My Obamacare Taxes

[julius]

P

From what I understand, America sucks, has sucked for a long time, and will continue to suck.

no, you have it wrong. What the liberals have done and are doing to America make it suck

 

[Denny Crane]

P

no, you have it wrong. What the liberals have done and are doing to America make it suck

"liberals." And you got it right.

 

[RayDavies]

LOL! Don't worry, you won't have to declare bankruptcy. The ACA is just a weak workaround of you conservatives' hatred of helping others... we'll get to a single payer system someday, then you won't have to worry. Our healthcare system has been fucked forever- now we begin improving it, reducing costs, etc.

Nevermind that this is a Republican plan- the black guy is evil!

 

[Denny Crane]

LOL! Don't worry, you won't have to declare bankruptcy. The ACA is just a weak workaround of you conservatives' hatred of helping others... we'll get to a single payer system someday, then you won't have to worry. Our healthcare system has been fucked forever- now we begin improving it, reducing costs, etc.

Nevermind that this is a Republican plan- the black guy is evil!

When my kid was born in 1982, it cost $2800 for the deluxe birthing room at an excellent hospital, and the whole 9 yards.

The more govt. has been involved, the higher the cost has become.

 

[barfo]

When my kid was born in 1982, it cost $2800 for the deluxe birthing room at an excellent hospital, and the whole 9 yards.

The more govt. has been involved, the higher the cost has become.

How much more is government involved in your childbirth today? Was the $2800 what you paid, or the total cost? How much did this year's kid cost you? What's the origin of the phrase 'the whole 9 yards'?

barfo

 

[BrianFromWA]

shipbuilding

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

When my kid was born in 1982, it cost $2800 for the deluxe birthing room at an excellent hospital, and the whole 9 yards.

The more govt. has been involved, the higher the cost has become.

In 1981 we had our daughter at a birthing cabin in the woods and the total cost, paid for my me, was about $900. I did a LeBoyer bath and all that stuff.

 

[Denny Crane]

How much more is government involved in your childbirth today? Was the $2800 what you paid, or the total cost? How much did this year's kid cost you? What's the origin of the phrase 'the whole 9 yards'?

barfo

Total cost. That was the bill for 2 days, the birthing suite, doctor bill, nurses, etc.

The birthing suite was like a deluxe hotel room. It cost quite a bit more than the lower cost options.

Something like this:
http://www.cedars-sinai.edu/Patient...gy/Patient-Guide/Deluxe-Maternity-Suites.aspx

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124165279035493687.html

Bringing my newborn son home was a joy. Figuring out the hospital bill wasn't.

Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles provided excellent care and thoughtful treatment during my uncomplicated traditional delivery in December. Then the invoices started coming. The hospital sent one for me, and another for my baby. The doctors billed separately. The total charge for three days: $36,625.



(Costs $3100 or $3700/day on top of doctor bill, nurses, medicines, care for the child, etc.)

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Total cost. That was the bill for 2 days, the birthing suite, doctor bill, nurses, etc.

The birthing suite was like a deluxe hotel room. It cost quite a bit more than the lower cost options.

Something like this:
http://www.cedars-sinai.edu/Patient...gy/Patient-Guide/Deluxe-Maternity-Suites.aspx

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124165279035493687.html

Bringing my newborn son home was a joy. Figuring out the hospital bill wasn't.

Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles provided excellent care and thoughtful treatment during my uncomplicated traditional delivery in December. Then the invoices started coming. The hospital sent one for me, and another for my baby. The doctors billed separately. The total charge for three days: $36,625.



(Costs $3100 or $3700/day on top of doctor bill, nurses, medicines, care for the child, etc.)

You can get $50,000 for a white baby on the internet so you're still almost $14,000 ahead!

Sell the kid, invest the profits, retire early!

 

[barfo]

Total cost. That was the bill for 2 days, the birthing suite, doctor bill, nurses, etc.

The birthing suite was like a deluxe hotel room. It cost quite a bit more than the lower cost options.

Something like this:
http://www.cedars-sinai.edu/Patient...gy/Patient-Guide/Deluxe-Maternity-Suites.aspx

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124165279035493687.html

Bringing my newborn son home was a joy. Figuring out the hospital bill wasn't.

Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles provided excellent care and thoughtful treatment during my uncomplicated traditional delivery in December. Then the invoices started coming. The hospital sent one for me, and another for my baby. The doctors billed separately. The total charge for three days: $36,625.



(Costs $3100 or $3700/day on top of doctor bill, nurses, medicines, care for the child, etc.)

Ok. So what part of that is government's fault, and why?

barfo

 

[VanillaGorilla]

P

no, you have it wrong. What the liberals have done and are doing to America make it suck

I don't think so

 

[Denny Crane]

Ok. So what part of that is government's fault, and why?

barfo

Wherever govt. has been involved, things don't turn out as expected. And they turn out for the worse.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Just claim that you're here illegally and all of your healthcare will be provided for you.

GREAT idea.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Wherever govt. has been involved, things don't turn out as expected. And they turn out for the worse.

I think government's heart is in the right place, but generally people's greed (ie, fraud) and government ever expanding programs to where they were never intended are the main problems.

 

[barfo]

Wherever govt. has been involved, things don't turn out as expected. And they turn out for the worse.

I think you are evading the question. How is government more involved in childbirth than it was in 1982?

When my kid was born in 1982, it cost $2800 for the deluxe birthing room at an excellent hospital, and the whole 9 yards.

The more govt. has been involved, the higher the cost has become.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

I think you are evading the question. How is government more involved in childbirth than it was in 1982?



barfo

The govt. book of regulations has gone from 800,000 pages to millions of pages. You can't regulate a market and expect it to act like a rational market.

 

[barfo]

The govt. book of regulations has gone from 800,000 pages to millions of pages. You can't regulate a market and expect it to act like a rational market.

There are millions of pages of regulations on childbirth? Hard to believe.

And, of course, if you are trying to assign any of the price differential between childbirth in 1982 and 2012 to PPACA, you are barking up a tree that is barely sprouted.

There may be government regulations that have increased the cost of childbirth since 1982, but you haven't made the case that there are.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

There are millions of pages of regulations on childbirth? Hard to believe.

And, of course, if you are trying to assign any of the price differential between childbirth in 1982 and 2012 to PPACA, you are barking up a tree that is barely sprouted.

There may be government regulations that have increased the cost of childbirth since 1982, but you haven't made the case that there are.

barfo

What makes you think the regulations have to be specific to child birth? They could be related to litigation, insurance, hospitals, workplace, and so on. The bill is higher because of the cost of compliance with all the crap you love.

 

[barfo]

What makes you think the regulations have to be specific to child birth? They could be related to litigation, insurance, hospitals, workplace, and so on. The bill is higher because of the cost of compliance with all the crap you love.

You are just waving your hands and claiming it is the government. How about some actual evidence?

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

You are just waving your hands and claiming it is the government. How about some actual evidence?

barfo

How about you prove those sorts of things reduce costs?

 

[barfo]

How about you prove those sorts of things reduce costs?

I'm not the one who claimed that the cost of childbirth went up astronomically because of government, so the burden of proof doesn't fall on me. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

barfo

 

[MARIS61]

When my kid was born in 1982, it cost $2800 for the deluxe birthing room at an excellent hospital, and the whole 9 yards.

The greedier doctors and drug companies get, the higher the cost has become.

FIFY.

 

[Denny Crane]

I'm not the one who claimed that the cost of childbirth went up astronomically because of government, so the burden of proof doesn't fall on me. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

barfo

You're denying what's common sense. The burden of proof IS on you.

 

[barfo]

You're denying what's common sense. The burden of proof IS on you.

You mean, I'm denying the fable that you want desperately to believe, but apparently have no evidence for.

barfo

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

You mean, I'm denying the fable that you want desperately to believe, but apparently have no evidence for.

barfo

Barfo, I think some of it is just common sense. When we had our daughter we got a list of all the medical supplies we'd need from the doctor and where to buy it to save a LOT of money. Instructions on how to sterilize our own sheets and other materials we'd need. My daughter wanted to so the same thing and was told by her doctor that almost all what we did was now prevented by the government. We saved probably 75% of the cost of having a child and now that option is no longer available. Another thought is the lack of meaningful tort reform. An OBGYN now pays $80-200 thousand dollars per year for PL insurance. Those costs are directly passed along to parents. Meaningful tort reform would probably drop those rates by 75%.

Can someone quote you chapter & verse. yeah, probably, but it'd take a hell of a lot of research. Most of it just plain common sense that's right in front of your nose.

That said, there are other factors not related to government. But to be sure, some of it is directly attributable to government.

And frankly, I think you know it. You're a bright boy.

 

[Denny Crane]

You mean, I'm denying the fable that you want desperately to believe, but apparently have no evidence for.

barfo

http://blog.heritage.org/2010/09/22/red-tape-rises-again-cost-of-regulation-reaches-1-75-trillion/

Red Tape Rises Again: Cost of Regulation Reaches $1.75 Trillion

There's your link.

 

[barfo]

http://blog.heritage.org/2010/09/22/red-tape-rises-again-cost-of-regulation-reaches-1-75-trillion/

Red Tape Rises Again: Cost of Regulation Reaches $1.75 Trillion

There's your link.

That's useless to your argument, since it isn't specific to healthcare (much less birthing babies). How does that explain the fact that healthcare costs have risen much faster than other sectors of the economy? Answer: it doesn't.

barfo

 

[barfo]

Barfo, I think some of it is just common sense. When we had our daughter we got a list of all the medical supplies we'd need from the doctor and where to buy it to save a LOT of money. Instructions on how to sterilize our own sheets and other materials we'd need. My daughter wanted to so the same thing and was told by her doctor that almost all what we did was not prevented by the government. We saved probably 75% of the cost of having a child and now that option is no longer available.

Ok, kudos to you for actually addressing the point and trying to explain why the cost of birth has gone up. However, I doubt your last point, since it is still legal, so far as I know, to have babies at home with no medical oversight whatsoever.

Another thought is the lack of meaningful tort reform. An OBGYN now pays $80-200 thousand dollars per year for PL insurance. Those costs are directly passed along to parents. Meaningful tort reform would probably drop those rates by 75%.

Ok, but that doesn't address the root cause. After all, we didn't have tort reform in 1982 either.

Can someone quote you chapter & verse. yeah, probably, but it'd take a hell of a lot of research. Most of it just plain common sense that's right in front of your nose.

Unfortunately, as proven here many times, 'just plain common sense' is often wrong. Looking at actual evidence is a better way to decide these questions, even if it is a lot of work.

That said, there are other factors not related to government. But to be sure, some of it is directly attributable to government.

I agree, some fraction of it is attributable to the government. The question is how much. Denny seems to be saying 100%. I doubt that's anything close to correct.

barfo

 

[BrianFromWA]

FIFY.

Which is what ACA is neither affordable, nor addresses care, or makes anyone in the business act differently.

 

[Denny Crane]

That's useless to your argument, since it isn't specific to healthcare (much less birthing babies). How does that explain the fact that healthcare costs have risen much faster than other sectors of the economy? Answer: it doesn't.

barfo

http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/health-care-regulation-$169-billion-hidden-tax

barfo, you're making it too easy on me.

Since you can bribe a govt. official, they'll look the other way when you bill them $600 for a hammer or $1800 for a toilet seat.