Minnesota: full of shit (confirmed)

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Chuck Taylor

Chuck Taylor

BATUUUM SHAKKA LAKKA!
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Over 2.5 hours into free agency and no offer sheet has been reported regarding Batum. He tweeted an unrelated photo a half hour ago, so it's not like he's sleeping or busy. If Dwill can sign his huge contract on an iPad, so can Batum. I can't think of any reason why he wouldn't have already signed his 45 million dollar offer sheet with Minnesota....except that it doesn't really exist.

If this is the case, Olshey has called Kahn's bluff by resisting a sign and trade. Hopefully we will either get to sign Batum ourselves for a reasonable rate, or match a more reasonable offer from Minnesota. Then again nothing would surprise me...but it sure seems like the longer we go without a huge official offer from Minnesota, the better.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Minnesota has to waive some players in order to sign him. They are probably waiting to see if they can get a S&T agreed to.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

No need to rush into it. I'm sure they're negotitstitifnfnijf with Portland.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Zybot said:
Minnesota has to waive some players in order to sign him. They are probably waiting to see if they can get a S&T agreed to.
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Seems likely.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Zybot said:
Minnesota has to waive some players in order to sign him. They are probably waiting to see if they can get a S&T agreed to.
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True, but there's no reason why they couldn't waive them immediately and have Batum sign the offer sheet. The minute the clock struck 12 EST, the Blazers gained leverage. Now that Minnesota can make their offer, every minute that goes by that they don't makes it look more and more like B.S. If the Blazers didn't let Minnesota's threat of a big offer (which occurred before they were able to actually make one) scare them into a S&T, then they aren't likely to let the lack of a real offer (when they actually are able to make one) sway them into a S&T.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

I don't think there will be serious sign & trade talks because Olshey overvalues Batum and will require too much.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Chuck Taylor said:
True, but there's no reason why they couldn't waive them immediately and have Batum sign the offer sheet. The minute the clock struck 12 EST, the Blazers gained leverage. Now that Minnesota can make their offer, every minute that goes by that they don't makes it look more and more like B.S. If the Blazers didn't let Minnesota's threat of a big offer (which occurred before they were able to actually make one) scare them into a S&T, then they aren't likely to let the lack of a real offer (when they actually are able to make one) sway them into a S&T.
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There's no hurry for them to waive players. They can do it literally the minute before Batum signs an offer
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Nikolokolus said:
There's no hurry for them to waive players. They can do it literally the minute before Batum signs an offer
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Right. Which is why waiving players is not an excuse for them to have not already signed Batum to his offer sheet.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Actually it is....

Once Batum signs the offer sheet then POR can no longer work a S&T arrangement, they either let him walk for nothing or match the contract.....

Given that Batum wants to go to MIN, and MIN would have to waive 2-3 players AND amnesty Darko...they would prefer to work a S&T...

But there has to be a cost extracted for that convenience by POR....just what that is though is what is causing the delay....I doubt POR wants him at $11.5 mil\year....

So MIN is hedging b\c they don't want to waive\amnesty players and then have POR match...

POR is hedging b\c they probably do not want Batum at $11.5 mil\year as it would eat up most of thier cap space (and it is a overpay) and wouldn't signifcantly improve the team's record next year

SO it is in both team's best interest to work a deal....If MIN\Kahn really want Batum that bad, and they must b\c they put out the full court press for him, and they don't want to call POR bluff...then they are going to have to give away something of interest to POR....

I suspect that would be D.Williams and both (MIN & MEM) 1st round picks....
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Blaze01 said:
Actually it is....

Once Batum signs the offer sheet then POR can no longer work a S&T arrangement, they either let him walk for nothing or match the contract.....

Given that Batum wants to go to MIN, and MIN would have to waive 2-3 players AND amnesty Darko...they would prefer to work a S&T...

But there has to be a cost extracted for that convenience by POR....just what that is though is what is causing the delay....I doubt POR wants him at $11.5 mil\year....

So MIN is hedging b\c they don't want to waive\amnesty players and then have POR match...

POR is hedging b\c they probably do not want Batum at $11.5 mil\year as it would eat up most of thier cap space (and it is a overpay) and wouldn't signifcantly improve the team's record next year

SO it is in both team's best interest to work a deal....If MIN\Kahn really want Batum that bad, and they must b\c they put out the full court press for him, and they don't want to call POR bluff...then they are going to have to give away something of interest to POR....

I suspect that would be D.Williams and both (MIN & MEM) 1st round picks....
Click to expand...

Why would Portland be hedging because they don't want to pay Batum 11.5 mil a year when that hasn't been offered? That's the thing, now that Minnesota can officially offer him that, and haven't, Portland is gaining leverage.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

So what happens if they sign offer sheet and we don't match? They'd have no cap room left but already agreed to give BRoy 5 million and sign the Russian guard. Never heard of a team agreeing to free agent deals clearly beyond their cap room before.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Well MIN could call POR bluff and waive those players, amnesty Darko and sign Batum at a contract starting at $11-$11.5 mil\year.....

Once that is done then POR either takes Batum and at that cost or let's him walk for nothing....

So either they take him and basically eat up most of thier cap space in the process or they let him go and get nothing in return which would be completely unacceptable....

That is likely why they are talking right now, working on compensation...especially since now Batum has come out and stated he wants to go to MIN....MIN either has to 1) offer up something of interest\value to POR; 2) Call POR bluff and sign him to an offer sheet or 3) walk away w\o offering, in which case Batum probably plays for the 1 year QFO to become a UFA next year b\c I doubt if that happened POR would offer $11mil to him

I think MIN has until next week sometime to use thier amnesty, so they don't have to make a decision immediately...
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Draco said:
So what happens if they sign offer sheet and we don't match? They'd have no cap room left but already agreed to give BRoy 5 million and sign the Russian guard. Never heard of a team agreeing to free agent deals clearly beyond their cap room before.
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I don't think they can offer Batum the contract without clearing the cap space first.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Blaze01 said:
Well MIN could call POR bluff and waive those players, amnesty Darko and sign Batum at a contract starting at $11-$11.5 mil\year.....

Once that is done then POR either takes Batum and at that cost or let's him walk for nothing....

So either they take him and basically eat up most of thier cap space in the process or they let him go and get nothing in return which would be completely unacceptable....

That is likely why they are talking right now, working on compensation...especially since now Batum has come out and stated he wants to go to MIN....MIN either has to 1) offer up something of interest\value to POR; 2) Call POR bluff and sign him to an offer sheet or 3) walk away w\o offering, in which case Batum probably plays for the 1 year QFO to become a UFA next year b\c I doubt if that happened POR would offer $11mil to him

I think MIN has until next week sometime to use thier amnesty, so they don't have to make a decision immediately...
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Minnesota could call Portland's bluff and offer Batum the contract, but as of now, they haven't. If they were planning on doing so, why wouldn't they have done it by now? This increases the likelihood that it was b.s. from the beginning, and increases the likelihood that Portland either: signs Batum ourselves for a reasonable amount, matches a more reasonable offer then Minnesota was threatening, or gets more in a S&T because Minnesota has lost leverage. Either way, it's looking like worst case scenario (having to decide whether to match a 45M offer) is less likely.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Draco said:
So what happens if they sign offer sheet and we don't match? They'd have no cap room left but already agreed to give BRoy 5 million and sign the Russian guard. Never heard of a team agreeing to free agent deals clearly beyond their cap room before.
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To do that they would have to waive some players...it is speculated that would be Webster, Miller and then use amnesty on Darko....Maybe another player may need to be moved\waived as well..

So nobody super significant...

I suspect if you see MIN make any moves on these guys (waive\amnesty\etc) then you can suspect that S&T may have fallen thru and they are going to try and sign him outright....

The real intrigue will be if S&T negotiations break down and they don't offer to Baum....What then? How much does POR offer? Does he take it or take the 1 year QFO, which would be his only remaining leverage if he truly wants out?
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Chuck Taylor said:
Minnesota could call Portland's bluff and offer Batum the contract, but as of now, they haven't. If they were planning on doing so, why wouldn't they have done it by now? This increases the likelihood that it was b.s. from the beginning, and increases the likelihood that Portland either: signs Batum ourselves for a reasonable amount, matches a more reasonable offer then Minnesota was threatening, or gets more in a S&T because Minnesota has lost leverage. Either way, it's looking like worst case scenario (having to decide whether to match a 45M offer) is less likely.
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A few days from now, maybe...but 3+ hours into free agency? I don't think so....

MIN can easily gain leverage by renouncing those players to get the required cap space and then sign him to an offer sheet....But again, once that is doen all negotiation b\t POR & MIN is over...either POR matches or let's him walk...and I doubt they match if MIN positions to offer a 4\45 b\c it would bascially lock POR in near the salary cap, and they have a lot of signifcant holes to fill....
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Blaze01 said:
A few days from now, maybe...but 3+ hours into free agency? I don't think so....

MIN can easily gain leverage by renouncing those players to get the required cap space and then sign him to an offer sheet....But again, once that is doen all negotiation b\t POR & MIN is over...either POR matches or let's him walk...and I doubt they match if MIN positions to offer a 4\45 b\c it would bascially lock POR in near the salary cap, and they have a lot of signifcant holes to fill....
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You're right - as soon as Minnesota gets Batum to sign the big offer sheet, all potential S&T's are off. So they gain absolutely no leverage. They either get him or they don't. Maybe 4 hours into free agency is too soon to think the tides are turning, but the longer we go with no offer sheet, the better it is for Portland.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

I think you guys missed my point. Even if Minnesota cuts Miller, Webster, Darko they won't have the cap room for Batum and Roy and Russian. They've supposedly agreed to terms with all three players. If we let them sign Batum then how do they make good on BRoy $10 million agreement? It would be like the Knicks agreeing to give OJ Mayo a $35 million deal, its totally impossible with the players salaries currently on the Knicks roster.

Maybe this Batum "agreement" was BS the entire time.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Perhaps both Portland and Minny (together) are looking to get in on the Brooklyn and Orlando deal?

Perhaps Portland winds up with Humphries and Memphis pick (owned by Minny)?

Lopez and Minny's pick plus Minny's D.Williams and Nets' D. Stevens to Orlando

Batum to Minny

Howard to Brooklyn
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

BoomChakaLaka said:
Perhaps both Portland and Minny (together) are looking to get in on the Brooklyn and Orlando deal?

Perhaps Portland winds up with Humphries and Memphis pick (owned by Minny)?

Lopez and Minny's pick plus Minny's D.Williams and Nets' D. Stevens to Orlando

Batum to Minny

Howard to Brooklyn
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You come up with the craziest shit
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Chuck Taylor said:
True, but there's no reason why they couldn't waive them immediately and have Batum sign the offer sheet. The minute the clock struck 12 EST, the Blazers gained leverage. Now that Minnesota can make their offer, every minute that goes by that they don't makes it look more and more like B.S. If the Blazers didn't let Minnesota's threat of a big offer (which occurred before they were able to actually make one) scare them into a S&T, then they aren't likely to let the lack of a real offer (when they actually are able to make one) sway them into a S&T.
Click to expand...
48 hour waiver period
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

I see where CT is coming from. If Minny wanted to force Blazers hand they offer and have Batum sign as soon as possible. With Hibbard off the table, matching would kill Blazers cap situation meaning less likely to match. In fact consensus here (which often follows suit) is Blazers don't match.

Either Blazers and Minny are in serious S&T mode, or Minny is backing down some.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

I have a question in to Coon right now about the actual timing of when waived salaries come off the books--if it's immediately, when claimed, after 7 days, etc.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Treaty_of_Batum said:
I see where CT is coming from. If Minny wanted to force Blazers hand they offer and have Batum sign as soon as possible. With Hibbard off the table, matching would kill Blazers cap situation meaning less likely to match. In fact consensus here (which often follows suit) is Blazers don't match.

Either Blazers and Minny are in serious S&T mode, or Minny is backing down some.
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I don't think it's that complicated. MIN doesn't want to use up their amnesty (even if they didn't care about keeping Darko) for nothing. Right now, Webster and Miller still have trade value as people who can immediately slice 10M or so in salary off a team's cap. MIN doesn't want to lose those assets on the chance the Blazers match and they end up with no Batum, no Darko, no more amnesty, no ability to trade Webster/Miller...

Since MIN can't read Olshey right now (or they can, and they know they'll get matched), then it makes sense for them to not offer and see what we'll accept in an S&T.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Treaty_of_Batum said:
I see where CT is coming from. If Minny wanted to force Blazers hand they offer and have Batum sign as soon as possible. With Hibbard off the table, matching would kill Blazers cap situation meaning less likely to match. In fact consensus here (which often follows suit) is Blazers don't match.

Either Blazers and Minny are in serious S&T mode, or Minny is backing down some.
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why does signing Nic kill out cap situation? Batum's cap hold was like 5.5 mil, we had cap room of 16 mil or so, therefore even if he signed for 11 mil per and we match we'd still have over 10 mil in capspace, so what the heck?
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Blazinaway said:
why does signing Nic kill out cap situation? Batum's cap hold was like 5.5 mil, we had cap room of 16 mil or so, therefore even if he signed for 11 mil per and we match we'd still have over 10 mil in capspace, so what the heck?
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But no longer can offer a max, right?
 
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