Miller signs qualifier

[kreidertime]

Yandle also has a gift for giving the puck away. A lot.

 

[Ranger71]

He does Dump, he needs to definately cut them down, as some were really bad.

 

[kreidertime]

Of course, to be fair, other than Klein, our dumbass defenseman all turned it over a lot. Especially McDonagh who had his head up his ass all season.

 

[chuckd3534]

I agree 31 you don't often hear about trades until they happen, i'm just curious as to what names we'd legitimately look at and could possibly be dealt by current teams. And as for Yandle Chuck, it dosen't matter where he slots on D it's about what he brings that the others can't. He's arguably the most talented blueliner they have as McDonagh has flatlined and just dosen't have those offensive gifts 93 does.

Funny stuff...Yandle is more talented than McD...okay that one isn't even worth a comment.

I know you are a big Yandle guy and wanted him here badly, but it does matter where he slots in on D. That is actually how you build a team in a cap world 71.

Do you pay your 3rd pair LD 5 mill + per on a long term deal?
Do you have ANOTHER dman with a huge cap hit long term?
If you do does that give your team enough balance 71?

So yeah, it does matter. I am a big Yandle fan. I want Yandle here. But I am also smart enough to realize you have to build your team the right way to have balance. And with McD AND G AND Staal all with long term cap hits of 4.7 mill or more, you need to truly think does it make sense to have ANOTHER dman with a 5 mill + cap hit on the team long term? If yes...will you be able to have enough talent upfront?

So forget how you feel about Yandle and look at how the team is setup right now, THAT is how you operate in a cap world, not simply saying I like Yandle let's have another dman with a big cap hit.

Again, never should have resigned Staal. To me that is the one cap mistake we have made. But with him here now I'm not sure it is smart to resign Yandle at 5 mill + per. And this is coming from me who is a big Yandle guy, and in an ideal world would want him here, but with the current makeup of the team and D I am just not sure it is smart cap wise unless we deal Staal OR the cap goes WAY up next year, both of which are unlikely to happen.

 

[vroppelt]

I don't think the mistake was signing Staal after already signing G, but rather giving out the NMC/NTC to all of them. If the cap had gone up last year or this year (or does significantly next year), it was feasible to have them all back there, but to not give yourself any flexibility to move one of them in this cap situation was maybe a little foolish. Easy to say this in hindsight, but probably what they should have done. Its easy to bash the spending on defense, but not sure we would have been watching all this playoff hockey the past four seasons without that group back there.....

 

[chuckd3534]

Without those no movement clauses they would have wanted a higher AAV. You give up some money yearly to sign for a home town discount. That's how it works. Not saying I agree with it, just saying that's the way it is.

And I like the fact that we have a very good D, but I also don't think having a D make as much against the cap as our D does, combined with a goalie who rightfully so has a big cap hit, makes for good balance up front. The forwards have to be paid less on a team with a very highly paid D and goalie counting so much against the cap.

With Yandle here now, 100% we didn't need to resign Staal, but I won't fully hold that against Sather because who knew we'd deal for Yandle. But even without Yandle I am not sure it was the right move given the dmen we have locked up already.

To me simply put you cannot resign Yandle for 5 mill + per if you still have Staal, G, and McD. That is too much tied up in 4 dmen for too long IMO. The rest can all be discussed and debated, but I don't see how it makes any sense cap wise to lock up Yandle for big money if the other guys are here still.

 

[vroppelt]

I guess I agree to disagree on that one Chuck. I think signing Staal was the right move at the time...Back in December the when Staals contract was getting hammered out, cap was projected to be about 73M (Bettmans announcement at the Dec GM meetings said 73M), it came in at 71M. That 2M would make a huge difference right now. Also didn't think there would be comparables for Step to be looking at 7M, if you asked me back in December what Step gets, I would have said something like 5.5M for 5 years. With the 1-1.5M "savings" on Step, as well as about another 2M in cap space, we would be in pretty good shape IMO, maybe even kept Hags or signed that missing forward we all keep talking about.

Moving one of our D now though, I agree on. With the cap at what it is, and maybe staying the same or going down next year, it makes sense to potentially move someone if it wasn't for the dam NTC/NMC's....

 

[chuckd3534]

I don't think it is a slam dunk crystal clear on Staal back in March, but based on how the cap went up last season, based on the Canadian dollar, I think you could tell it wasn't going to be a big jump.

But prior to Yandle I think you could debate it, like I said when it happened I was okay with it, but after looking at everything I think now it was a mistake. I think you could tell the cap was going to be tight based on the factors I mentioned above.

Either way whether you think it was a mistake, don't think it was a mistake, thought it was good in March, or thought it was bad in March, one thing is clear to me...we cannot afford to add another 5 mill + per cap hit dman on top of the dmen we have already.

If we want to keep Yandle we must move Staal IMO. I just don't see how it is smart business to have Yandle AND Staal AND G AND McD all making 4.7 mill or more per long term. Even if we move Klein that would be a lot tied up in D, but we cannot even think about resigning Yandle without moving Staal IMO.

 

[theProdigy223]

This deadline: TOR trades Lupul for J.Staal
Next offseason: TOR gets out of Phaneuf contract, signs E. Staal in free agency
M. Staal waives to go to TOR and we get back JVR BABY

...and then I woke up. But damn that would be sweet.

I still think signing Staal was the right move 100x out of 100...if we didnt then go get Yandle. Glen said Yandle had been on our radar for awhile...he should have scratched the itch or moved on before deciding on Staal. The only way we can get out of Staal's deal now (which might have to happen if we want Yandle to stay) is to get him to waive, and if we want him to waive we need a place he'd like to go. Maybe TOR (closer to home, hockey capital) will be tempting if all the bros are there. I cant see him waiving to go to Carolina, he could have just walked this offseason if he wanted to be there.

 

[Ranger71]

If Carolina improves it's roster by next summer maybe he'd waive to go there. Big if but they may have ample cap space. Even if Staal stays i think signing Yandle is feasible if it's not much over 5m. Skjei will be less than 1m and maybe one of DMc/Graves/Bodie/cheap FA is the spare. It would probably require moving Klein after this season but should be fairly easy.
The fairly young and cheap roster of forwards also will help keep it close to cap, as Buch and maybe a guy like Tambellini enter the mix in 2016.

 

[chuckd3534]

The only way we can get out of Staal's deal now (which might have to happen if we want Yandle to stay)

I just don't see how there is even a 1% chance we can resign Yandle if G, Staal, and McD are all still here Prod. To me there is just no way to have a balanced team with those 4 on D AND Hank with an 8.5 mill cap hit. Unless you tell me Yandle is taking 3 mill per as a cap hit.

On top of that, is AV going to play two lefty dmen together? If you resign Yandle with Staal still here that has to be your top 4 IMO, or you have to be okay with playing a pretty cheap guy on the 2nd pair, and Klein would need to be moved for a cheap 3rd pair dman.

To me it all goes together. You say resigning Staal was the right move 100 out of 100 times, well Sather is the guy who resigned Staal and then still went on to add Yandle. That is poor cap management, and screams of we are going all in to win a cup in 2015, even if the deal would make zero sense for us in 15-16 and beyond.

So no matter how you spin it and how you want to place the blame, resigning Staal or adding Yandle when we had Staal and G and McD locked up, it falls on Sather. Now we are in a tough spot I think. I happen to think we'll keep Yandle and see how this season goes, I almost feel like we have to after giving up what we did, but what happens at the trade DL when Yandle doesn't have a new deal and can walk next summer? Do we say F it and go for it future be damned?

I really think we are in such a tough spot now...and the worst move would be resigning Yandle while keep Staal, because then no shot we can have a balanced team IMO.

 

[chuckd3534]

And with all due respect I don't think you understand the cap 71. Unless there is this HUGE jump in the cap, which is very unlikely after needing the players to okay their 5% escalator to get any jump this season OR Yandle takes a HUGE discount, like in the 3's AAV wise, it would be a HUGE mistake to add another big ticket dman.

Again, I know you love Yandle, I respect that, but you cannot have an 8.5 mill goalie, and 4 dmen making 4.7 mill or more per, especially when none are real stars outside of McD.

That is a recipe for big trouble IMO, and not the way to build a team in a very tight cap league. As is we are # 5 in money spent on D and # 26 in money spent of forwards. To bump Yandle over 5 mill would keep us right up there even with Boyle coming off. Big mistake if we cannot move Staal. I just don't see how we can have a balanced roster if we do that.

 

[strudwickisthebest]

Yandle will be commanding 7+ mil next year... I think they should keep him this year and maybe look to trade his rights.. With his 2.6mil salary it isn't enough to fit a top 6 player.

 

[chuckd3534]

If a team gives Yandle a 7 mill per cap hit they are crazy. I don't see that, but I do see an AAV in the mid 5's +/- for sure. Too much with Staal here I think. Move Staal and I am all in on keeping Yandle, and I rather have Yandle than Staal, but not sure how we can get that done now.

 

[TJMS]

I think Yandle might accept 6.0 mil/yr for 6 years. Can the Rangers do that? It all depends. If the cap were to shoot up to 76 mill for 2016-17, it's do-able. We'd still be able to pay Hayes 3.0 mil & Kreider 4.5 mil during 2016-17, but after that 2016-17 season there could be trouble squeezing everyone in. Who knows what Miller and Etem will require? Also by then, Lindberg and Fast will also be on the final years of their Bridge contracts. Gorton may look for a way to continue to bridge some 3rd and 4th liners along for a year or two until Nash's contract expires. Once Nash's contract expires, there will be a lot of cap relief. It would take some incredible asset management (and wishful thinking with the Salary Cap) to survive the next 3 years with nearly all of the team remaining intact and Yandle still with us, but it could be done.

At the end of the day, our moves will be dictated not only by available Cap Space, but by performance. Both of those categories are unknowns at this point.

 

[strudwickisthebest]

He has great offensive numbers... Not worth that much after we saw his true colors but we'll see what kind of the season he has

 

[Ranger71]

Saw his 'true colors'? Yeah he sure was awful being their best dman for most of the playoffs. Good one Struds.

 

[chuckd3534]

He wasn't their best dman for most of the playoffs. He was their best dman in the TB series, that I agree with. He struggled big time against the Caps and was whatever against the Pens. You love your guys 71...and hate the ones you hate....

I see no shot the cap goes up 5 mill next year after needing the players to okay their 5% bump to go up 3 mill this season. Anything is possible though. The decision on Yandle will need to be made way before we know next seasons cap IMO. I don't see us waiting until late June/July to resign him and take the chance he walks for nothing, but I could be wrong on that one.

As for cap space, here is where I disagree with you guys. It isn't simply do we have enough space to afford Yandle, I think with Boyle coming off and the cap going up 2/3 mill or so we will have the actual space, to me the question becomes is it smart business? And that is where I just don't see it. To have all these big ticket dmen is not smart cap management whether we can fit it under the cap or not. Yandle will get in the 5's/6 mill per, and that is too much given the guys we already have. That money would be much better spent upfront IMO. Move Staal and I am all over bringing back Yandle though.

 

[strudwickisthebest]

again 71 u missed the point. He's a turnover machine, looked tentative out there ... He put up good offensive numbers against TB because their D and goalie were horrible at times

 

[theProdigy223]

Really unfair to call Yandle a turnover machine. All offensive defenseman are "turnover machines" when compared to other defenseman. They arent looking to just chip the puck out like Girardi and Staal and call it a day. They hold the puck and look to drive offense. More turnovers are going to happen if you have the puck more.

I've already posted the numbers. Yandle was 111th in the league in turnovers last year. You know who was ahead of him? Guys like Karlsson, Subban, John Carlson, Dennis Wideman, Brent Burns. Drew Doughty was just a single turnover behind. Are you telling me if we had Drew Doughty would we all be crying that he's a turnover machine? Yandle brings offense from the back end that this team has been looking for since Leetch left and all we want to do is complain about his turnovers. I for one am very thankful that we dont have another Girardi Staal clone that is sound defensively but looks like a deer in the headlights when asked to contribute on offense.

 

[kreidertime]

Stats, smats. I watched him. He turns the puck over a ton.

 

[strudwickisthebest]

Just saying what I saw, he made a lot of turnovers and wasn't trusted by AV in the 3rd period of the Washington series

 

[Ranger71]

You want turnover machines look no further than our big stud from Minneapolis, or Staal who looked a rooster on rt 80 at rush hr.lol

 

[chuckd3534]

I'm with you Prod. I don't call him a TO machine. I actually think Yandle is a good asset to have, and would love him here over Staal if given the choice. But I also understand the cap situation and don't think we should add another big ticket dman. Yandle has his value, but it is not as our 4th dman with an AAV of 4.7 or more, that is too much.

Move Staal or we should not resign Yandle. That's my opinion.

 

[theProdigy223]

I know he made a lot of turnovers. I'm saying that it's inevitable when you play his style so I dont know why we keep pointing it out. If you dont want a guy who is a higher risk of turning the puck over, then you by definition you dont want an offensive defenseman. You want another Staal who will get it and just get rid of it the second it touches his stick.

When we say he turns the puck over a lot, who are we comparing it to? Our guys? Yes, he turns the puck over more than the rest of our D. League wide, he turns the puck over the same amount as other guys who play his style.

 

[kreidertime]

As I said before. Our defense other than Klein sucked last year IMO. They all turned it over a lot. McDonagh was the worst.

 

[strudwickisthebest]

Klein wasn't the same after the injury....his offense was great to start the season

 

[TJMS]

Yandle did have a shoulder injury throughout the playoffs. It occurred early in the Playoffs if anyone will recall...behind our own net against the Penguins. Yandle's shoulder was definitely crunched into the boards and this was verified by the Rangers after we exited the Playoffs. This was undoubtedly the reason for some of the timid play we saw from him in his own zone, especially against a very large, bruising team like the Capitals. Not saying Yandle is normally a beast in the D-zone, but the injury did not help.

 

[BigDaddyAl1973]

id take Yandle over Staal for this team. Staal is a luxury under the cap we can not afford to have.