Minny gets Sessions on the cheap..

[Tince]

yep, perfectly parallel comparison to point to. KP really had a lot invested in seeing Raef playing. It's not like he was viewed as a dead weight contract in the trade that brought him in and now was an embarrassing example of his ineptitude that the press could pick at.[/sarcasm]

sorry that I tried to add some context.

STOMP

I understand it wasn't the perfect comparison and I guess I'm over-sensitive to the payroll argument. I could spend the time to site a better example of a high-paid player being a backup to a lower-paid player, but I don't think it would make much of a difference.

Skiles doesn't strike me as the type of coach that uses salaries to determine his depth chart. In fact, any coach who gives out playing time or starting jobs based on the payroll will likely be looking for a different job.

As bad as my comparison was, I would say the idea that Ridnour is starting because the Bucks have invested so much in him is equally as silly.

Either way, I'm glad our PG situation wasn't that bad last year!

 

[Tince]

Sounds a lot like Andre Miller to me.

Subtract Miller's strength, post-up ability, and track record in the league, I would agree with you that they have similarities.

 

[STOMP]

I understand it wasn't the perfect comparison and I guess I'm over-sensitive to the payroll argument. I could spend the time to site a better example of a high-paid player being a backup to a lower-paid player, but I don't think it would make much of a difference.

Skiles doesn't strike me as the type of coach that uses salaries to determine his depth chart. In fact, any coach who gives out playing time or starting jobs based on the payroll will likely be looking for a different job.

As bad as my comparison was, I would say the idea that Ridnour is starting because the Bucks have invested so much in him is equally as silly.

Either way, I'm glad our PG situation wasn't that bad last year!

by mentioning KP, I was indicating the GM as the guy who might meddle in such matters. Skile's job is to win games, but as far as I'm aware he also has to answer to John Hammond who would have a vested interest in seeing the guy he traded starter Mo Williams for not rot on the bench behind a guy he probably knew a while back that they weren't going to retain. The Bucks don't have a Paul Allen type owner bankrolling them and the lux tax was clearly looming over their 2009-10 roster well back into last season... Hammond has to answer to the owner and bottom line.

This is just my speculation of what might have affected the PT/roles of Luke and Ramon last year. I'm not saying it definitely did, but it's a reasonable possibility and hardly silly.

STOMP

 

[PapaG]

by mentioning KP, I was indicating the GM as the guy who might meddle in such matters. Skile's job is to win games, but as far as I'm aware he also has to answer to John Hammond who would have a vested interest in seeing the guy he traded starter Mo Williams for not rot on the bench behind a guy he probably knew a while back that they weren't going to retain. The Bucks don't have a Paul Allen type owner bankrolling them and the lux tax was clearly looming over their 2009-10 roster well back into last season... Hammond has to answer to the owner and bottom line.

This is just my speculation of what might have affected the PT/roles of Luke and Ramon last year. I'm not saying it definitely did, but it's a reasonable possibility and hardly silly.

STOMP

The Bucks could have signed up Sessions for 4 years on for very cheap on the Minny offer. Ridnour's contract expires next year. Perhaps the Bucks tired of Sessions poor shooting, bad defense, and dominating the ball?

 

[rocketeer]

The Bucks could have signed up Sessions for 4 years on for very cheap on the Minny offer. Ridnour's contract expires next year. Perhaps the Bucks tired of Sessions poor shooting, bad defense, and dominating the ball?

it would have put them over the luxury tax. and they drafted jennings to be their pg of the future.

 

[PapaG]

it would have put them over the luxury tax. and they drafted jennings to be their pg of the future.

The T-Wolves drafted Rubio/Flynn to be their PG of the future, and with their young talent, they will be over the tax without a move within three years.

Let's just all admit they overpaid for Sessions, who Milwaukee didn't even see worth extending on a relatively cheap contract for a supposed good PG.

 

[rocketeer]

The T-Wolves drafted Rubio/Flynn to be their PG of the future, and with their young talent, they will be over the tax without a move within three years.

Let's just all admit they overpaid for Sessions, who Milwaukee didn't even see worth extending on a relatively cheap contract for a supposed good PG.

milwaukee would have gone over the luxury tax now had they resigned him. saying that the twolves might go over the tax in a few years is not at all the same.

 

[Tince]

by mentioning KP, I was indicating the GM as the guy who might meddle in such matters. Skile's job is to win games, but as far as I'm aware he also has to answer to John Hammond who would have a vested interest in seeing the guy he traded starter Mo Williams for not rot on the bench behind a guy he probably knew a while back that they weren't going to retain. The Bucks don't have a Paul Allen type owner bankrolling them and the lux tax was clearly looming over their 2009-10 roster well back into last season... Hammond has to answer to the owner and bottom line.

This is just my speculation of what might have affected the PT/roles of Luke and Ramon last year. I'm not saying it definitely did, but it's a reasonable possibility and hardly silly.

STOMP

And my speculation is that his value in the league as a player is similar to the contract he got. Bottom half.

 

[STOMP]

The Bucks could have signed up Sessions for 4 years on for very cheap on the Minny offer. Ridnour's contract expires next year.

they are about two Mil under the lux cap, so no...

Perhaps the Bucks tired of Sessions poor shooting, bad defense, and dominating the ball?

are you aware that your record has a skip? Are you trying to be obnoxious?

STOMP

 

[PapaG]

milwaukee would have gone over the luxury tax now had they resigned him. saying that the twolves might go over the tax in a few years is not at all the same.

Yeah. So clearly he isn't worth the luxury tax. He just isn't that good. Now he's a back-up PG for a very bad team.

 

[PapaG]

are you aware that your record has a skip? Are you trying to be obnoxious?

STOMP

What part of my post is not accurate? Refute my post on Sessions, and I'll be OK with it. An ad hominem attack without addressing the issue? No respect for you.

 

[PapaG]

milwaukee would have gone over the luxury tax now had they resigned him. saying that the twolves might go over the tax in a few years is not at all the same.

If Milwaukee had thought he'd win them games, they would have paid for him. They did not match, and suddenly David Kahn is the brightest GM in the NBA.

 

[STOMP]

What part of my post is not accurate? Refute my post on Sessions, and I'll be OK with it. An ad hominem attack without addressing the issue? No respect for you.

what issue? You're welcome to your opinion, but thats all you've got. Repeating the same crap over and over is obnoxious.

and do you really think I or anyone here gives the smallest shit about gaining your respect?

STOMP

 

[PapaG]

what issue? You're welcome to your opinion, but thats all you've got. Repeating the same crap over and over is obnoxious.

and do you really think I or anyone here gives the smallest shit about gaining your respect?

STOMP

I'm just wondering where I missed on the Sessions debate. He can't shoot, can't defend, and has a very high usage rate. Clearly you know better than I do, so spell it out instead of launching yet another personal attack.

Educate me, STOMP, on how I have missed on Ramon Sessions.

 

[STOMP]

And my speculation is that his value in the league as a player is similar to the contract he got. Bottom half.

do you think this is a good offseason for a FA to be looking for a new contract or maybe not so good?

STOMP

 

[rocketeer]

If Milwaukee had thought he'd win them games, they would have paid for him. They did not match, and suddenly David Kahn is the brightest GM in the NBA.

was milwaukee making the playoffs with sessions? probably not, so why would they pay the luxury tax to keep him? that doesn't mean that he's not good enough to justify the contract he got(or that the team wouldn't win more games with him than without him), it just means that to them he wasn't worth the additional costs of the luxury tax. the cost to the bucks for a $4 mil starting salary for sessions would really be something like $9 mil(4 to sessions, 2 to the league for going over the tax by 2 mil, and another 3 mil on money they wouldn't get from the league in redistributed tax money. the 3 mil number is what was given out this past season).

so no, sessions isn't worth that much, but he definitely is worth the contract he got.

 

[PapaG]

was milwaukee making the playoffs with sessions? probably not, so why would they pay the luxury tax to keep him? that doesn't mean that he's not good enough to justify the contract he got(or that the team wouldn't win more games with him than without him), it just means that to them he wasn't worth the additional costs of the luxury tax. the cost to the bucks for a $4 mil starting salary for sessions would really be something like $9 mil(4 to sessions, 2 to the league for going over the tax by 2 mil, and another 3 mil on money they wouldn't get from the league in redistributed tax money. the 3 mil number is what was given out this past season).

so no, sessions isn't worth that much, but he definitely is worth the contract he got.

Is Minnesota going to make the playoffs with Sessions? I'd say Milwaukee had a better chance than Minnesota does, and paying an extra few million for a difference maker seems like a bargain in the East. A few home playoff games would pay for the tax on Sessions.

 

[STOMP]

Educate me, STOMP, on how I have missed on Ramon Sessions.

why? As it's been demonstrated in umpteen threads before, you refuse to be educated or reasoned with. Half the board either avoids you like the plague or has you on ignore altogether for this very reason.

Can't shoot can't defend? I already heard your opinion umpteen times. You'll doggedly defend Steve Blake to the death yet despite coming off a career year, 7 years in he has a lower career TS% then Ramon in his 2nd, but what does that matter? I could point out that players tend to get better in their early 20's, but seriously why do I bother? I've got plenty more ammo if I gave a crap, but I don't. You don't respect me either? Great. Piss off and annoy someone else.

STOMP

 

[rocketeer]

Is Minnesota going to make the playoffs with Sessions? I'd say Milwaukee had a better chance than Minnesota does, and paying an extra few million for a difference maker seems like a bargain in the East. A few home playoff games would pay for the tax on Sessions.

a slight shot at the playoffs wouldn't be worth having sessions cost the team around $9 mil.

for minnesota, they aren't in the tax and he is well worth the $4 mil or so they are paying him.

 

[PapaG]

why? As it's been demonstrated in umpteen threads before, you refuse to be educated or reasoned with. Half the board either avoids you like the plague or has you on ignore altogether for this very reason.

Can't shoot can't defend? I already heard your opinion umpteen times. You'll doggedly defend Steve Blake to the death yet despite coming off a career year, 7 years in he has a lower career TS% then Ramon in his 2nd, but what does that matter? I could point out that players tend to get better in their early 20's, but seriously why do I bother? I've got plenty more ammo if I gave a crap, but I don't. You don't respect me either? Great. Piss off and annoy someone else.

STOMP

Again, nothing from you other than misrepresenting my opinion on Steve Blake and launching yet another personal attack. You aren't very good at this, are you? Sessions is a very average player, and the market for him agrees with me.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I think Sessions got lucky and found a team that needed him as bad as he needed a team.

The Bucks, from the draft on, never seemed interested in keeping Sessions. Several teams showed some interest in Sessions but never made an offer. Obviously Sessions couldn't get a better deal from any other team in the NBA (I don't think he picked Minny because of his chance to win a ring). I wonder if Sessions knew just how much an impact the Rubio saga would have on his salary in the NBA?

 

[PapaG]

I think Sessions got lucky and found a team that needed him as bad as he needed a team.

The Bucks, from the draft on, never seemed interested in keeping Sessions. Several teams showed some interest in Sessions but never made an offer. Obviously Sessions couldn't get a better deal from any other team in the NBA (I don't think he picked Minny because of his chance to win a ring). I wonder if Sessions knew just how much an impact the Rubio saga would have on his salary in the NBA?

That's a fair point. One could even say that Rubio staying in Spain actually gave Sessions a better offer then he would have received had Rubio played in the NBA this year. There is no way Minnesota would have offered him in the latter scenario, and Sessions would likely still be without a new contract.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

That's a fair point. One could even say that Rubio staying in Spain actually gave Sessions a better offer then he would have received had Rubio played in the NBA this year. There is no way Minnesota would have offered him in the latter scenario, and Sessions would likely still be without a new contract.

That's what I was getting at (apparently not very clearly ). Without Minny, Session doesn't find another team willing to make that offer. He either accepts less money or goes for the one year contract to test out the market next year. Rubio staying in Euro was the best thing to happen to Sessions.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I don't know that Sessions would have been the savior of our (or any other team), but looking at the realm of contracts given after rookie contracts expire, is 4/16M (25% below the MLE) for a 23 y/o PG (who, BTW, is already playing at a PER level above the average NBA starter) that much out of the realm of possibility? PG's a pretty tough position. Our team is paying Webster and Outlaw and Blake around that amount. As it is, there's a chance that none of those 3 start; Webster and Outlaw are around Sessions' age; well below his PER output; at a position that's not super-difficult to fill, imho. For a potential long-term starter at PG who's already shown that he can play at a pretty high level in the league, I don't think it's egregiously bad.

Perhaps it's overpaying this year for a guy you're not sure is going to start over Jonny Flynn, but I'd love for the Blazers to be paying Sessions in 2010-2013 4M a year.

 

[Idog1976]

I don't know that Sessions would have been the savior of our (or any other team), but looking at the realm of contracts given after rookie contracts expire, is 4/16M (25% below the MLE) for a 23 y/o PG (who, BTW, is already playing at a PER level above the average NBA starter) that much out of the realm of possibility? PG's a pretty tough position. Our team is paying Webster and Outlaw and Blake around that amount. As it is, there's a chance that none of those 3 start; Webster and Outlaw are around Sessions' age; well below his PER output; at a position that's not super-difficult to fill, imho. For a potential long-term starter at PG who's already shown that he can play at a pretty high level in the league, I don't think it's egregiously bad.

Perhaps it's overpaying this year for a guy you're not sure is going to start over Jonny Flynn, but I'd love for the Blazers to be paying Sessions in 2010-2013 4M a year.

Yes, this is exactly my feeling on the matter. There simply has to be something we don't know about him. Andre can post up and has had a great career but to pay almost twice as much for him? I like Andre and am happy with the pick up, but I would have definitely liked to see us sew up the PG spot for the future or at least audition another young talent. Maybe Bayless will be that guy, I'd rather have had a fall back plan if Rex isn't up to the job.

 

[STOMP]

Yes, this is exactly my feeling on the matter. There simply has to be something we don't know about him. Andre can post up and has had a great career but to pay almost twice as much for him? I like Andre and am happy with the pick up, but I would have definitely liked to see us sew up the PG spot for the future or at least audition another young talent. Maybe Bayless will be that guy, I'd rather have had a fall back plan if Rex isn't up to the job.

my fall back dream is TParker. In a couple years he and the Spurs will probably be parting and I'd like to think Paul's deep pockets and the Blazer's other various assets will land him in the NW. I know his deal is up after this season, but again this is my dream.

In the meantime I'm going to enjoy the present.

STOMP

 

[The_Lillard_King]

my fall back dream is TParker. In a couple years he and the Spurs will probably be parting and I'd like to think Paul's deep pockets and the Blazer's other various assets will land him in the NW. I know his deal is up after this season, but again this is my dream.

In the meantime I'm going to enjoy the present.

STOMP

You (in SF) dream about Tony Parker, I (in Ptd)dream about his wife.

It's a small world.

 

[STOMP]

You (in SF) dream about Tony Parker, I (in Ptd)dream about his wife.

It's a small world.

STOMP