Politics Multiple sources confirm AOC owns a Tesla, parked it illegally in front of the Whole Foods

[Orion Bailey]

It also says outstanding fines. Not paying a fine for a non-criminal matter should not result in not being allowed to vote.

Not paying a fine is a violation of a court order and pushes status into criminal. Most all courts offer an individual to pay the fine with time served if they cant afford it. So to not get a fine paid one way or another is evading the law. I agree that someone evading the law should not be allowed to vote until they are in good standing with the law.

We didn't get rid of poll taxes, we just reinvented them.

So unpaid fines are now taxes?


Shit, we may as well let all nonviolent criminals get away with anything. The law is the law. IF you have a fine that isn't paid you are in violation of a court order. It isnt a tax...

Is it me or is common sense trying to be reinvented here?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Not paying a fine is a violation of a court order and pushes status into criminal. Most all courts offer an individual to pay the fine with time served if they cant afford it. So to not get a fine paid one way or another is evading the law. I agree that someone evading the law should not be allowed to vote until they are in good standing with the law.

And I completely disagree. Not paying a noncriminal fine should not be a jailable offense. That's a collection issue, not a criminal one.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

So unpaid fines are now taxes?


Shit, we may as well let all nonviolent criminals get away with anything. The law is the law. IF you have a fine that isn't paid you are in violation of a court order. It isnt a tax...

Is it me or is common sense trying to be reinvented here?

You're conflating a nonviolent crime with a noncriminal civil fine.

 

[Orion Bailey]

And I completely disagree. Not paying a noncriminal fine should not be a jailable offense. That's a collection issue, not a criminal one.

Who said it was a jailable offense? I know I didn't, so not sure of the point yo are trying to make.

I said the guilty party has the OPTION to serve time to pay the fine. Until the violation is cleared, they are still in violation of a court order.

I should ask though, are we discussing civil court or criminal? If a court orders a defendant to pay a plaintiff or vice versa over a private dispute, that's different than a court issuing a fine for the violation of a law. Like speeding.

If you violate the law, clear your shit up. Period. You cant vote until you do. Seems fair to me.

This is not fair if it is a civil court ruling.

All my opinons of course.

 

[Orion Bailey]

You're conflating a nonviolent crime with a noncriminal civil fine.

Okay, so states issue warrants for unpaid civil fines?

States will not issue an ID for an unpaid civil fine?


I don't think i'm conflating anything, I dont think you clarified.

So who gets their drivers license suspended or gets a warrant out for an unpaid non criminal court fine?

I did not see this clarified in anything you posts and the mention of warrant suggests fines are for unpaid criminal rulings. NOT civil non criminal.

Can you please point out where it specifies someone not paying a legal ruling fine on a car accident insurance claim, can have a warrant issued and drivers license suspended for not paying? Its my understanding that an individual can then only sue the person who owes the civil ruling to go after assets?

 

[Orion Bailey]

you are kinda all over the map with this....

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Who said it was a jailable offense? I know I didn't, so not sure of the point yo are trying to make.

I said the guilty party has the OPTION to serve time to pay the fine. Until the violation is cleared, they are still in violation of a court order.

I should ask though, are we discussing civil court or criminal? If a court orders a defendant to pay a plaintiff or vice versa over a private dispute, that's different than a court issuing a fine for the violation of a law. Like speeding.

If you violate the law, clear your shit up. Period. You cant vote until you do. Seems fair to me.

This is not fair if it is a civil court ruling.

All my opinons of course.

You said this.

Most all courts offer an individual to pay the fine with time served if they cant afford it.

This entire time I've been talking about civil court. I've been very clear on that.

In some municipalities not paying a civil fine such as a traffic infraction can result in your license being suspended. And in some municipalities if your license has been suspended over unpaid fines you can not get an ID or have your license reinstated until those fines have been paid. No valid ID means you can't vote.

There are traffic infractions and there are traffic laws. There is no time served for infractions. Civil collections should not be reason to lose voting rights. Failure to pay a civil fine should not be crime.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

you are kinda all over the map with this....

No.

 

[Orion Bailey]

You said this.



This entire time I've been talking about civil court. I've been very clear on that.

In some municipalities not paying a civil fine such as a traffic infraction can result in your license being suspended. And in some municipalities if your license has been suspended over unpaid fines you can not get an ID or have your license reinstated until those fines have been paid. No valid ID means you can't vote.

There are traffic infractions and there are traffic laws. There is no time served for infractions. Civil collections should not be reason to lose voting rights. Failure to pay a civil fine should not be crime.

But in your copied links none of that say anything about civil suits. What did I miss? A traffic infraction is a violation of law. Not someone suing another person and winning over the neighbors dog pissing on the other niehgbors flowerbeds and killing the garden.

So you broke the law and dont want to pay the fine and are cry about not being able to get an ID to vote might be talking abotu civil suits, not traffic violatons(which is a law break) that dontr get fined and turn criminal. Because your stance seems so off to me, I had to clarify and make sure you werent discussing a cicvil suit betwene two private parties.


You break the law ythe court deems a punishment. You dont adhere to the punishmnet, you get a warrant and serfve time and cant get an Id or vote until you correct the violation.

Seems fair to me.


Anything less is soft and aiding to our pussification. People need to be held more accountable for thier actions.

 

[RR7]

I understand fines aren't taxes. It was an offhand comment.
If a poor person gets a speeding ticket they can't afford, that shouldn't be an avenue to an inability to vote, in opinion.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

But in your copied links none of that say anything about civil suits. What did I miss? A traffic infraction is a violation of law. Not someone suing another person and winning over the neighbors dog pissing on the other niehgbors flowerbeds and killing the garden.

So you broke the law and dont want to pay the fine and are cry about not being able to get an ID to vote might be talking abotu civil suits, not traffic violatons(which is a law break) that dontr get fined and turn criminal. Because your stance seems so off to me, I had to clarify and make sure you werent discussing a cicvil suit betwene two private parties.


You break the law ythe court deems a punishment. You dont adhere to the punishmnet, you get a warrant and serfve time and cant get an Id or vote until you correct the violation.

Seems fair to me.


Anything less is soft and aiding to our pussification. People need to be held more accountable for thier actions.

You're the one who is and has been confused.

A civil fine is not a civil suit.

Traffic infractions are not jailable offenses. It's clear that you may want them to be to prevent "pussification" but they're not.

Parking tickets, no headlights, speeding, are examples of traffic infractions/civil fines.

None payment of those fines can have repercussions like having your license suspended or your car impounded.

That's perfectly acceptable. I have no problem with that.

But as I originally said and there are cases in some municipalities where after your license has been suspended for nonpayment of fines you will not be issued ID until those fines are paid. There are some municipalities where nonpayment of civil fines can result in a bench warrant. A bench warrant can also result in a person not being able to get ID. And in some states no valid ID means you can't vote.

Again, not all over the map, I've been very clear, nonpayment of civil fines should not result in losing your right to vote.

 

[Orion Bailey]

You're the one who is and has been confused.

A civil fine is not a civil suit.

Traffic infractions are not jailable offenses. It's clear that you may want them to be to prevent "pussification" but they're not.

Parking tickets, no headlights, speeding, are examples of traffic infractions/civil fines.

None payment of those fines can have repercussions like having your license suspended or your car impounded.

That's perfectly acceptable. I have no problem with that.

But as I originally said and there are cases in some municipalities where after your license has been suspended for nonpayment of fines you will not be issued ID until those fines are paid. There are some municipalities where nonpayment of civil fines can result in a bench warrant. A bench warrant can also result in a person not being able to get ID. And in some states no valid ID means you can't vote.

Again, not all over the map, I've been very clear, nonpayment of civil fines should not result in losing your right to vote.

Again, I never said they were jailable offenses. Though I did elude to Id be fine with it if they are avoiding paying the infraction. What I DID say is I believe they have the option to pay those off as time spent. Not currently, forced. An Option.

We simply disagree. NOW that its been clarified neither of us are referring to civil suits( Again I wanted to make sure because your opinion seems off to me, as im sure mine will be to yours).

A responsible person doesnt get to that point. A responsible person who cares about others gets the headlight fixed, so they arent a hazard on the road. Most judged and courts, if fixed by the court date, dismiss the fine. If a person doesnt have the sense enough to figure out the options to avoid having their license suspended for traffic vio0lations, then I dont want them voting...How Can I have faith its a responsibly informed vote when they cant figure out something as simple as avoiding a license suspension over a traffic violation?

Speeding"?: That's wreckless and potentially life threatening. Pay the fine or lose your license and ability to vote until you do so.

Seems drastic, but the soft love is enabling, as seen by the increased activities in Portland over the last year.

Do the crime pay the time. Or let them off and lets just become lawless.

"...Ill speed, not care, not [pay the traffic fines, complain when my license is suspended and I can no longer vote. But im responsible and care about others and should be allowed to vote!!! (even though Im willing to take others lives in my hands by speeding down the street)

 

[RR7]

I have a big issue with traffic violations leading to any potential of losing voting rights. The thought of that seems absurd to me. Especially when there is subjective enforcement of moving violations.
By imposing fines that could be difficult for low income earners to pay, and thus creating a system where they lose their ability to vote, is why I made my initial comment about the poll tax. Too poor to pay? Can't vote. Can afford to pay? Cool, you keep your right to vote.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I have a big issue with traffic violations leading to any potential of losing voting rights. The thought of that seems absurd to me. Especially when there is subjective enforcement of moving violations.
By imposing fines that could be difficult for low income earners to pay, and thus creating a system where they lose their ability to vote, is why I made my initial comment about the poll tax. Too poor to pay? Can't vote. Can afford to pay? Cool, you keep your right to vote.

Now there is an angle i didnt think about. People speed and get away with it. Speed traps. Subjective cops.
these are legit arguments to me.

Being too poor isnt a factor that should be considered though.
You can work fines off thru community service. I know. Ive done it.

 

[Lanny]

So from what I'm gathering, There is no law prohibiting someone form getting an ID with a suspended license. But if your license is suspended because you have a warrant, then you are unable to get an ID. I see no issue with that. If you have a warrant out for your arrest it is because you have been in violation of a court request or order, thus breaking the law. A that point, the individual has given up their voting rights by not following the procedure. Just like felons who cant vote.

I still see nothing about not being able to get an ID if a license has been suspended but the individual is a legal and is simply paying dues for a wrong. Only those with warrants.

I do like the first line saying warrants for your arrest can happen for a variety of reasons, and the first one given is admin mistakes. Not due procedure of being in violation of something.

That's petty funny and misleading, leaving it seem as though most warrants are issued in error.

Anyhow. Nothing stating a person cant get an ID to vote with a suspended license.

The solution is simple, take away the driver's license as required and replace it with a state issued ID card that is not a driver's license.

 

[barfo]

Hey, if we can eliminate voting rights if you don't pay a parking ticket, how about other rights? 2nd amendment maybe?

barfo

 

[Orion Bailey]

The solution is simple, take away the driver's license as required and replace it with a state issued ID card that is not a driver's license.

What would be the cost of that?

 

[barfo]

Actually, there's no reason to have driver's licenses and ID cards be separate things nowadays. Anytime a cop pulls someone over, they run the DL through the computer, they don't need the card to say they have permission to drive. That could be coded in the record for the card.

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

Not paying a fine is a violation of a court order and pushes status into criminal. Most all courts offer an individual to pay the fine with time served if they cant afford it. So to not get a fine paid one way or another is evading the law. I agree that someone evading the law should not be allowed to vote until they are in good standing with the law.



So unpaid fines are now taxes?


Shit, we may as well let all nonviolent criminals get away with anything. The law is the law. IF you have a fine that isn't paid you are in violation of a court order. It isnt a tax...

Is it me or is common sense trying to be reinvented here?

People should not lose any right unless they are infringing on the rights of others. So violence or theft in high dollar amounts.

A person should lose no freedoms by refusing to pay a fine. However, that may impact your credit.

 

[Lanny]

What would be the cost of that?

The same as it is for others who want only an ID card and not a driver's license.

 

[Orion Bailey]

People should not lose any right unless they are infringing on the rights of others. So violence or theft in high dollar amounts.

A person should lose no freedoms by refusing to pay a fine. However, that may impact your credit.

ill discuss more indepth this weekend as we but my first thought is to define infringe.
To me its an infringement when someone is on my ass trying to force me to speed when im already at the speed limit. If that person passes me and gets a ticket for speeding and doesnt pay, they can suck it.
In a round about way they infringe on everyone and put everyones life in danger thst is in close proximity.

the issue is who was speeding unknowingly vs those who intentionally speed and make driving unsafe for others on the reg.

So in typing this, i think infringement needs to be clearly defined in many facets to determine what is a viable offense or not.

just remember. Im on the, been too leniant” side currently and think a whip should be cracked because we are getting soft. so thst may be prt of why im like, “ fuck it. Toss the book at them.”

 

[Phatguysrule]

ill discuss more indepth this weekend as we but my first thought is to define infringe.
To me its an infringement when someone is on my ass trying to force me to speed when im already at the speed limit. If that person passes me and gets a ticket for speeding and doesnt pay, they can suck it.
In a round about way they infringe on everyone and put everyones life in danger thst is in close proximity.

the issue is who was speeding unknowingly vs those who intentionally speed and make driving unsafe for others on the reg.

So in typing this, i think infringement needs to be clearly defined in many facets to determine what is a viable offense or not.

just remember. Im on the, been too leniant” side currently and think a whip should be cracked because we are getting soft. so thst may be prt of why im like, “ fuck it. Toss the book at them.”

I did define it.

violence or theft in high dollar amounts.

Your example doesn't even come close to qualifying. All you have to do is move out of the way and they can go around you.

If they were ramming your car that would rise to the level of violence and qualify.

The US has 1/4 of the world's prisoners and 1/25 of the world's population... We're not being too lenient.

 

[Lanny]

ill discuss more indepth this weekend as we but my first thought is to define infringe.
To me its an infringement when someone is on my ass trying to force me to speed when im already at the speed limit. If that person passes me and gets a ticket for speeding and doesnt pay, they can suck it.
In a round about way they infringe on everyone and put everyones life in danger thst is in close proximity.

the issue is who was speeding unknowingly vs those who intentionally speed and make driving unsafe for others on the reg.

So in typing this, i think infringement needs to be clearly defined in many facets to determine what is a viable offense or not.

just remember. Im on the, been too leniant” side currently and think a whip should be cracked because we are getting soft. so thst may be prt of why im like, “ fuck it. Toss the book at them.”

It all depends on which lane you're in.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

 

[RipCityDSCPL]

Next scandal will be that she doesn't actually look at the numbers on her plastics before recycling them.... so she recycles stuff that's not supposed to be recycled!

Other than 10 cents Oregon etc, I have no idea what you speak of.

 

[Natebishop3]

Other than 10 cents Oregon etc, I have no idea what you speak of.

https://www.almanac.com/content/which-plastics-are-recyclable-number

 

[RipCityDSCPL]

https://www.almanac.com/content/which-plastics-are-recyclable-number

Had no idea that was relevant to the consumer.

 

[Natebishop3]

Had no idea that was relevant to the consumer.

There's actually a lot of stuff you can't recycle, which just makes them toss the whole thing out.

 

[Lanny]

Other than 10 cents Oregon etc, I have no idea what you speak of.

Different plastics get recycled in different groups. Each group has it's own identifying number. Some recyclers don't take all groups, aka numbered plastics.
For a good explanation read this:
https://learn.eartheasy.com/articles/plastics-by-the-numbers/

 

[Chris Craig]

I'm not sure which version of him I like more: the passive cheeks turning hippy or the asshole with a mean streak.

I like that he is both. A chill peaceful dude, but he will also tell you what's up if you are being fake and shit. He was a man of action. I like that.