Moe's big night

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dviss1 said:
More like he took 2 shots and doesn't have the ability to create more.... :dunno:
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Your right he can't create his own shot but he a lot stronger him moving around picks going toward the basket.
 
I’d start Collins at SF. He could do the job imo.
 
Boob-No-More said:
I know it's not his best position or even his second best position, but until Aminu comes back, I'd like to see Stotts try starting Swanigan next to Nurk and Vonleh. Yeah, I know Swanigan will struggle on defense, especially guarding smaller SFs, but he'll have two defensive studs behind him in Vonleh and Nurk. Plus with the way Stotts has his players switch on EVERY pick and roll, he'll probably end up on an opposing big anyway.

So why do it? When it comes to hustle and effort, Swanigan is the exact opposite of Harkless. This team continues to struggle to get going at the beginning of games. Swanigan's energy and the extra possessions it creates can help jump start the team's scoring. Just put him out there for 6 or 8 minutes, getting offensive rebounds, steals and diving after loose balls. All the things Harklesss should be doing, but isn't.

Yeah, I know it's unconventional, but why not try playing the guys who actually act like they want to play and bench the guys who don't. Playing time should be earned and Mo Harkless isn't earning any. Bury him deep on the bench until he starts acing like he actually wants to play.

BNM
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I like it.
 
Boob-No-More said:
Starting Patty Baseball at SF makes us severely undersized. Which is why I suggested starting Swanigan. I'm not advocating playing the rookie big minutes at SF. That wouldn't work. But just put him out there for 6 or 8 minutes to bring some energy and then go with a more conventional line up.

I can't wait until Aminu gets back. For all of his flaws, lack of energy and effort has never been a problem for Cheif. Plus he's actually a better shooter than Mo, and seems to making better decisions with the ball this year.

BNM
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He is back tonight!!!
 
tlongII said:
I’d start Collins at SF. He could do the job imo.
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My thoughts exactly. He's got good enough mobility, combined with his length and defensive instincts, that he probably wouldn't get burned too bad on the perimeter.
 
handiman said:
My thoughts exactly. He's got good enough mobility, combined with his length and defensive instincts, that he probably wouldn't get burned too bad on the perimeter.
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Aminu would be my first choice if he is indeed back. With Swanigan, I was thinking that Vonleh is good enough defensively that he's capable of guarding smaller and faster players when switching in the PNR. So, about half the time, Swanigan would end up switched onto a big anyway. Or simply have Vonleh guard the SF when he's paired with Swanigan. Again this would just be for limited minutes, like 6 or 8 to start the game.

Defensively I like the Nurk, Vonleh, Collins trio, and they wouldn't be much worse offensively than what we're getting with Harkless starting.

The reason I suggested Swanigan over Collins is Swanigan manufactures a lot of hustle points and that's something we are lacking now with our starting unit. We are flat out getting out worked by other teams at the start of games, something that's less likely to happen with Swanigan on the floor.

BNM
 
^ I see your logic. Collins might be a "stand around and watch" guy on the perimeter in Stotts' system, even though he's a hustle player at heart.
 
At this point I feel the only discussion we should be having about him is what we can realistically get back in a trade. Fortunately his desire to move to NY cannot force us to move him there but his stock must have gone downhill this season and could almost turn him from a small asset he was last season to a liability.

Who needs a small forward? Knicks do for sure but I fear for the return we could get from them. Courtney Lee cannot play small forward long term, and KOQ is expiring. I would still do Harkless for KOQ and then try to move someone else for a legitimate small forward.
 
Sarni said:
At this point I feel the only discussion we should be having about him is what we can realistically get back in a trade. Fortunately his desire to move to NY cannot force us to move him there but his stock must have gone downhill this season and could almost turn him from a small asset he was last season to a liability.

Who needs a small forward? Knicks do for sure but I fear for the return we could get from them. Courtney Lee cannot play small forward long term, and KOQ is expiring. I would still do Harkless for KOQ and then try to move someone else for a legitimate small forward.
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Moe still has value because he’s young and has shown enough to justify 10m per. New York could still use a young SF and their GM has a personal relationship with Harkless so that’s still a possibility. Harkless for Lee sounds pretty fair to me.
 
Scalma said:
Moe still has value because he’s young and has shown enough to justify 10m per. New York could still use a young SF and their GM has a personal relationship with Harkless so that’s still a possibility. Harkless for Lee sounds pretty fair to me.
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Yeah maybe he won't be considered a liability but the return we are likely to get will be much worse than it would have been last year.

Harkless for Lee doesn't really improve us and leaves a significant gap at small forward which worries me. I would try to package Harkless and Vonleh together for a small forward, Denzel Valentine is a player I like a lot and his stock at Chicago does not seem very high currently.
 
Would you do this as a way to get Crowder? Would CLE do it in order to get more ball-handling with Thomas injured and Rose on suicide-watch? I gotta say, I do this without blinking. I don't like Smith, but he'd be far better for our team than Turner, and saves us about $4m.

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They would be crazy not to looking at those PERs. I don't think POR would do that deal crazy enough.
 
Getting rid of Vonleh is a non starter in a trade. The kid is a machine and is 22. He is our best PF by a long long ways, our best defender and our best rebounder.
 
rotary111 said:
Getting rid of Vonleh is a non starter in a trade. The kid is a machine and is 22. He is our best PF by a long long ways, our best defender and our best rebounder.
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He is expiring in the Summer though.
 
rotary111 said:
Getting rid of Vonleh is a non starter in a trade. The kid is a machine and is 22. He is our best PF by a long long ways, our best defender and our best rebounder.
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I don’t want to get rid of him either, but everyone has a price. Not sure what Vonleh’s is. I will say I wouldn’t trade him for someone like Valentine, and Valentine was someone I suggested a couple months ago and is playing well for Chicago. I’d only give up Vonleh for a true difference maker.
 
Scalma said:
He’s a RFA.
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Yeah and if someone offers him $10M which isn't unrealistic considering how few rebounders are there, and someone offers Nurkic $22M or so, we will need to add $32M while also not retaining Napier, Davis or Connaughton, taking our bill to $143M and being very short in numbers (ZERO backups in the backcourt).

We've put ourselves in position where it is almost impossible to retain everyone we have because we went over the top to bring Turner here and bring back Harkless and Leonard. I think we absolutely need to trade all three for someone who earns considerably more, otherwise we will be screwed.

It's crazy how we put ourselves in the corner with Turner and Leonard deals when nobody was going to offer them close to what we paid. $28M on them two, remove that and we might have even gone for Jonathon Simmons or Tyreke Evans last Summer.
 
Sarni said:
Yeah and if someone offers him $10M which isn't unrealistic considering how few rebounders are there, and someone offers Nurkic $22M or so, we will need to add $32M while also not retaining Napier, Davis or Connaughton, taking our bill to $143M and being very short in numbers (ZERO backups in the backcourt).

We've put ourselves in position where it is almost impossible to retain everyone we have because we went over the top to bring Turner here and bring back Harkless and Leonard. I think we absolutely need to trade all three for someone who earns considerably more, otherwise we will be screwed.

It's crazy how we put ourselves in the corner with Turner and Leonard deals when nobody was going to offer them close to what we paid. $28M on them two, remove that and we might have even gone for Jonathon Simmons or Tyreke Evans last Summer.
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It’s pretty easy when it comes to our RFA. You keep Nurkic and Vonleh. The rest can leave. Ideally we’ll be able to trade Napier before the deadline. Wade Baldwin and CJ Wilcox will be names to watch eventually.
 
Scalma said:
It’s pretty easy when it comes to our RFA. You keep Nurkic and Vonleh. The rest can leave. Ideally we’ll be able to trade Napier before the deadline. Wade Baldwin and CJ Wilcox will be names to watch eventually.
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OK but we could still get to $140M or so, for a roster that isn't competitive at the highest level.

If we don't clear any of Harkless, Turner and Leonard for much cheaper alternatives I don't see how we can pay both Nurkic and Vonleh.
 
Scalma said:
You’re talking to people that will die on a hill defending scrubs while simultaneously having no problem criticizing the only players that keep portland from having the worst collection of talent in the league. What I’m trying to say is...good luck.
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What's the alternative in your mind? Only scrubs can be criticized? It's always the scrubs fault? You sound like a modern feminist talking about men.
 
Paine Tablet said:
What's the alternative in your mind? Only scrubs can be criticized? It's always the scrubs fault? You sound like a modern feminist talking about men.
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When the scrub does a bad thing, I don’t go pointing the figure at the other guy.
 
Right now Collins is like a cobweb on the court...guys just sweep him outta the way...he has skills but needs 25-40 lbs of muscle to not get crushed out there...he's a project with great skills...check back in two more seasons and we'll see what we've made him into...
 
tlongII said:
That's just speculation. I think we should give him a shot.
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Huh? I saw this with my own eyes when we played the Pacers...

And we drafted him to be a Center. There's NO WAY he can play SF...

What the hell are people thinking? Those same people thought TT could play SF too...

You have to be able to handle the ball and run a pick and roll so no...
 
dviss1 said:
No he was not. It's the reason we overpaid Turner in the first place.
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Not quite. Turner was overpaid summer of 2016. I was referencing Moe's perfectly adequate performance as the starting SF in 2016-17, after Turner's arrival.

If Moe had performed in 2015-16 as he did in 2016-17, he'd have received a much larger deal that summer, and it's arguable Turner wouldn't have been signed. There's a reason many in here (you included) were very much against the idea of Moe being traded away this past summer--because his defense, athleticism, and shooting seemingly gave us everything we really needed at SF, despite his shortcomings as a playmaker.
 
dviss1 said:
Huh? I saw this with my own eyes when we played the Pacers...

And we drafted him to be a Center. There's NO WAY he can play SF...

What the hell are people thinking? Those same people thought TT could play SF too...

You have to be able to handle the ball and run a pick and roll so no...
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He played 7 minutes against the Pacers. That's not enough time to make a definitive judgment. I think he can handle the ball reasonably well. He just needs to slow down.
 
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