop3]

Kobe Bryant works on his game all summer long. He's won 4 titles.

We can do this all day, I guess.

Rasheed Wallace is one of the laziest players in the league. He's won a championship. We CAN do this all day. What does it mean? It means nothing. A championship is won or lost by a team of 12 or more individuals. Kobe Bryant busts his ass in the offseason, but he hadn't won a championship without shaq until last season.

This isn't as simple as A+B=C

 

[PapaG]

Rasheed Wallace is one of the laziest players in the league. He's won a championship. We CAN do this all day. What does it mean? It means nothing. A championship is won or lost by a team of 12 or more individuals. Kobe Bryant busts his ass in the offseason, but he hadn't won a championship without shaq until last season.

This isn't as simple as A+B=C

I never said it was simple. As I said, Miller can do whatever he wants. I'll comment on his results as I see fit.

 

[RR7]

But you use flawed logic to backup your opinions.

 

[PapaG]

But you use flawed logic to backup your opinions.

What opinions?

 

[Natebishop3]

What opinions?

Is this the Jedi mind trick?

 

[PapaG]

Is this the Jedi mind trick?

No, I'm wondering what my opinion is on this, as he sees it. I don't really have one, at least not one I'm passionate about enough to hold a negative view on Miller.

If the supposed argument is purely logical, let's discuss the parameters instead of assuming all parts are equal.

 

[oldmangrouch]

In the off-season, players need to strike a balance between getting in shape and letting the injuries (and simple wear-and-tear) of the prior season heal. That balance will be different for each player. It will be several months before we can see who did/didn't get it right.

On a different subject.......

Turkyglue just landed a very nice contract, based not on his own merits, but on the reflected glory from Orlando's run to the finals. Many of us have questioned whether the Raps made a good decision, and felt the Blazers dodged a bullet. Miller is the opposite side of that coin. Playing on bad teams has tarnished his reputation....and some of us don't think *that* is right either.

 

[RR7]

What opinions?

Sorry, should have said you were using flawed logic to enhance or support statements made about Miller. Making the assumption that it was his offseason work that caused his playoff losses, which would imply a correlation between offseason work and playoff team performance.

 

[PapaG]

Sorry, should have said you were using flawed logic to enhance or support statements made about Miller. Making the assumption that it was his offseason work that caused his playoff losses, which would imply a correlation between offseason work and playoff team performance.

I never made that assumption. In fact, I was clear to point out that there was only a correlation between the lack of work in the offseason and the lack of postseason success. Mook even posed the question "correlation or causation". I answer neither for his "Powerball" analogy, and correlation for the actual topic being discussed.

This is our disconnect. You are attributing to me a position that I simply do not hold.

 

[Natebishop3]

I never made that assumption. In fact, I was clear to point out that there was only a correlation between the lack of work in the offseason and the lack of postseason success. Mook even posed the question "correlation or causation". I answer neither for his "Powerball" analogy, and correlation for the actual topic being discussed.

This is our disconnect. You are attributing to me a position that I simply do not hold.

But Miller HAS had postseason success. He played very well in the playoffs last season. That's your correlation. Work hard in the offseason, play well in the playoffs. What else is he supposed to do? He can only play his best. Nobody has ever said that Miller is LeBron or Jordan. He can't will a team to victory. Logging a couple extra hours in the gym during the summer isn't going to change his teammates. Go look at his stats and tell me he didn't perform well in the playoffs.

 

[RR7]

And how do you prove the correlation between lack of team success to Miller's actions during the offseason? Is it really as simple for you that because he has not done one, and not achieved another, there is a relationship between the two? That there are no other factors involved?

 

[PapaG]

But Miller HAS had postseason success. He played very well in the playoffs last season. That's your correlation. Work hard in the offseason, play well in the playoffs. What else is he supposed to do? He can only play his best. Nobody has ever said that Miller is LeBron or Jordan. He can't will a team to victory. Logging a couple extra hours in the gym during the summer isn't going to change his teammates. Go look at his stats and tell me he didn't perform well in the playoffs.

For me, a PG is judged in large part by the success of his team. This doesn't mean he needs to work out in the summer, though. As for Miller's postseason success, I'll point out that Rafer Alston had his best series against Philly. I'm not sure if that means anything, but Alston's team won the series with him going 15/5.

 

[PapaG]

And how do you prove the correlation between lack of team success to Miller's actions during the offseason? Is it really as simple for you that because he has not done one, and not achieved another, there is a relationship between the two? That there are no other factors involved?

Proving a correlation is rather easy. Proving causation is impossible in this instance, and I'm not even insinuating that I feel there is a causal relationship.

Weren't you questioning my logic? Correlation is not causation.

 

[Natebishop3]

For me, a PG is judged in large part by the success of his team. This doesn't mean he needs to work out in the summer, though. As for Miller's postseason success, I'll point out that Rafer Alston had his best series against Philly. I'm not sure if that means anything, but Alston's team won the series with him going 15/5.

So by that rationale, Chris Paul isn't the best point guard in the league. He probably isn't even the third best point guard in the league, because his team got creamed in the playoffs by the Nuggets.

 

[PapaG]

So by that rationale, Chris Paul isn't the best point guard in the league. He probably isn't even the third best point guard in the league, because his team got creamed in the playoffs by the Nuggets.

Where did Chris Paul come from? "By that rationale"? What rationale. I pointed out a fact pertaining to Miller's postseason success last year. I didn't judge it or 'rationalize' it.

 

[RR7]

You're not insinuating a causation? Then what were you trying to do when mentioning that Miller has never had any team success in the playoffs?

 

[PapaG]

You're not insinuating a causation? Then what were you trying to do when mentioning that Miller has never had any team success in the playoffs?

Pointing out a fact.

 

[Natebishop3]

Where did Chris Paul come from? "By that rationale"? What rationale. I pointed out a fact pertaining to Miller's postseason success last year. I didn't judge it or 'rationalize' it.

"For me, a PG is judged in large part by the success of his team."

 

[PapaG]

"For me, a PG is judged in large part by the success of his team."

Yeah. Miller and Steve Blake have both failed to lead teams to a series win.

 

[RR7]

Pointing out a fact.

And what relevance did the fact have? Other than to tie in his team success, and his offseason approach.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yeah. Miller and Steve Blake have both failed to lead teams to a series win.

And Chris Paul didn't get out of the first round either last season.