MM's all important summer league game 1 grades

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PapaG said:
Well OK then. Just don't get pissy when people get called out for ripping a guy who actually has proven to have a valued NBA skill solely because he doesn't have the all-around game of LeBron James.

Then again, plenty of people here still rip on LMA because he's not Tim Duncan in terms of all-around game.

I guess I'm just learning to accept the limitations of players and try to emphasize their strengths (which is what good coaches do, for the most part), since if every player in the NBA was LeBron James, then LeBron James wouldn't be a special player. Mocking Babbitt because he's not Scottie Pippen-esque says more to me about the NBA knowledge of that particular fan than it tells me about Luke Babbitt's game.
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I'm happy to make fun of players - it's just fun, sometimes. I won't rip a guy for his natural limitations, though. BUT, I will rip a dude for terrible mistakes at crunch time (i.e. Blake and Felton with bad ball handling in late-game situations) and for a bad atttitude.
 
OregonHuskerMan said:
Or it's because Austin Rivers slowly tried to start doing way too much (reverted to his scoring ways) and single handedly dropped NOH shooting percentage from like 50%+ to low 40's (I believe is what they said at the end of the game). Or because NOH didn't have a true PG to run an offense.

Meyers Leonard was a -3, wasn't he? No way we win without him... +/- is a flawed statistic.
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I know +/- is a flawed statistic, but when you're posting that Babbitt's defense was killing the team, well, turns out they must have also been better offensively as well with him on the floor.

You offer a lot of opinions and interpretations, which is always great for conversation, but I've seen very little from you in terms of actual raw substance and hard data.
 
OregonHuskerMan said:
You don't draft someone in the mid teens to just 3's. You draft someone like that in the 20's, I.E. John Jenkins, in my opinion.
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Yes, we're certainly getting a lot of your opinions, aren't we? :)
 
Ed O said:
I can't believe that you're going by memory. How many times have you watched the game?

I think that giving up 12 points in 33 minutes is not being abused. I also think you're dramatically understating Thomas's capabilities. He scored in double digits several times as a rookie, including 18 points against the Nuggets, last year. He's not a great player--offensively or otherwise--but he's not a scrub, either, who hasn't sniffed the NBA.

Babbitt's not a good defender, but I can't help but defend him against accusations of him getting "manhandled by shitty players" and after I find your supporting evidence to be so flimsy for such an assertion.

Ed O.
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4 times thus far. I'm honestly trying to learn Lillard/Meyers as players and to see what I like about their games and what will hopefully translate once they play in a legitimate game.

Sigh, you act as if he only gave up 12 points in 33 minutes. Once again, he wasn't ONLY matched up with Lance Thomas, as he played some 3/4 and he not all of Lance's points came against him.

His defensive rotations are poor, he fouls, he gets beat off the dribble, gave up offensive rebound putbacks, put his teams defense in jeopardy which directly led to other players fouls, which in total led to more than 12 points for the other team.

Honestly, there is one elite offensive player on that team - Austin Rivers - all the rest are shitty offensive players. Lance Thomas averaged about 5 points per game at Duke (which may be an overestimation, but I love all my Dukies), and probably averages around that for NOH. There is honestly no way Babbitt should look that poor defensively against those offensive players. His rotations were sloppy, slow and not NBA quality.
 
Alright, if you want statistics here are some for you.

Babbitt's PER - http://www.82games.com/1112/11POR9.HTM

SF - 6
PF - 16

Opponents PER

SF - 16
PF - 26

Of course we were better offensively with him on the floor - in a summer league game. That's undeniable. The guy can flat out shoot, he scores. But we don't make that comeback if they have a team with a PG that identifies mismatches and exploits them. Lance Thomas on the block against Babbitt would have gotten BUCKETS upon BUCKETS. The fact is, Austin Rivers is a shooting guard and started looking for his own shot, and missing. We got back into the game because of that. If he sets up an actual offense, Babbitt would have been targeted and they would have kept the lead, most likely.

The NBA data supports that he is awful defensively. He should be happy that he was up against non-nba quality players, as when we play HOU I think you'll have a much clearer picture on Babbitt's defense.

If there was data for summer league, I'm sure it would support that his D is bad. But the lack of sets actual benefits Babbitt as they don't try to find weak links like him. For now, I'll have to trust my eyes and the fact that I've repeatedly seen Babbitt get smashed.
 
OregonHuskerMan said:
Alright, if you want statistics here are some for you.

Babbitt's PER - http://www.82games.com/1112/11POR9.HTM

SF - 6
PF - 16

Opponents PER

SF - 16
PF - 26

Of course we were better offensively with him on the floor - in a summer league game. That's undeniable. The guy can flat out shoot, he scores. But we don't make that comeback if they have a team with a PG that identifies mismatches and exploits them. Lance Thomas on the block against Babbitt would have gotten BUCKETS upon BUCKETS. The fact is, Austin Rivers is a shooting guard and started looking for his own shot, and missing. We got back into the game because of that. If he sets up an actual offense, Babbitt would have been targeted and they would have kept the lead, most likely.

The NBA data supports that he is awful defensively. He should be happy that he was up against non-nba quality players, as when we play HOU I think you'll have a much clearer picture on Babbitt's defense.

If there was data for summer league, I'm sure it would support that his D is bad. But the lack of sets actual benefits Babbitt as they don't try to find weak links like him. For now, I'll have to trust my eyes and the fact that I've repeatedly seen Babbitt get smashed.
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What the fuck are you talking about man?!?!?!?! Babbit is the next Bird! He just didn't get the green light from Nate!
 
Babbitt was very slow to rotate on defense. There were several plays where Leonard rotated to stop penetration, and Babbitt stood flat footed out of the play while the man he was supposed to cover got an uncontested dunk or layup. Something for him to work on.
 
Hard on Barton

He missed some shots he'll usually hit, and he showed some good playmaking ability with a nice pass to Leonard for a dunk
 
PapaG said:
...and then they went 8-15 while losing 7 games by at least 12 points.
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And your point?

We weren't much better before. At least we stopped getting blown out by 40 points. Players put in the effort. We played some tight games. LA missed the last several games. We had traded away our starting SF and C.

One minute you're defending Babbitt, and now you're either derailing the topic, or disproving your support of Babbitt. Babbitt turned it up after the Nate firing. So, now are you trying to say that he only improved because he was on a shittier team?
 
Ed O said:
Agreed.

I don't mind players who have one skill... if they can do it consistently and it's valuable. (One of the reasons I still like Bayless is because of his ability to get to the free throw line, although he dipped this year a bit.)

Babbitt can and does shoot the deep ball very well. That's a very valuable skill to have (spreading the floor) and it's something that he should be able to keep and build on.

Ed O.
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Very valid point and one that shouldn't be overlooked. LaMarcus became an All-Star last year beating double and triple teams every game. Spreading the floor with knock down shooters like Babbitt would make Aldridge's post game and the pick and roll game with Lillard so much easier. Part of the problem with the offense (besides continuous islations) the last few years was a complete lack of any consistant jump shooters. It's really hard to beat teams when they can pack 5 defenders in and dare you to shoot over them. Babbitt, Korver. Novak and the Mike Miller's of the NBA are all very valuable for their ability to force defenders away from the basket.
 
tlongII said:
When I take into consideration my expectations prior to the game I have to give Leonard an A as well. I had no idea he had the talent he displayed. I just wish there was still a Pete Newell's Big Man Camp that we could send him to!
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But, it never stopped you from calling him a big white stiff.

Leonard > Drummond.

Easy.
 
Nikolokolus said:
I disagree with the stylistic comparison. Paul is a sublime passer and has really never been a "drive and kick" point guard. If you want to compare him to a past or present player that's your prerogative, but like I said I just don't see Paul's game in him ... if you insist on making a comparison I could see a Porter or Chauncey argument.
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Olshey was on the NBATV telecast saying that Lillard reminds him of Chauncey.
 
MickZagger said:
Olshey was on the NBATV telecast saying that Lillard reminds him of Chauncey.
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That's a comparison I can see and agree with. Time will tell. But I think that's probably one of the best and most realistic (if it's fair to compare a rookie who has yet to play a single NBA game with an NBA All-Star).
 
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