MLB STRIKES NEW LABOR DEAL

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let's play ball..... shit, winter's not even began, hardly...
 
Looks like the ASG will no longer be linked to home field advantage in the World Series. The best record will determine that under this new agreement.
 
Messiah717 said:
Looks like the ASG will no longer be linked to home field advantage in the World Series. The best record will determine that under this new agreement.
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Yup, as it should be...also like some of the changes in the Lux Tax and draft pick compensation.
 
hGH biomarker screening. finally drug testing that is linked to real science and not ambiguous metabolite-based blood tests.
 
...fwiw, I get your point but I don't really find the current blood test-based system to be "ambiguous"... I mean can you think of one athlete who was fingered that later was found to be innocent?...I can't...just sayin'.
 
yankeesince59 said:
...fwiw, I get your point but I don't really find the current blood test-based system to be "ambiguous"... I mean can you think of one athlete who was fingered that later was found to be innocent?...I can't...just sayin'.
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the issue, in this case specifically - but also generally, has to do with the "formulae" which determines a positive test and therefore innocence or guilt. Ambiguous is an adequate term because there are no direct measurables, these assays are measuring compounds or proteins in blood that are not exclusively linked to the drug in question. It's one thing to measure a direct metabolite if one can show that metabolite only exists in nature due to that illegal drug. The problem is that these WADA tests make a ton of assumptions.

If you read that PDF, you'll see they are using biomarker tests designed for other medical diagnostic purposes, I know these vendors and their products. Then in order to use these for international drug testing, the regimes and "standardizations" they used come from control samples from Europe and Australia alone. I'm sorry but the US food market is drastically different, one body chemistries are also different (only need to look at US vs EU clinical trail data).

My point here Ron is that I'm all for using good science to police sports and ensure a level playing field. But this has become a huge money making business and accuracy and thoroughness are paying the price at the expense of profit margins. There are ways to directly measure illicit drug use, but these assays take time to develop and essentially have to follow similar clinical processes as getting drugs on the market. Do you know how many people each year get false positive clinical results and end up having their lives turned upside down thinking they had some horrible disease? And those are with properly vetted tests. These WADA drug tests get fast tracked and we never get a full accounting of how "successful" they are. There are a lot of results that get scrapped that aren't being reported.

I have personal knowledge of one particular test WADA wanted to have commercialized that the professor and university turned down despite the promise of millions in royalties because they felt what was being proposed was not scientifically or medically ethical.

There are in fact better ways to directly measure the effect of supplemented hGH, but you would need to specifically develop a dB of test points for each athlete to eliminate specific false positives. This would include various states of recovery from documented injuries, etc. This is why its easier to detect schedule A drugs because their signatures are unambiguous. But as soon as we cross into natural materials (including steroids), the science is much more complex.
 
...yeah, I get all that...but again has there been anyone who was fingered by the current system that was later found to be "clean"?
 
totus44 said:
the issue, in this case specifically - but also generally, has to do with the "formulae" which determines a positive test and therefore innocence or guilt. Ambiguous is an adequate term because there are no direct measurables, these assays are measuring compounds or proteins in blood that are not exclusively linked to the drug in question. It's one thing to measure a direct metabolite if one can show that metabolite only exists in nature due to that illegal drug. The problem is that these WADA tests make a ton of assumptions.

If you read that PDF, you'll see they are using biomarker tests designed for other medical diagnostic purposes, I know these vendors and their products. Then in order to use these for international drug testing, the regimes and "standardizations" they used come from control samples from Europe and Australia alone. I'm sorry but the US food market is drastically different, one body chemistries are also different (only need to look at US vs EU clinical trail data).

My point here Ron is that I'm all for using good science to police sports and ensure a level playing field. But this has become a huge money making business and accuracy and thoroughness are paying the price at the expense of profit margins. There are ways to directly measure illicit drug use, but these assays take time to develop and essentially have to follow similar clinical processes as getting drugs on the market. Do you know how many people each year get false positive clinical results and end up having their lives turned upside down thinking they had some horrible disease? And those are with properly vetted tests. These WADA drug tests get fast tracked and we never get a full accounting of how "successful" they are. There are a lot of results that get scrapped that aren't being reported.

I have personal knowledge of one particular test WADA wanted to have commercialized that the professor and university turned down despite the promise of millions in royalties because they felt what was being proposed was not scientifically or medically ethical.

There are in fact better ways to directly measure the effect of supplemented hGH, but you would need to specifically develop a dB of test points for each athlete to eliminate specific false positives. This would include various states of recovery from documented injuries, etc. This is why its easier to detect schedule A drugs because their signatures are unambiguous. But as soon as we cross into natural materials (including steroids), the science is much more complex.
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^^^ incredible Tom, great work and post....!
 
yankeesince59 said:
...yeah, I get all that...but again has there been anyone who was fingered by the current system that was later found to be "clean"?
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Good Q, I can't answer this, other than I really do not know, of any....
 
Lillie said:
I'm convinced that Tom is a Rocket Scientist. :rotfl:
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Tom is a Black Rock Veteran Alumni, aka- The "Verrückter Rakete Wissenschaftler"(6*); amongst us....

No doubt, Tote knows his Chemistry, Physics, Sciences, and Rocket's too, seriously. Oh, and Baseball too...

Perhaps He will show you a pic of His Tote BOOH(4*)-Ad Astra (5*) Rocket, which he built himself, and obtains all the necessary clearances, to shoot them to the stars.... Or- into Tijuana and/or the La. Barrio's. When CWII come's I'm heading to Tom's....with a Tanker Semi-Truck of Liquid Nitrogen and Oxygen....and a Freight Train of Munitions, Tanks, APC's, a few FGM-148 Javelin and T34 Calliope's.....

I'd post a pic of Tote holding with one of his Rockets, but not without His permission, (he's on our enemies radar, as a one man anti-terrorist Nuke.....ntm- he traded in His Porsche 918, and His Yugo, for a great Godzilla 4WD Truck, or Desert Rocket Recovery Vehicle...

2ndly- Tom is well prepared for CWII, one of few men, who will be hitting his targets from 200 miles away. He's got a German V2 Scale Rocket (which He built himself); as it's sitting alongside his Garage. Truly The Verrückter Rakete Wissenschaftler....~!~

Imagine driving by his house in one of the nicest areas/parts of the hills of San Diego County, and seeing it, a WWII prototype Rocket, of Hitler's- rather: Wernher Magnus Maximilian Freiherr von Braun's "Blitzkrieg"(1*) of London, "Aggregat- 4"(2*), "Vergeltungswaffen"(3*) aka the V2 Rocket....

http://gizmodo.com/5955348/this-is-...from-spaceand-it-was-taken-from-a-nazi-rocket

(1*) - Blitzkrieg: Lightning War
(2*) - Aggregat: German Designator for the V2
(3*) - Vergeltungswaffen: Retribution Weapons
(4*) - BOOH: Bat Out Of Hell
(5*) - Ad Astra: To the Stars
(6*) - Verrückter Rakete Wissenschaftler: Mad Man Rocket Scientist


Now for 59, I can't go there, all I can tell you is: he's got the East Coast covered,..... ~!~
 
Rob, you are too funny. Maybe Tom can use some Jedi Mind Tricks to get good old Ricky back on the Boards. :biglaugh:
 
Messiah717 said:
New five year deal for 2017-2021. Interesting to see the luxury tax threshold go from $189 million to $195 million.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...union-reach-tentative-deal-new-labor-contract
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Love the riddance of giving up a draft pick compensation for a FA. Under this CBA, Mike Trout would hopefully still be a Yankee...

I like the Intl. salary cap. Between the cap, and Luxury tax threshold, in which a team today with a 280 Million Payroll, bounced for the 2nd-3rd time, yr, would be paying damn near 530 Mil in penalties and salary combined.

I can't see how the Intl. Salary Cap will hurt Pan-Am players at all. They have nothing more to go to, than to play ball in the US.

This will and should reduce long term Asian High Dollar contracts; and probably lessen the influx of players??? I still believe Asian Players will still want to play in the States, with much more International notoriety, ie the greats of Ichiro, Matsui, Dice-K (the piece of shit), Nomo, Irabu (see Dice-K), Darvish, et al.

What what about the Moncada's; Jose Fernandez's, Abreu's of MLB, guess those super-cubanos, latin americans, will have to settle for less. Besides, those "rags to riches story" imo, came undone with the story of the shining, but burned out candle of Jose Fernandez. His story speaks volumes. Don't pay a poor boy, more than He can handle....it's a waste otherwise, eg Puigy also.

Overall b/t both cap and luxury tax, could see the riddance of most long term big dollar contracts....with the exception of a few, eg Kershaw, Trout, Harper, Arenado, Bryant in years to come, when trying to lock down a player for life...

Overall this is a breathe of fresh air, by both Player's, and Owner's; pulling together, for a change in the better, and future of our National Pastime.....Now let's lower Ticket Prices....!
 
yankeesince59 said:
...Totus is the devil...and must be destroyed.
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^^^ I'm beginning to think Tote is a double agent; due to his man crush on Trump and Putin....

heck, anyone who still drives a Yugo, is very loyal to the Eastern European (ex USSR) Bloc....



Tote is the guy in this, who likes the rack and pinion steering and front wheel drive, what a concept for the 80's, I mean 60's...

Here's a couple FBI/KGB reconnaissance photo's taken of Tote driving his Yugo, which he spray paints (with a can**), every week a new color to hide the rust, and keep his identity safe....

** 1 case of 'Rustoleum' spray paint cans, come free with every Yugo purchase...

Isuzu-I-Mark-Diesel.jpg

now this brand new Yugo is a Concept Car, which Tote has the only one in existence, the other Million were junked within 3 yrs of rolling off of the factory sweat shop line...
Yugo-Konzept hovno auto omezen Zvláštní vrcholné (Yugo Concept-shit car limited supreme).
maxresdefault.jpg
 
As for WADA tests, yes there have been reversals. But moreover there have been political deals to suppress the false positives.


Ton of articles as well as peer reviewed scientific journal papers that reveal the issues with anti doping testing.
 
totus44 said:
As for WADA tests, yes there have been reversals. But moreover there have been political deals to suppress the false positives.


Ton of articles as well as peer reviewed scientific journal papers that reveal the issues with anti doping testing.
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...alright, I'll rephrase it, can you name any notable player who's been falsely accused?

...said it over and over, Tote...just as with the current legal system, the current drug testing system may not be perfect but it beats not having one at all.
 
totus44 said:
Hello....death Star avatar
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...Hello, the pilot of the Death Star;


darth_pink1.jpg




...sory Tote, I couldn't resist.
 
yankeesince59 said:
...alright, I'll rephrase it, can you name any notable player who's been falsely accused?

...said it over and over, Tote...just as with the current legal system, the current drug testing system may not be perfect but it beats not having one at all.
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And it's a strawman question, whether intended or not. There can be no reversals because alternative tests either don't exist or are not admissable.

Testing organization is police, judge and jury.

Ron I understand that you want something to hold athletes to account. I agree with you. But I do not agree with inviting a flawed beuracracy like WADA or USADA into professional sports.

I'd prefer pro sports go on their own with testing based on real science and not the sham we currently have.

How can you believe in a system that is more politically motivated rather than caring about the integrity of sport or the health of athletes?
 
..."strawman"?...why, because you said so?...no, actually it's not...it's a very straightforward and simple question. You can either provide examples of a notable MLB player getting wrongly fingered for PEDs, or you can't...simple as that.

...you constantly have condemned the current testing system in lieu of technology that obviously is not quite ready for prime time yet. Do you seriously think that MLB would deny technology that might be better than the system they currently use?...of course not.

...and you keep bringing up WADA as if it's some sort of weapon in this discussion...we're talking about BASEBALL here, and the last time I checked, Baseball has their own system which is not governed by WADA.


...but you accuse me of being the one who's building a "strawman" argument?...please.
 
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So you know MLB and other NA pro sports have adopted the testing protocols of USADA and thus WADA? Now they have only adopted a selection of the multitude of drugs to screen for but they are using WADA protocols and 'approved' testing labs.

Therefore, as is already established in peer reviewed scientific journals that many of these protocols are arbitrary at best (hGH for example) and protocols and appeals do not permit alternative data for ones self defense, what we have is one mamma jamma sized straw man.

Also please note that I didn't say you were doing so intentionally. I'm just trying to share with you scientific facts that you can use later. You make great arguments Ron based on good rational analysis. Use that what talking about drugs in sports too.
 
totus44 said:
So you know MLB and other NA pro sports have adopted the testing protocols of USADA and thus WADA? Now they have only adopted a selection of the multitude of drugs to screen for but they are using WADA protocols and 'approved' testing labs.

Therefore, as is already established in peer reviewed scientific journals that many of these protocols are arbitrary at best (hGH for example) and protocols and appeals do not permit alternative data for ones self defense, what we have is one mamma jamma sized straw man.

Also please note that I didn't say you were doing so intentionally. I'm just trying to share with you scientific facts that you can use later. You make great arguments Ron based on good rational analysis. Use that what talking about drugs in sports too.
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...the "protocols" may use a similar outline as WADA but they are not governed and/or regulated by WADA...big differencce. And those protocols are administered by MLB people alone and because MLB is and always has been self governing, they are not influenced by the perceived WADA "politics" and bias you alluded to.

...also, what you fail to remember, Tote, is that any science, no matter how advanced it may be, can be skewed/altered/corrupted, etc., depending on who is interpreting the findings and who is reporting them...again, as technology gradually advances itself it will probably never be full proof because of human error/influence.


...you're preaching to the choir to a degree, because yes, I agree that newer technology may EVENTUALLY provide better and even more accurate PED test results...and MLB will surely adopt that newer technology, but only AFTER that technology itself has been tested and then of course approved by BOTH MLB AND the MLBPA...but as of NOW, both of those parties are OK with the current system.
 
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