OT Most Portland riot suspects won't be prosecuted, US attorney reveals

[Orion Bailey]

Why would you try pushing through a bunch of innocent people when you already have plain clothes officers on the person who committed the crime with video evidence of the whole thing? That person is going to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

See what I mean? You're literally just making excuses to argue. You don't actually seem to want solutions.

You're not making any good points, just being argumentative and defensive.

are you forgetting when unmarked men tossed people in vans? Do you really think plain clothed police starting to apprehend someone isnt going to cause a major deal and have repercussions on the spot?

Im not trying to argue. Im simply pointing out things that i dont feel you have factored into your rationale or you wouldn't have such a stance.
Am i not allowed to bring that up without you making it personal??
Im trying to play the scene out that you say will work.
I see plain clothed police being attacked in return.

i dont see it working. When i point out reasons why, you spin circles. You dont actually address my points of difference.

i Am reading what you are saying. It just doesnt make sense in the big picture based off historical footage of previous events how they occur, the crowds response, etc.
The crimes mostly happen at night. And not in the same area. Yet you are saying they should have had cameras up everywhere with drones and undercover cops with cameras.

And you are saying that would have been the answer and is the answer.

Again i don't think you are equating all factors into your rationale.

i call it disagreeing with you and pointing out reasons why.
As for your last sentence i could say the exact same thing about you.
I keep pointing out reasons i dont think your opinion would work.

Im sorry if that offends you or whatever.

people can disagree without being demeaning ya know.....

 

[Orion Bailey]

I think you are also underselling the crowds cover and protection of the criminals.

every single time cops have tried to make arrests its turned into chaos.

because the protestors are, in part, protecting the criminals.


in the end though this is all stupid judgmental bullshit.
It really is black and white.
We all know what a wrong is and its up to all of us to stand up for humanity and call it out and try to stop it when it occurs. That's what good, caring people do. To defend any other response to me is only aiding to the derailment of the situation at hand.
Obviously with asterisks.

 

[Phatguysrule]

are you forgetting when unmarked men tossed people in vans? Do you really think plain clothed police starting to apprehend someone isnt going to cause a major deal and have repercussions on the spot?

Im not trying to argue. Im simply pointing out things that i dont feel you have factored into your rationale or you wouldn't have such a stance.
Am i not allowed to bring that up without you making it personal??
Im trying to play the scene out that you say will work.
I see plain clothed police being attacked in return.

i dont see it working. When i point out reasons why, you spin circles. You dont actually address my points of difference.

i Am reading what you are saying. It just doesnt make sense in the big picture based off historical footage of previous events how they occur, the crowds response, etc.
The crimes mostly happen at night. And not in the same area. Yet you are saying they should have had cameras up everywhere with drones and undercover cops with cameras.

And you are saying that would have been the answer and is the answer.

Again i don't think you are equating all factors into your rationale.

i call it disagreeing with you and pointing out reasons why.
As for your last sentence i could say the exact same thing about you.
I keep pointing out reasons i dont think your opinion would work.

Im sorry if that offends you or whatever.

people can disagree without being demeaning ya know.....

Right, people threw a fit over abductions because those unmarked men did not say who they were and commenced abducting people who were doing nothing wrong. Plain clothes police officers would follow the person who committed the crime, arrest them, read them their rights, show their badge, have VIDEO EVIDENCE, etc. Not just grab people standing on the side of the road and throw them in an unmarked van. COMPLETELY different scenario.

How long do you think it takes to set up a camera? How long do you think it takes to get a plane over a crowd? These people start congregating and remain there for HOURS. I'm literally picking apart every one of your concerns, but you just don't want to hear it. The REFUSAL TO TRY is a huge red flag. The main job of police is to GATHER EVIDENCE. Yet they refuse to use VIDEO.

You're right. We disagree. I believe in actually trying to solve the problem, using EVIDENCE. Rather than just arresting random people and complaining that the poor police aren't allowed to violate the constitutional rights of our citizens.

 

[Phatguysrule]

every single time cops have tried to make arrests its turned into chaos.

because the protestors are, in part, protecting the criminals.

I can only assume you have plenty of evidence to support this claim. Roll the video. I'll get some popcorn, considering there have been literally thousands of arrests...

 

[Orion Bailey]

Right, people threw a fit over abductions because those unmarked men did not say who they were and commenced abducting people who were doing nothing wrong. Plain clothes police officers would follow the person who committed the crime, arrest them, read them their rights, show their badge, have VIDEO EVIDENCE, etc. Not just grab people standing on the side of the road and throw them in an unmarked van. COMPLETELY different scenario.

How long do you think it takes to set up a camera? How long do you think it takes to get a plane over a crowd? These people start congregating and remain there for HOURS. I'm literally picking apart every one of your concerns, but you just don't want to hear it. The REFUSAL TO TRY is a huge red flag. The main job of police is to GATHER EVIDENCE. Yet they refuse to use VIDEO.

You're right. We disagree. I believe in actually trying to solve the problem, using EVIDENCE. Rather than just arresting random people and complaining that the poor police aren't allowed to violate the constitutional rights of our citizens.

who said arrest random people? More of your spin?

lol.

id say it takes alot longer to get a plane in the air than it does to smash a window. You disagree?

id also say it takes less time to smash a window than it does for someone operating a camera to zero in and track someone running from a scene and around corners when they can hide from aerial views under trees, turn the corner from a camera on a building side. Not to mention( though i have several times) that most all wear mask, dress in black and look close to the same.

Again i think you are vastly underestimating how easy it is to smash a window and get away regardless of cameras.

You are talking about a super expensive way to catch a vandal, btw, planes in the air and such....

Screw that. Have the protestors stand aside when the cops go through the line to go after criminals, or get arrested for aiding and a bedding. Period.
As a tax payer, screw spending exhorbinate amount of funds only to avoid confronting those who want to protect criminals.

Of course cameras should be used. But the FACT is there are people who claim innocence while actively and purposely making it harder for the cops to do thier job by creating human blockades and such and then when the cops have to use force to get through or detain they are resisted.

your continual dismissal of this is a huge red flag...

Your way is not utilized currently in most cities because its not financially realistic. Or it would be done already. Do you disagree with that? And if you do disagree then can you please provide reasoning as to why it isn't currently a widespread utilization?

 

[Orion Bailey]

I can only assume you have plenty of evidence to support this claim. Roll the video. I'll get some popcorn, considering there have been literally thousands of arrests...

lol. If you haven't seen it in the last year, nothing i show you will get through to you.

if you think all who were arrested downtown went peacefully and if you don't think the cops dealt with other protestors harassing them while trying to do their job.. well that is quite alarming... and innacurate.

fact is there are multiple sects that could and should have the finger pointed at. But for some reason its okay to point at the cops and only the cops as being the only ones at fault.

just soo innacurate...


Listen im not trying to fight, simply looking to discuss differences of opinions currently.
I believe there is alot more going on down town and its not all always goign to fall in line to make it easy for your ideas to work.
Hostile crowds not wanting to help cops make it very difficult to do thier job and the moment a plain clothed officer attempts an arrest he is outed. So unless you want a one to one ratio, which is completely unrealistic financially, i dont see how having a few cops undercover in a crowd will be able to keep up with a smash and runner even with eyes in the sky.


Now we can disagree on how fast we think the criminals will get away but we dont have to be insulting or belittling over it.

I dont know if you have, but i have lived on the streets of portland and i know how sly the criminals are. They know downtown very well. How to get away. Where to hide.
I just think there is a vast underestimation of how quick it is for these guys to smash and run and get away.

 

[Phatguysrule]

who said arrest random people? More of your spin?

lol.

id say it takes alot longer to get a plane in the air than it does to smash a window. You disagree?

id also say it takes less time to smash a window than it does for someone operating a camera to zero in and track someone running from a scene and around corners when they can hide from aerial views under trees, turn the corner from a camera on a building side. Not to mention( though i have several times) that most all wear mask, dress in black and look close to the same.

Again i think you are vastly underestimating how easy it is to smash a window and get away regardless of cameras.

You are talking about a super expensive way to catch a vandal, btw, planes in the air and such....

Screw that. Have the protestors stand aside when the cops go through the line to go after criminals, or get arrested for aiding and a bedding. Period.
As a tax payer, screw spending exhorbinate amount of funds only to avoid confronting those who want to protect criminals.

Of course cameras should be used. But the FACT is there are people who claim innocence while actively and purposely making it harder for the cops to do thier job by creating human blockades and such and then when the cops have to use force to get through or detain they are resisted.

your continual dismissal of this is a huge red flag...

Your way is not utilized currently in most cities because its not financially realistic. Or it would be done already. Do you disagree with that? And if you do disagree then can you please provide reasoning as to why it isn't currently a widespread utilization?

Most cities have body cams. In fact, every other large city in the country uses body cams. So yes, EVERY other city is doing more than Portland.

High definition cameras do not need to zero in on anything. And no, a plane over the city is not expensive. Cities in this country have done this all day every day for years at a time. They do this to catch drug dealers. This is not new technology. This is not expensive technology.

If this is as big a problem as you and the police want us to believe it should certainly be a bigger deal than some drug dealer.

Yeah, if you have evidence that somebody interfered with police I'm fine with arresting them. But doing it without evidence will just be a waste of time. And no amount of bitching is going to change that.

The police are responsible for gathering evidence to keep order. They are doing neither and things are out of control because they are not doing their jobs. I'm not paying anybody else, so I can't hold them accountable.

 

[Lanny]

That video was from this last year. There are dozens more.

The police are far more militarized now than they were under Bush, largely because of Bush's regime, but Obama didn't do much to curtail it either (quite the opposite, actually).

Also, those people weren't protesting for greater restrictions and penalties for police, as has been happening recently.

People also weren't as angry because we hadn't had a recession in years, and people hadn't seen video of police shooting and beating innocent people, then read about those police receiving little to no punishment.

Things have been getting worse for a while now.

Are there police transgressions? Of course, but I wouldn't paint the majority of police with that description.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Most cities have body cams. In fact, every other large city in the country uses body cams. So yes, EVERY other city is doing more than Portland.

High definition cameras do not need to zero in on anything. And no, a plane over the city is not expensive. Cities in this country have done this all day every day for years at a time. They do this to catch drug dealers. This is not new technology. This is not expensive technology.

If this is as big a problem as you and the police want us to believe it should certainly be a bigger deal than some drug dealer.

Yeah, if you have evidence that somebody interfered with police I'm fine with arresting them. But doing it without evidence will just be a waste of time. And no amount of bitching is going to change that.

The police are responsible for gathering evidence to keep order. They are doing neither and things are out of control because they are not doing their jobs. I'm not paying anybody else, so I can't hold them accountable.

once again. A body cam only works if that person has a visual of the crime from the outset.

yes a plane to fly in the air is expensive.

and again no. Regular law enforcement is not doing that. The dea is not local police enforcement. Its a fed entity.

Show me any local city police that use plane drones to capture vandals. Ill be waiting.......
Not dea. And not as a test start up. Im saying this is how they have been doing it. What city police force?


again. Should they use cameras? Yes.

will they help? Probably.

what will also help? The protestors not hindering the investigation for evidence.
And this is the point of contention i have with your stance. You are willing to go way out of the way and make evidence gathering harder by supporting those hindering the investigation.

thats the flaw.

You seem to think this isnt happening or you are simply ignoring it.

thats the flaw.

you refusal to acknowledge how difficult it will be to do what your saying in a crowd trying to hinder them from doing what you are saying.

I see you didnt answer my question about one to one ratio or the plain clothed cop being outed.
A one to one ratio of cops would be very expensive on the payroll.
You are simply dismissing things to maintain your assertion that the cops are all failing and protestors and rioters are all 100% in the right until evidence is gathered.

thats simply wrong. No matter how you try to spin it. If you cant hold the protestors responsible for hindering the gathering of evidence you demand, then you wrong.

Again there are multiple sects at fault. You refuse to acknowledge that and think its all a cop issue.
There is such a thing as unwritten human laws of rights?

If you think its fine for one human to not speak up against another doing wrong regardless if thats the cops job or not, i have no clue what to tell you.
If you dont think there are people downtown actively trying to curtail the cops jobs, again i dont know what to tell ya....

ive got a bridge for sale?

 

[Orion Bailey]

When officers try to go through a crowd to get at a criminal and they push back on the cops, what evidence do you need??

its been caught on video alot. Some people only see what they want to see though.

i mean imagine being a person who grew up wanting to help people. You becoem a cop. Your told to go outside and protect a building from vandalism. While protecting the building you recieve a never ending onslaught of vulgar hateful words screamed at you right in your face??

cops are human too. Not Gods.
They have emotions too.
Not all cops are bad.
Some people have been brainwashed into thinking this just like some people have been brainwashed into thinking all blacks are criminals.
No difference in the brainwashing. Just a different brain. Same wash....

 

[Strenuus]

As long as the ones who got into the capitol get properly punished and the sentators and that dumbass who was in that place being a fucking idiot gets prosecuted and held accountable....

 

[ABM]

As long as the ones who got into the capitol get properly punished and the sentators and that dumbass who was in that place being a fucking idiot gets prosecuted and held accountable....

Or what?

 

[Phatguysrule]

Are there police transgressions? Of course, but I wouldn't paint the majority of police with that description.

Certainly not. But the rest aren't doing enough to prevent it and change the culture.

 

[Phatguysrule]

once again. A body cam only works if that person has a visual of the crime from the outset.

yes a plane to fly in the air is expensive.

and again no. Regular law enforcement is not doing that. The dea is not local police enforcement. Its a fed entity.

Show me any local city police that use plane drones to capture vandals. Ill be waiting.......
Not dea. And not as a test start up. Im saying this is how they have been doing it. What city police force?


again. Should they use cameras? Yes.

will they help? Probably.

what will also help? The protestors not hindering the investigation for evidence.
And this is the point of contention i have with your stance. You are willing to go way out of the way and make evidence gathering harder by supporting those hindering the investigation.

thats the flaw.

You seem to think this isnt happening or you are simply ignoring it.

thats the flaw.

you refusal to acknowledge how difficult it will be to do what your saying in a crowd trying to hinder them from doing what you are saying.

I see you didnt answer my question about one to one ratio or the plain clothed cop being outed.
A one to one ratio of cops would be very expensive on the payroll.
You are simply dismissing things to maintain your assertion that the cops are all failing and protestors and rioters are all 100% in the right until evidence is gathered.

thats simply wrong. No matter how you try to spin it. If you cant hold the protestors responsible for hindering the gathering of evidence you demand, then you wrong.

Again there are multiple sects at fault. You refuse to acknowledge that and think its all a cop issue.
There is such a thing as unwritten human laws of rights?

If you think its fine for one human to not speak up against another doing wrong regardless if thats the cops job or not, i have no clue what to tell you.
If you dont think there are people downtown actively trying to curtail the cops jobs, again i dont know what to tell ya....

ive got a bridge for sale?

I didn't say all of the protestors are 100% in the right. I did say that anybody who actively interferes with police should be arrested and charged as long as there is evidence (body cams).

So your claims about my stance are 100% false. Which happens frequently with you. Then you wonder why people get frustrated with you...

The one to one ratio suggestion is just silly. It's obviously not necessary.

 

[Phatguysrule]

When officers try to go through a crowd to get at a criminal and they push back on the cops, what evidence do you need??

its been caught on video alot. Some people only see what they want to see though.

i mean imagine being a person who grew up wanting to help people. You becoem a cop. Your told to go outside and protect a building from vandalism. While protecting the building you recieve a never ending onslaught of vulgar hateful words screamed at you right in your face??

cops are human too. Not Gods.
They have emotions too.
Not all cops are bad.
Some people have been brainwashed into thinking this just like some people have been brainwashed into thinking all blacks are criminals.
No difference in the brainwashing. Just a different brain. Same wash....

If a police officer cannot get screamed at without lashing out physically they need to lose their job and never be allowed to carry a weapon for a living again.

 

[Orion Bailey]

If a police officer cannot get screamed at without lashing out physically they need to lose their job and never be allowed to carry a weapon for a living again.

and? Doesn't mean they still don't have to deal with it. Only a complete callous person would not see that cops are also human and see how difficult that can be. They didn't sign up for that.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I didn't say all of the protestors are 100% in the right. I did say that anybody who actively interferes with police should be arrested and charged as long as there is evidence (body cams).

So your claims about my stance are 100% false. Which happens frequently with you. Then you wonder why people get frustrated with you...

The one to one ratio suggestion is just silly. It's obviously not necessary.

The ratio thing isn't silly and again you didnt address it. If a plain clothes cop makes an arrest he is outed. You think he can continue being undercover make more arrests? If not, you need an undercover cop for each person breaking the law, correct?
How is that silly? Explain please....

people get frustrated with me because they have double standards i call out and they cant handle it. Much like you.

Cops should hold their own accountable.
But im okay with allowing protestors to protect criminals and make it harder for cops to do their job.

Im sorry it frustrates you so, that i point out holes in your stance and you get mad instead of look at it from the other side. I cant control your anger or frustrations. Thats for you to handle. Pawning your issues off on me like you try to do with everything else ( make excuses for criminals) isnt gonna fly with me.

Excuses excuses excuses.

get out of the way and let the cops do their jobs. Cameras or no cameras, or your also a criminal. Period.

you can continue to try to belittle me instead of just have a conversation about the details of your position that have holes.

And again, dont think they have holes or you would have answered my questions about dea and other city using drones to capture vandals.

Instead of getting frustrated because you dont have these answers, maybe just admit your stance isnt foolproof.


i mean its really not a compelling argument from you that i frustrate you yet you cant answer the questions being asked...

Ill leave you and your frustrations be, as that tells me you will not answer the questions and will only continue to belittle me.

You say i don't read yet, you continually dismiss half of my posts including the questions, and continually make it about me. When i respond in kind, you will claim I'm a drama queen or something.

This scene has been played out many times.

You have quite the double standards sir.

Say what you want. Its gonna be taken with a grain of salt until you get past the personal issues and just answer the questions being asked of your ideas.

I understand when someone questions your ideas it can be taken personally for those not mature enough to understand their opinion is just an opinion and may be questioned.

Your inability to handle your ideas being questioned, ANSWER the questions without belittling, is a huge red flag... or should i say white flag.....

 

[jlprk]

ill just let you think you are right and move on....

Did you mean now or a week from now?

 

[Phatguysrule]

The ratio thing isn't silly and again you didnt address it. If a plain clothes cop makes an arrest he is outed. You think he can continue being undercover make more arrests? If not, you need an undercover cop for each person breaking the law, correct?
How is that silly? Explain please....

people get frustrated with me because they have double standards i call out and they cant handle it. Much like you.

Cops should hold their own accountable.
But im okay with allowing protestors to protect criminals and make it harder for cops to do their job.

Im sorry it frustrates you so, that i point out holes in your stance and you get mad instead of look at it from the other side. I cant control your anger or frustrations. Thats for you to handle. Pawning your issues off on me like you try to do with everything else ( make excuses for criminals) isnt gonna fly with me.

Excuses excuses excuses.

get out of the way and let the cops do their jobs. Cameras or no cameras, or your also a criminal. Period.

you can continue to try to belittle me instead of just have a conversation about the details of your position that have holes.

And again, dont think they have holes or you would have answered my questions about dea and other city using drones to capture vandals.

Instead of getting frustrated because you dont have these answers, maybe just admit your stance isnt foolproof.


i mean its really not a compelling argument from you that i frustrate you yet you cant answer the questions being asked...

Ill leave you and your frustrations be, as that tells me you will not answer the questions and will only continue to belittle me.

You say i don't read yet, you continually dismiss half of my posts including the questions, and continually make it about me. When i respond in kind, you will claim I'm a drama queen or something.

This scene has been played out many times.

You have quite the double standards sir.

Say what you want. Its gonna be taken with a grain of salt until you get past the personal issues and just answer the questions being asked of your ideas.

I understand when someone questions your ideas it can be taken personally for those not mature enough to understand their opinion is just an opinion and may be questioned.

Your inability to handle your ideas being questioned, ANSWER the questions without belittling, is a huge red flag... or should i say white flag.....

And again, you're still painting me with a stance I don't have, then telling me I have a double standard.

It's like conversing with a child... No, you would not need a police officer for every crime. Who cares if some people recognize a police officer? They aren't going to attack them. And if they did they'd get arrested. With video evidence, and be held as the criminal they are.

How am I ok with allowing protestors to protect criminals when I have said specifically, on multiple occasions, that police should arrest anybody who interferes WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE, so they can actually be charged?

Again, you giving me a position that I don’t have so that you can think you're somehow making a legitimate case. You're not.

None of your positions frustrate me, other than you flat out lying about my positions, then whining when I call you on it. Again, it's like conversing with a child.

"Boo hoo! Why do you have to be so mean?" is not something to be proud of when somebody calls you on being dishonest.

I don't pay the protestors. I pay the police. The only thing we can do to change the behavior of protestors is arrest the ones who break the law, and make sure we have enough evidence that they are charged and kept in jail.

The way we do that is to make sure the police are doing their job.

By refusing to wear body cameras Portland Police are doing less than every other major city to gather evidence, then you're in here whining about how the people they arrest keep getting let go.

This is childish. The police are the authority, with the responsibility to gather evidence. They are the ones to hold accountable for the lack of evidence they are providing.

Blaming criminals for committing crime when police refuse to gather evidence is insane. Blaming citizens for being unable to stop criminals from committing crime when the police refuse to gather evidence is insane.

You are literally making things up so you don't have to deal with reality of your poor stance, then whining when being called on it.

Of course you want to exit the conversation. You can't continue the conversation without making up more lies about my position.

The problem is you're so disillusioned in your support of obviously bad policy (hence the bootlicking remark) that you can't handle the idea that you've been so wrong so often.

 

[Phatguysrule]

and? Doesn't mean they still don't have to deal with it. Only a complete callous person would not see that cops are also human and see how difficult that can be. They didn't sign up for that.

Then they signed up under false pretenses. We definitely need to work on our police recruiting and hiring process.

As I've said before, that is definitely part of the solution.

 

[Hoopguru]

I have retired family and my wife, that spent 40 plus years in both teaching & local law enforcement. The tier 1 PERS for that long is very substantial. The unions, imo, are part of the problem when it comes to job performance, as tenure and solidarity take precedent over actual job improved performance. Both cops and teachers that do the basics, and some that under perform, are protected, and those that excel and offer more in performance results are treated the same. No incentives for superb achievement, all based on tenure.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Did you mean now or a week from now?

im now responding to people quoting me. Dont like it, the ignore button is right over there....

 

[Orion Bailey]

And again, you're still painting me with a stance I don't have, then telling me I have a double standard.

It's like conversing with a child... No, you would not need a police officer for every crime. Who cares if some people recognize a police officer? They aren't going to attack them. And if they did they'd get arrested. With video evidence, and be held as the criminal they are.

How am I ok with allowing protestors to protect criminals when I have said specifically, on multiple occasions, that police should arrest anybody who interferes WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE, so they can actually be charged?

Again, you giving me a position that I don’t have so that you can think you're somehow making a legitimate case. You're not.

None of your positions frustrate me, other than you flat out lying about my positions, then whining when I call you on it. Again, it's like conversing with a child.

"Boo hoo! Why do you have to be so mean?" is not something to be proud of when somebody calls you on being dishonest.

I don't pay the protestors. I pay the police. The only thing we can do to change the behavior of protestors is arrest the ones who break the law, and make sure we have enough evidence that they are charged and kept in jail.

The way we do that is to make sure the police are doing their job.

By refusing to wear body cameras Portland Police are doing less than every other major city to gather evidence, then you're in here whining about how the people they arrest keep getting let go.

This is childish. The police are the authority, with the responsibility to gather evidence. They are the ones to hold accountable for the lack of evidence they are providing.

Blaming criminals for committing crime when police refuse to gather evidence is insane. Blaming citizens for being unable to stop criminals from committing crime when the police refuse to gather evidence is insane.

You are literally making things up so you don't have to deal with reality of your poor stance, then whining when being called on it.

Of course you want to exit the conversation. You can't continue the conversation without making up more lies about my position.

The problem is you're so disillusioned in your support of obviously bad policy (hence the bootlicking remark) that you can't handle the idea that you've been so wrong so often.

jesus. You cant go one paragraph without belittling.

You cant provide quality answers for the questions asked.
End of story....
unless you care to continue to spin cirlces, not address the questions ive had and just continue to make it about me instead of your stances and my wuestions about them.

your right it is like dealing with a child who simply cant answer questions without getting frustrated and become insulting.
Your whole post needs one of these:
a mirror for you to look into.

you cant handle your opinion being questioned.
Period.
but then call others children.

Just wow....

i AM going to exit the conversation now. And you can think what you want, but ill let you know its becuase you are simply unable to have a respectful discussion when your opinions are questioned.
Proof is in the posts.

You cant come up with an answer for my rebuttal to your idea other than to insult me.

its okay though. I forgive you.

 

[Phatguysrule]

jesus. You cant go one paragraph without belittling.

You cant provide quality answers for the questions asked.
End of story....
unless you care to continue to spin cirlces, not address the questions ive had and just continue to make it about me instead of your stances and my wuestions about them.

your right it is like dealing with a child who simply cant answer questions without getting frustrated and become insulting.
Your whole post needs one of these:
a mirror for you to look into.

you cant handle your opinion being questioned.
Period.
but then call others children.

Just wow....

i AM going to exit the conversation now. And you can think what you want, but ill let you know its becuase you are simply unable to have a respectful discussion when your opinions are questioned.
Proof is in the posts.

You cant come up with an answer for my rebuttal to your idea other than to insult me.

its okay though. I forgive you.

Quit lying about my position and I'll quit calling you out for it. Very simple.

Any specific question related to anything I've actually said or a stance I've actually taken I'm happy to answer.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I have retired family and my wife, that spent 40 plus years in both teaching local law enforcement. The tier 1 PERS for that long is very substantial. The unions, imo, are part of the problem when it comes to job performance, as tenure and solidarity take precedent over actual job improved performance. Both cops and teachers that do the basics, and some that under perform, are protected, and those that excel and offer more in performance results are treated the same. No incentives for superb achievement, all based on tenure.

Excellent post. I couldn't agree more.

The institutions we have put in place to ensure a well trained and properly motivated police force are failing. In doing so we are getting a less effective police force.

These institutional failings need to be addressed.

Which is exactly what the protests are about.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Quit lying about my position and I'll quit calling you out for it. Very simple.

Any specific question related to anything I've actually said or a stance I've actually taken I'm happy to answer.

If it quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck...

so you want me to go back and recopy and paste all the questions you didnt answer???

Talk about a cop out man. Lol. Im not interested in repeating the questions you avoided the first time. They are all up in my posts.
remove the red and you will see them.

 

[Phatguysrule]

If it quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck...

so you want me to go back and recopy and paste all the questions you didnt answer???

Talk about a cop out man. Lol. Im not interested in repeating the questions you avoided the first time. They are all up in my posts.
remove the red and you will see them.

I've already answered any of your legit questions. If you don't want to pick the legit questions from the lies just stop lying.

Pretty simple.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I've already answered any of your legit questions. If you don't want to pick the legit questions from the lies just stop lying.

Pretty simple.

your right. Quack quack.


Pretty simple. Cop out.

Pretty funny though.

You cant address my points, one of which that they all wear the same attire and wear masks, so a camera cant identify anyone without someone physically removing the mask.
you said undercover coos with cameras. I posed the issue with that and you said its silly. its not.
cops are not going to go undercover in a riot without knowing they have backup and be safe.
Yes, as a cop i would not trust the crowd to not attack.
Have you not seen what happened at the white house?
Civilians while raging, can kill cops.
So while you play your “silly opinion” game. Im bringing a real legit potential scenario you deem silly even though it has happened!!!

I laid out my timeline scenario of your take vs mine as a criminal and how fast they can smash and run.
You never addressed it and continued your quacking.

you are right. It is pretty simple. Quack quack.

I asked you to show me any local police force who uses drones to capture vandals as you say. You haven't provided shit.
You said it doesnt cost money, but Flying planes costs money. Fuel. Etc.
the forcecis already over budget while looking at funding cuts. Yet you want them to spend more money to observe from a distance. wheres the money come from?

You never addressed that. You just said its not expensive. I said if so, how come not all cities do it? You dismissed that.

You posted one link going after NONMASKED drug dealers. From the dea. Not local police force. Apples to oranges. Drug dealers arent all dressed the same, masked and in large crowds.

your examples simply don't fly because they are not the same.
You have dismissed the legit questions above as silly and you want to be taken seriously????

quack quack. Its Actually extremely simple.

i asked you questions and posed my opinion of holes in your opinion.
You deemed my opinion silly aNd not worthy of answering.
That is nothing other than a straight up cop out.
Zero respect for that shit......

or i could go down your road and just say you are just silly and are just some internet dude on a forum all day saying shit like he knows how to run a police force better than anyone else.
Why are you online typing your opinions all day then? Why arent you out there running for commissioner?

your ideas as sooo foolproof aNd anyone who thinks differently is just silly, hell you have all the answers!
Id vote for you! Why dont you get off your ass, go downtown and assert your vast knowledge, so superior to all the other silly opinions and get some shit done then??

stop typing what should be done and go make it happen if its so easy.

Yeah... didnt think so...

its just easy to sit at the computer spat off your opinions as the only ones correct snd dismiss any other as silly.

Not sure ive ever run into such arrogance....

Now que your response... “your silly and a liar. Your not legit....”


Lol.

 

[Lanny]

When officers try to go through a crowd to get at a criminal and they push back on the cops, what evidence do you need??

its been caught on video alot. Some people only see what they want to see though.

i mean imagine being a person who grew up wanting to help people. You becoem a cop. Your told to go outside and protect a building from vandalism. While protecting the building you recieve a never ending onslaught of vulgar hateful words screamed at you right in your face??

cops are human too. Not Gods.
They have emotions too.
Not all cops are bad.
Some people have been brainwashed into thinking this just like some people have been brainwashed into thinking all blacks are criminals.
No difference in the brainwashing. Just a different brain. Same wash....

If a police officer can't handle that then he ought to be in another line of work.

 

[Phatguysrule]

your right. Quack quack.


Pretty simple. Cop out.

Pretty funny though.

You cant address my points, one of which that they all wear the same attire and wear masks, so a camera cant identify anyone without someone physically removing the mask. .

If you have the act on video, and keep the perp on video all the way until the arrest and demasking it doesn't matter what they wear.

This isn't a movie like "Now You See Me".

Have you not seen what happened at the white house?
Civilians while raging, can kill cops.
So while you play your “silly opinion” game. Im bringing a real legit potential scenario you deem silly even though it has happened!!!

Slightly different crowd here. In a year of protesting I have yet to see a shamen with handcuffs trying to find a vegan sacrifice...

I laid out my timeline scenario of your take vs mine as a criminal and how fast they can smash and run.
You never addressed it and continued your quacking.

Once again, it doesn't matter if it's all on video...

I asked you to show me any local police force who uses drones to capture vandals as you say. You haven't provided shit.
You said it doesnt cost money, but Flying planes costs money. Fuel. Etc.
the forcecis already over budget while looking at funding cuts. Yet you want them to spend more money to observe from a distance. wheres the money come from?

Here's a city with the funds to fly a plane... Oh look, it's Portland. Now imagine if they had the body cams (which have been authorized and funded) to bring the whole picture together.

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/in...ests/283-1aab235b-092f-4430-ab17-632e8fb7c8a7

You posted one link going after NONMASKED drug dealers. From the dea. Not local police force. Apples to oranges. Drug dealers arent all dressed the same, masked and in large crowds.

And you obviously didn't pay much attention to that link I sent about overhead surveillance, because the video isn't high enough resolution to see a face anyway. But it was used as evidence to catch and convict theives, murderers, etc when combined with video on the ground.

or i could go down your road and just say you are just silly and are just some internet dude on a forum all day saying shit like he knows how to run a police force better than anyone else.
Why are you online typing your opinions all day then? Why arent you out there running for commissioner?

your ideas as sooo foolproof aNd anyone who thinks differently is just silly, hell you have all the answers!
Id vote for you! Why dont you get off your ass, go downtown and assert your vast knowledge, so superior to all the other silly opinions and get some shit done then??

stop typing what should be done and go make it happen if its so easy.

Yeah... didnt think so...

its just easy to sit at the computer spat off your opinions as the only ones correct snd dismiss any other as silly.

Not sure ive ever run into such arrogance....

Now que your response... “your silly and a liar. Your not legit....”


Lol.

LOL. I'm not diplomatic enough to be a successful politician, I'm too honest. But thanks for the vote of confidence.

You're making the case that none of this is important enough to get on video, yet you've been in here complaining about it all year?