Mo Williams: Okay time to exploit the Stats

[magnifier661]

Forget the eye test, which is pretty damn accurate already... Let's just be forensic right now.

http://www.82games.com/1314/1314POR.HTM

Mo is getting a PER of 11.0, but gives up 17.9 to his opponents. That is a whopping 6.9 PER minus! Then look at when he's on the floor and off the floor.

On the Floor: The team is a 1.1, but off the floor our team is a whopping +13.0.

His eFG is a dismal 47%, but the telling tale is how he is used. His usage is 20.7 for a shitty 11.3 PER.

He is a definite liability to this team. Either Stotts does something like take some of his minutes away and bring in Watson, or Olshey find some team that would like him to be the shooting guard off the bench.

I know, I know, wait until CJ comes back. I've said this too. But lets be honest here. CJ will be basically the same player Mo is to our club. I am not comfortable with two players that is a scoring guard, not a facilitator.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I'll look at some numbers later, but I'm gonna wait to say pass or fail until we figure out EXACTLY what Mo was brought in to do.

Any thoughts?

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I'll look at some numbers later, but I'm gonna wait to say pass or fail until we figure out EXACTLY what Mo was brought in to do.

Any thoughts?

In other words, wait till our injured player is back to see what the rotation "should be" first? I'm definitely down with that.

 

[BBert]

I think Mo was brought in to do what he does, better than he does it.

 

[BlazerWookee]

I don't mind Mo missing shots so long as he's actually passing the ball once or twice and not dribble-dribble-dribble-chuck every other possession. We need him to play fourth fiddle, not stand up and play solo.

 

[magnifier661]

I'll look at some numbers later, but I'm gonna wait to say pass or fail until we figure out EXACTLY what Mo was brought in to do.

Any thoughts?

I think he was brought in to score off the bench; which he is doing.... My problem is can CJ have the ability to run an offense? He seems like he could fit the "Lillard mold", but will he?

I'm fine with waiting and seeing... Just wanted to point out why people in game threads are up in arms when he's in the game. They have good reason right now.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Mo was brought in to be a better option than Nolan Smith.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Mo isn't the primary problem on the bench, its a factor of not having any other options out there to score. You put Chris Paul with that squad, he'll look worse too because there's no one reliable to pass or go to.

 

[jlprk]

Well, name the player you want. All he has to be is

1. A shooter at PG, because Olshey likes shooters
2. Willing to sign a contract ending 1 1/2 seasons from now, to fit Olshey's timetable
3. Gettable for something more than #2s, since Olshey gobbled them up
4. Better than Mo, otherwise why do this

 

[magnifier661]

Mo isn't the primary problem on the bench, its a factor of not having any other options out there to score. You put Chris Paul with that squad, he'll look worse too because there's no one reliable to pass or go to.

Lillard and Matthews, Batum or Lopez usually plays when he's on the floor. So Mo has plenty of people to pass to. Lillard is the main target.

 

[MAS RipCity]

I don't mind Mo's shot-selection. I knew what his reputation was before and that some nights he'll be hot, others very cold. But what I can't accept is his defense right now. In less than two minutes, his defender went backdoor and just strolled to the rim for a lay-up. Mo wasn't denying the ball and didn't keep his head on a swivel. I know he's not a good defender. On-ball, I can live with. But when you give up easy buckets like that consistently, it's unacceptable.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Lillard and Matthews, Batum or Lopez usually plays when he's on the floor. So Mo has plenty of people to pass to. Lillard is the main target.

Wings vs. Post presence. When there's not post threat down low there's more pressure on the wings. Aldridge helps draw double teams so it opens the floor up a lot more. When you don't have that post threat, you open the floor by attacking the hoop. There's an offensive set where Mo just attacks the basket but then goes towards the sideline to lose the defender. Its a different offense when Aldridge is not on the floor.

Once Trob and Freeland start developing a better offensive game, we should be better. Just will take time.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I think Stott's pass-first, unselfish, wide-open offense is stifling him.

 

[magnifier661]

Wings vs. Post presence. When there's not post threat down low there's more pressure on the wings. Aldridge helps draw double teams so it opens the floor up a lot more. When you don't have that post threat, you open the floor by attacking the hoop. There's an offensive set where Mo just attacks the basket but then goes towards the sideline to lose the defender. Its a different offense when Aldridge is not on the floor.

Once Trob and Freeland start developing a better offensive game, we should be better. Just will take time.

So you think adding a player like Hawes or Bass could help the bench then? Basically, both those players would be exactly what you pointed out.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

So you think adding a player like Hawes or Bass could help the bench then? Basically, both those players would be exactly what you pointed out.

Yes. Trob and Freeland are WAY too raw. We need someone we can run isolations for off the bench in the post.

However, I still see this as a growth year so I'm more in favor in giving Trob and Freeland burn. In the long run it may cost us some wins, but long term its better for the team.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I think Stott's pass-first, unselfish, wide-open offense is stifling him.

Well-played.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I don't mind Mo missing shots so long as he's actually passing the ball once or twice and not dribble-dribble-dribble-chuck every other possession. We need him to play fourth fiddle, not stand up and play solo.

We don't really have a pass first PG on this roster. Mo's AST% of 27.3 is right at his career average and higher than both Lillard and Earl Watson. When Batum is on the floor, he helps facilitate ball movement. As long as we have two of Williams, Batum and Lillard on the floor, we are fine. But leave Mo out there without Lillard or Batum and ball movement grinds to a halt. A backcourt of Mo and Wes, with Dorell Wright at small forward gives us three good 3-point shooters, but no one to really set them up. And, that's when Mo starts looking to create his own shot - which is OK once in a while, you just don't want to rely on it for extended stretches.

BNM

 

[420Phenom]

Mo has got to go. If we want to keep him on the squad we would need someone of Tony Allen's level of perimeter defense to make up for it. A upgrade to the reserve 1 could certainly take the team up a notch! My favorite...

Shelvin Mack. Have been pimping him on BE lately. He has been extremely efficient offensively this year & his defense has been good. Smart kid & doesn't force much but a talented passer. Has an assist to turnover ratio trailing only the great Chris Paul.(I checked like a day or two ago may have changed). Young at 23 he could be Lillards long term backup, because IMO CJ is a small 2 guard. He played mostly off ball at LeHigh. We could send Leonard to Atlanta & either keep CJ or move him in a different deal.

To El Presidente.

Yes. Trob and Freeland are WAY too raw. We need someone we can run isolations for off the bench in the post.

I agree they are raw, but also thing a backup PG capable of getting TRob to properly roll to the basket & finish he could possibly be a legit backup 4 by the playoffs(assuming some growth obviously). I'd say a backup 5 is more a pressing need. I know I'm dreaming but Tyson Chandler just came back(looked solid)... Him & Olshey have a long standing relationship going back to him preparing him for the draft after HS.

First post on here, been on BE for a few years. Lover of the Blazers since Sabonis. Rip City!

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Mo has got to go. If we want to keep him on the squad we would need someone of Tony Allen's level of perimeter defense to make up for it. A upgrade to the reserve 1 could certainly take the team up a notch! My favorite...

Shelvin Mack. Have been pimping him on BE lately. He has been extremely efficient offensively this year & his defense has been good. Smart kid & doesn't force much but a talented passer. Has an assist to turnover ratio trailing on the great Chris Paul.(I checked like a day or two ago may have changed). Young at 23 he could be Lillards long term backup, because IMO CJ is a small 2 guard. He played mostly off ball at LeHigh. We could send Leonard to Atlanta & either keep CJ or move him in a different deal.

First post on here, been on BE for a few years. Lover of the Blazers since Sabonis. Rip City!

Interesting post, welcome to RipCityTwo!

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

You guys do realize we got Mo for cheap as Fuck. You do realize he was an ok starter last year and two years ago he was a sixth man of the year contender. He is our best bench player, yes he is streaky but he also has helped us win some games. All of the constant bitching about him is unwarranted. We could have Nolan smith and Ronnie price back. Would you guys like that?

Talking about how he isn't playing well and how he isn't doing some of the right things is one thing, but Jesus, some of you act like he is a fucking scrub

 

[KingSpeed]

Geezus mags! We are 22-5. That is only stat that matters. Off hand, we don't beat Brooklyn or Indy without him. We've only lost 5 games so it's not like you can pin a bunch of losses on him. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Bitching about PER is stupid. A third of the season is in the books and we're on pace for 66 wins! Also- Mo is the only guy on our team who has won a playoff series. That will come in handy down the road.

 

[jlprk]

Well, name the player you want. All he has to be is

1. A shooter at PG, because Olshey likes shooters
2. Willing to sign a contract ending 1 1/2 seasons from now, to fit Olshey's timetable
3. Gettable for something more than #2s, since Olshey gobbled them up
4. Better than Mo, otherwise why do this

You guys do realize we got Mo for cheap as Fuck. You do realize he was an ok starter last year and two years ago he was a sixth man of the year contender. He I'd our best bench player, yes he is streaky but he also has helped us win some games. All of the constant bitching about him is unwarranted. We could have Nolan smith and Ronnie price back. Would you guys like that?

Talking about how he isn't playing well and how he isn't doing some of the right things, but Jesus, some of you act like he is a fucking scrub

That's what I was saying.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

The rope is short as fuck around here. Micromanagment at its finest.

Mo is fine. He's not going anywhere, he's a professional. An all-star, historically decent 3 point shooter and scorer off the bench and he'll do what we need to do. Like said above, he came cheap. He came here because of a good relationship with Olshey. Olshey gets these relationships around the league and is able to land these players BECAUSE HE DOESN'T SIGN GUYS AND TRADE THEM 25 GAMES LATER BECAUSE OF SOME FUCKING OBSCURE "PER AGAINST" STAT.

We don't need to dump him for some semi-obscure player (which seems to be an obsession amoung blazer fans for some reason).

 

[Natebishop3]

You guys do realize we got Mo for cheap as Fuck. You do realize he was an ok starter last year and two years ago he was a sixth man of the year contender. He I'd our best bench player, yes he is streaky but he also has helped us win some games. All of the constant bitching about him is unwarranted. We could have Nolan smith and Ronnie price back. Would you guys like that?

Talking about how he isn't playing well and how he isn't doing some of the right things, but Jesus, some of you act like he is a fucking scrub

It's not about his shooting. It's about how he plays horrible defense, he dribbles way too much, and he makes poor decisions. If he was just shooting a poor percentage I would understand, but he's supposed to be a veteran, All-Star point guard. He makes horrible decisions with the ball and he kills all the ball movement and momentum that the starters get going. The guy has a horrible PER. Is he Nolan Smith? No, but Nolan Smith only stayed in the NBA for four years because he was drafted in the first round. That guy never would have made it more than a year if he was a second rounder.

 

[420Phenom]

You guys do realize we got Mo for cheap as Fuck. You do realize he was an ok starter last year and two years ago he was a sixth man of the year contender. He I'd our best bench player, yes he is streaky but he also has helped us win some games. All of the constant bitching about him is unwarranted. We could have Nolan smith and Ronnie price back. Would you guys like that?

Talking about how he isn't playing well and how he isn't doing some of the right things, but Jesus, some of you act like he is a fucking scrub

He is a journey man vet. Way better than last year & I appreciate that. He is a good playmaker & can get his own shot. However, there are major flaws in his game that aren't going away though. Terrible defense & inefficient offense, prone to forcing a play instead of getting into Stotts system.

Mack would alleviate all of these problems & is on a deal half the size of Mo's. Why would they trade him? If their 2nd unit wasn't so solid when Teague was out, they'd have a better shot at a higher pick in the vaunted 2014 draft. Perhaps while also picking up a young asset who can't produce like him now but down the road could be solid. Why is it so good for us? The PG is the QB of an offense & has to defend QB's on the other end. In todays NBA, probably the most important position on the floor besides a rim protecting big. He would be much more adept at setting up our guys like Robinson & Wright. Less prone to force the issue(2 TO vs .8 per game), instead prefers getting a good shot like this offense is designed for.

No need for the aggression dude! Just talking upgrades which I'd say Olshey is always on the look for in any form.

 

[KingSpeed]

Mo wasn't sixth man of year on Cleveland. He was a starter and an All Star. Never mind. I misread.

 

[BigGameDamian]

I don't mind Mo missing shots so long as he's actually passing the ball once or twice and not dribble-dribble-dribble-chuck every other possession. We need him to play fourth fiddle, not stand up and play solo.

Ya I think it was Popovich who once said " I don't care if my team coughs the ball up or gives up points just as long as they get it back."

 

[Sinobas]

Hey, I've been crapping on Mo for awhile now, and you'd accuse me of being too negative, and now look who starts a thread on this topic. The dude has been frustrating to watch. He's like Travis Outlaw, where he'll really give us a nice shot in the arm every once in awhile, but most of the time, he's a chucker who just keeps making bone headed plays.

I'm disappointed with him, because he'a a 30 year old vet who has been a starter in this league, and this year he's not even a a decent BACKUP for us. He's better than Ronnie Price and Smith....but I miss Eric Maynor.

 

[magnifier661]

Hey, I've been crapping on Mo for awhile now, and you'd accuse me of being too negative, and now look who starts a thread on this topic. The dude has been frustrating to watch. He's like Travis Outlaw, where he'll really give us a nice shot in the arm every once in awhile, but most of the time, he's a chucker who just keeps making bone headed plays.

I'm disappointed with him, because he'a a 30 year old vet who has been a starter in this league, and this year he's not even a a decent BACKUP for us. He's better than Ronnie Price and Smith....but I miss Eric Maynor.

Difference is you were talking about Aldridge and we know you were dead wrong. Everyone in this forum probably agrees that Mo has holes that get exploited.

 

[MarAzul]

Too bad we don't still have Patty Mills.