My Problem With Nic

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I have said before Nic is very cocky and you can see it in every game.

Agreed. You can see the distaste on his face whenever a coach tries to give him instructions.

Also, people say how unselfish he is. I disagree. He looks for the pass, to the exclusion of all else (maybe for stats?), the defenders know it and it hurts the team as a whole with the resulting turnover. (2.7Tpg)
If he just played less forced, and didn't pass-over on attacking opportunities when they are there, the assists would still come - naturally when he draws defenders on his way to the hoop.
He would then be more of a help to the team as more of a scoring threat, plus would still get around the same amount of assists I believe. (5.3Apg)
 
"If a few Blazer fans can't avoid busting his chops about not being Kevin Durant, they should seriously consider being Thunder fans."

This adds nothing to the discussion

Besides, he's not "hands down" better than Parsons, and the starting SF position is weak in the western conference anyways. It's not saying much.
 
There isn't a better fit out there than what Nic does, outside the obvious - James, George, etc.

Melo would give you a legit 1st/2nd option but he is a total ball-stopper and doesn't make anyone around him better. He kills the flow with all his ISO's, something Rocket fans are experiencing and hating now with Harden.
 
"If a few Blazer fans can't avoid busting his chops about not being Kevin Durant, they should seriously consider being Thunder fans."

This adds nothing to the discussion

Besides, he's not "hands down" better than Parsons, and the starting SF position is weak in the western conference anyways. It's not saying much.

This adds nothing to the discussion. See how that works? Don't respond then. ;)
 
There isn't a better fit out there than what Nic does, outside the obvious - James, George, etc.

Melo would give you a legit 1st/2nd option but he is a total ball-stopper and doesn't make anyone around him better. He kills the flow with all his ISO's, something Rocket fans are experiencing and hating now with Harden.

At the same time I remember those Denver teams with Melo when they were killing it and really challenged the Lakers in the WCF (2008-2009 season). I think the difference there was the Nuggets had a true vet with Billups at the point that could control the offense.
 
This also adds nothing to the discussion. Try harder!

I actually squirted 12 year old single malt scotch out of my nose after reading this one, (it's my weekend) and laughed about as hard as I have all day! Thank you BF...you've added a few hours to my lifespan!
 
I actually squirted 12 year old single malt scotch out of my nose after reading this one, (it's my weekend) and laughed about as hard as I have all day! Thank you BF...you've added a few hours to my lifespan!
That was in response to the "Wow" post.
 
Sometimes people forget that the real rock star in European football (soccer) the nation is thrilled with a 0-0 draw and the goalie (guy who stopped the shot) is the rock star they aspire to be! My Parisian friends explained very clearly the difference in logic from the French perspective. They just take a different path to achieve the same goal but it's not linear in design. (Thank you Gille and Fabien for that bit of insight) Nic is first and foremost loves the stop and the assist..scoring is ok if it is part of the bigger picture, but it's not a priority!
 
It's really unfortunate that being candid gives so much fuel, in general, to the less-than-faithful, Blazer fan. This "nutshell" assessment of Batum is all shell and no nut. If Batum is invaluable, then why does him being candid about what it's like to be THE MAN that has to defend the best player on any given team, every GD game, and fill in where ever the team is lacking, create so much animus? It's like people don't realize this is what happens in every locker room around the NBA. We're lucky to have this much insight to what gets talked about in the locker room, and it's not a license to read into it and make silly assertions like some kind of "expert" body language PhD.

Letting Durant touch the ball is a recipe for a long night, period. Playing the 3rd game in 4 nights is a recipe for tired legs which leads to less than accurate shooting the farther one shoots from the hoop. Batum did what a lot of teams do with Durant and denied him the ball clear past the arc in the 2nd half. It's a gamble because it could back fire with some other player having more room to operate in the paint. Batum isn't able to rebound, or steal, or block, or help when he's 30 ft from the basket. It's OK if your teammates and coach tell you, that is what they need from him. It's not an indictment of Batum, or his mentality.

These questions didn't come up when Dame shot like crap time after time this season, and no doubt, his teammates and coach have had to talk to him too when he was struggling to keep doing what he's doing and even to be more aggressive.

Lest we also forget Batum is French. He's not a native speaker. When you're in an interview, and your English isn't solid, you speak in simple terms. There is less awareness for things that can be construed more than one way, and your responses are much less nuanced. If people can't identify with that, it's OK. But I can, and I'm saying get off his nut(s)shell. ;)

"less-than-faithful" ? You really are assuming a lot. Also, I never claimed to be an expert on body language. This is an issue I have had with Nicolas for the past 3 years, he disappears as a scorer and in my opinion he DOES need motivation/whatever you want to call it too often. You think your coach and teammates should have to tell you to assert yourself? That's your opinion, and I strongly disagree. He's been in the league long enough, he can see the score board, he doesn't get paid as much as he does to have the game explained to him on a regular basis.

Again i'd like to point out that I love Batum's overall game, but he could be much more prolific if he didn't accept sinking into the shadows/disappearing as often as he has throughout his entire career.
 
OLTL- you are reading too much into it. And there is a balance. You can play too aggressive. Batum is having a wonderful season and we are 25-7. Stop complaining. You're missing all the fun.


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I'm having fun. I love what this team is doing. I like Nic Batum. I have problems when I read a quote that says I 'decided' to come to play when I have noticed and many others have noticed he has been highly inconsistant. Is him being inconsistant due to him 'deciding' not to bring it? Or is it because he is just an average ball player. I can accept it if it comes down to him being average. I don't believe it is. I think he is better than the product he puts out. The biggest issue is this teams outcomes comes down to just a few points. So had put a lil more out on the defensive end or if he was more aggressive offensively, would we be sitting with 7 losses?

Not so sure.
 
Keep in mind that English isn't Nic's first language. Analyzing one word seems petty.
\

I thought about this and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt..but when he 'decided' it was time to play, you saw the difference last night. So I take him for what he said
 
Well, I'm going to take the EXACT opposite approach to the OP on this quote from Nic. No doubt the haters, doubters, negative Nancys, Chicken Littles and self-labeled "realists" will call me a homer (gasp!) and a Batum apologist, but fuck 'em. My team just won a game they really had no business winning, and this quote tells me EXACTLY why we won and OKC was powerless to stop us.

This quote from Nic embodies the unselfish nature of this team, why they have such great chemistry and why they are winning way more games than expected.

Basketball is a team sport played by five players per side. There is one ball that they all have to share. All five guys can't be assertive on offense at all times and try to take over offensively. That leads to selfish play, losses and hurt feelings. Nic knows he's not our number 1, or number 2 option and often not even number 3 option on offense - under normal circumstances. Rather than try to dominate the ball and get his own shots up, he plays the role of facilitator to create easy scoring opportunities for his teammates. He is second in the league in assists for forwards, trailing only 5-time MVP LeBron James.

Last night, OKC was throwing everything they had at options 1 and 2. They were double teaming Lillard 30 feet from the basket and forcing the ball out of his hands. They were throwing waves of defenders at LMA. I saw one highlight after the game last night where LaMarcus caught the ball in the paint and was immediately swarmed by FOUR OKC defenders.

Well, LMA and Lillard recognized this and told Nic they needed his help, that they needed him to assert himself more on offense to keep OKC honest on the double teams - or make them pay. What great communication between teammates and what a talented player that he was able to successfully accomplish what his team asked him to do. We/they are lucky to have such a versatile, talented player on our team. He is great at setting up his teammates when appropriate, but can also turn up his scoring when his teammates are struggling and ask for his help. The perfect TEAM player.

Oh, and he also completely shut Kevin Durant down in the 4th quarter last night. He single handedly held the best scorer in the entire NBA to 1 point in the 4th quarter of a close game. He was all over Durant denying him the ball all over the court. The 1 point Durant did get was on a deliberate foul with the Blazers up 3 and 8.2 seconds left in the game. His 4th quarter defense on Durant last night was a thing of pure beauty. So, rather than criticizing Batum for scoring all 15 of his points in the second half, after his teammates asked him for help at that end, while also shutting down the greatest offensive player in the world on the other end, I choose to praise Batum for being the ultimate teammate, stepping up big time on both offense and defense and helping his team pull out a miraculous road win while playing their 3rd game in 4 nights against a tough opponent that had only lost one previous game on their home court. Yeah, that was a long sentence, but no way do we win that game without Nic Batum and his great all around play on both ends of the court.

And seriously, no matter how spectacular this team plays, not matter how they win against all odds, someone in this forum will find something to bitch about. How about enjoying the win for a change and being thankful for our team's success. Maybe Kevin Durant should have asked one of his teammates to step up and help him last night. I'm glad he didn't. Instead, Durant got pissed at his teammates and yelled at his coach for not getting him the ball more in the 4th quarter. Last night was a perfect example of a very good team beating a great player. Basketball is still a team sport, played 5-on-5 and I am grateful we have such an unselfish team that works together so that the total exceeds the sum of the parts.

BNM

DINGDINGDINGDINGDING! WE HAVE A WINNER!
 
Sorry if this article has been posted.

"Zero points. 0-for-3 and three turnovers was his statline at the end of the first two quarters. Not to mention his assignment on the defensive end being Durant, was scoring at will with 22 first half points. Batum had disappeared. He was nonexistent and quite frankly, he was a burden to the team."

http://www.csnnw.com/blazers/batums-flight-arrives-second-half-thanks-jackson-help-durant

Well, thank goodness basketball games are 4 quarters long and not 2. With all the big 3rd quarters and amazing 4th quarter comebacks this team has had, imagine how much worse our record would be if the games were only 2 quarters long.

The author forgot to mention that Nic had all 3 of his assists in the first half. With 3 assists and only 3 FGA, Batum was clearly looking to play the role of facilitator, but because the OKC defense was targeting Lillard and Aldridge, it wasn't as effective as usual. As I said in my first post, his teammates recognized this, communicated it to Nic and he made the necessary adjustments. This is the definition of teamwork and why the Blazers came from 11 down at half time to win on the road.

Batum The Burden completely shut down Durant in the 4th quarter, outscored him 7-1 in the 4th and matched him with 15 second half points. Are people forgetting Kevin Duirant has been the most prolific scorer in the NBA over the past 5 and a half seasons - with 4 scoring titles and well on his way to his 5th? The Blazers would not have won that game without Nicolas Batum. They would not have won without his defense on Durant. They would not have won without his 15 second half points. What an odd time to criticize his play.

I still don't understand all the negativity after an improbable comeback win, on the road, the 3rd game in 4 nights, against the team with the best record in the league. Anyone who can find something to complain about after that WIN, should consider re-examining their priorities. I can't remember the last time I enjoyed a Trail Blazer's victory more. I watched it live with my daughter and have watched the replay of the 4th quarter 3 times since. I love this team, their resilience, the way they play unselfish team basketball, communicate with each other and never give up. I haven't enjoyed being a Blazers fan this much since the early 1990s. Those teams had more talent, but we haven't seen this brand of team basketball in Portland since 1977-78.

BNM
 
Yep. The game was a great comeback, which made it great fun. Maybe Batum engineered it that way on purpose.
 
Yep. The game was a great comeback, which made it great fun. Maybe Batum engineered it that way on purpose.

The French certainly have a flair for the dramatic!

BNM
 
I still don't understand all the negativity after an improbable comeback win, on the road, the 3rd game in 4 nights, against the team with the best record in the league. Anyone who can find something to complain about after that WIN, should consider re-examining their priorities. I can't remember the last time I enjoyed a Trail Blazer's victory more. I watched it live with my daughter and have watched the replay of the 4th quarter 3 times since. I love this team, their resilience, the way they play unselfish team basketball, communicate with each other and never give up. I haven't enjoyed being a Blazers fan this much since the early 1990s. Those teams had more talent, but we haven't seen this brand of team basketball in Portland since 1977-78.

BNM

Some of the negativity comes from those that have not played competitive/organized team basketball, or who lack an understanding of things like the CBA, offensive/defensive concepts, team chemistry, etc., and thus are able to ignore and reject explanations from more experienced or knowledgeable fans as to why things might not be worth complaining about.

But the need for attention seems to be the root of the most of the negativity. People relegated to complaining about anything and everything for the attention they seek, because they don't have anything else to contribute.

It's why when you (BNM) do take the time to explain things, you'll get responses from people like, "I don't care about that", or "that doesn't mater", or "that doesn't make sense" or simply no response at all that they understand what you wrote.

The Blazers are so good this year, and yet the negativity persists. Thankfully, its only coming from a few posters. And likely even less, just the same few under new forum names.

It could even be a SlyPokerDog move, like the guy they pay to dance by himself to try and and get encourage people to get on the dance floor, and posting comments like the dollar the Barista throws in the tip jar to let people know it's ok to put money in.

I ignore most of it, but it's too fun to pass up sometimes.
 
The issue some people(to include myself) have with Nic has nothing to do with offensive concepts. You generalize quite a bit from up there on your pedestal. What I point to is Batum's inconsistency, which is in not tied to the offensive scheme entirely. He disappears for long stretches, and this isn't a new thing nor is it blatant hating on the guy either. As i've stated many times, I love what he brings to the table in so many facets on the court. What I think he lacks is intensity, consistency, and self-motivation. When you've been in the league as long as he has, you're getting paid as much as Nic is, and you have the ability to shoot like he does, the amount of time he spends hiding in the shadows in inexcusable to ME. Does that mean it's a fact? No, it's called an opinion. I really have no idea where you get off thinking you're some basketball messiah that you truly aren't, especially to the point where you attempt to talk down to people.
 
The issue some people(to include myself) have with Nic has nothing to do with offensive concepts. You generalize quite a bit from up there on your pedestal. What I point to is Batum's inconsistency, which is in not tied to the offensive scheme entirely. He disappears for long stretches, and this isn't a new thing nor is it blatant hating on the guy either. As i've stated many times, I love what he brings to the table in so many facets on the court. What I think he lacks is intensity, consistency, and self-motivation. When you've been in the league as long as he has, you're getting paid as much as Nic is, and you have the ability to shoot like he does, the amount of time he spends hiding in the shadows in inexcusable to ME. Does that mean it's a fact? No, it's called an opinion. I really have no idea where you get off thinking you're some basketball messiah that you truly aren't, especially to the point where you attempt to talk down to people.

Nic is consistent in that he basically runs our offense. He might not look to score all the times, but that's really Lillard's role, or Aldridge, or Wes. Nic basically plays point guard for us.

I would also like to point out that he's averaging career highs in points, rebounds, and assists this season.

14 ppg, 6.3 rebounds, and 5.3 assists. I have no beef with him at all. He's a really good third or fourth option on our team. I think people need to stop trying to make him into something that he's not.
 
Nic is consistent in that he basically runs our offense. He might not look to score all the times, but that's really Lillard's role, or Aldridge, or Wes. Nic basically plays point guard for us.

I would also like to point out that he's averaging career highs in points, rebounds, and assists this season.

14 ppg, 6.3 rebounds, and 5.3 assists. I have no beef with him at all. He's a really good third or fourth option on our team. I think people need to stop trying to make him into something that he's not.

Again, i'm not dissatisfied with his overall game. His ability as a defender, facilitator, rebounder, turnover creator, all of those things are very nice. Having said that, do you really need your coach/teammates to come tell you to "turn it to 11", or should he be able to figure it out on his own? When your team is down double digits, the 3s aren't falling, percentages in general are down, as a veteran why would it take someone else notifying you to step up? MY perception is that he's content just playing his game, watching Lillard and co. continue to miss shots and not be assertive. Now I understand this also falls on Stotts for scheming, playcalling and what have you, but no one should have to coax assertiveness out of him. It's not JUST this quote that led me to this conclusion, it's been happening for years. Even with what he's giving the Blazers, Nic is an exceptional player, but I think he could be a lot better than he all ready is, honestly.
 
Nic is fine. People will always find faults with him for whatever reasons, but he helped win us a game a lot of us didn't think we would. Leave it at that, who gives a fuck how or who got him to get going. He did it.
 
Again, i'm not dissatisfied with his overall game. His ability as a defender, facilitator, rebounder, turnover creator, all of those things are very nice. Having said that, do you really need your coach/teammates to come tell you to "turn it to 11", or should he be able to figure it out on his own? When your team is down double digits, the 3s aren't falling, percentages in general are down, as a veteran why would it take someone else notifying you to step up? MY perception is that he's content just playing his game, watching Lillard and co. continue to miss shots and not be assertive. Now I understand this also falls on Stotts for scheming, playcalling and what have you, but no one should have to coax assertiveness out of him. It's not JUST this quote that led me to this conclusion, it's been happening for years. Even with what he's giving the Blazers, Nic is an exceptional player, but I think he could be a lot better than he all ready is, honestly.

The thing is, we all have flaws. This is just who Nic is. It's part of his personality. A lot of people take for granted something that comes easily to them, and basketball clearly comes very easily to Batum. The guy can do virtually anything on the court, when he puts his mind to it, and at times he just sort of coasts. That's just his personality. I would rather have a guy who CAN turn it on when the team needs him, rather than have a guy like Mo Williams who hurts the team by shutting out his teammates to get his own shot. It's pretty clear that Stotts has asked Nic to be the facilitator, and he has embraced that role completely. Like I said, I'm content with who he is and I'm happy with his progression. The dude is still only 25. He's having a great year.
 
The issue some people(to include myself) have with Nic has nothing to do with offensive concepts. You generalize quite a bit from up there on your pedestal. What I point to is Batum's inconsistency, which is in not tied to the offensive scheme entirely. He disappears for long stretches, and this isn't a new thing nor is it blatant hating on the guy either. As i've stated many times, I love what he brings to the table in so many facets on the court. What I think he lacks is intensity, consistency, and self-motivation. When you've been in the league as long as he has, you're getting paid as much as Nic is, and you have the ability to shoot like he does, the amount of time he spends hiding in the shadows in inexcusable to ME. Does that mean it's a fact? No, it's called an opinion. I really have no idea where you get off thinking you're some basketball messiah that you truly aren't, especially to the point where you attempt to talk down to people.

Adorable. I'm glad you think so highly of my opinions. ;)

To sum up your thoughts, you thought my post was about you personally (when it wasn't, but we now know it should have been) and you wanted to tell me that you know what you're talking about when it comes to basketball and Blazers, and more so that you think very highly of my opinions. And that the reason behind your complaining about Batum is that he makes millions and you don't. I had not considered that angle. Interesting.

I will remember to include that generalization for what could possibly compel a "Blazer fan" to read into a statement made by a French speaking player during an interview, and cast assumptions to disparage that player's effort, who just won a game, on a back-to-back and 3rd game in 4 nights, in which he shut down the most prolific scorer in the NBA for an entire quarter, and out scored him in the final 2 quarters... the next time someone wants to make a silly thread why they don't like Batum.
 
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Adorable. I'm glad you think so highly of my opinions. ;)

To sum up your thoughts, you thought my post was about you personally (when it wasn't, but we now know it should have been) and you wanted to tell me that you know what you're talking about when it comes to basketball and Blazers, and more so that you think very highly of my opinions. And that the reason behind your complaining about Batum is that he makes millions and you don't. I had not considered that angle. Interesting.

I will remember to include that generalization for what could possibly compel a "Blazer fan" to read into a statement made by a French speaking player during an interview, and cast assumptions to disparage that player's effort, who just won a game, on a back-to-back and 3rd game in 4 nights, in which he shut down the most prolific scorer in the NBA for an entire quarter, and out scored him in the final 2 quarters... the next time someone wants to make a silly thread why they don't like Batum.

Are you drunk? If you read literally anything i've posted on the subject you would know that i'm not pointing to this as an isolated incident. What Batum being a french speaking player has to do with any of this, i'll never know. It's not just what he said, it's what his teammates said to, and once again this isn't an earth shattering revelation, he's been like this for multiple years. He has made it a pattern to disappear and require outside motivation/pep talks/ what ever you want to call it to step up and take over a game. And no, I didn't think your post was about me personally, I responded as someone who is in the same school of thought as the OP as well as others.

Nate - I agree that it's just who Nic is, and i'm more than happy with how good he plays. I have almost(it's hard to commit to it when he shows flashes of being so dominant) accepted that he is what he is. What Batum does as a member of the Trailblazers is exceptional, what I think he's capable of perhaps he will never reach. Is that okay? To an extent sure, I can't be upset with how well he's playing but knowing that he could be even better is a bit bothersome to me.
 
Are you drunk? If you read literally anything i've posted on the subject you would know that i'm not pointing to this as an isolated incident. What Batum being a french speaking player has to do with any of this, i'll never know. It's not just what he said, it's what his teammates said to, and once again this isn't an earth shattering revelation, he's been like this for multiple years. He has made it a pattern to disappear and require outside motivation/pep talks/ what ever you want to call it to step up and take over a game. And no, I didn't think your post was about me personally, I responded as someone who is in the same school of thought as the OP as well as others.

Nate - I agree that it's just who Nic is, and i'm more than happy with how good he plays. I have almost(it's hard to commit to it when he shows flashes of being so dominant) accepted that he is what he is. What Batum does as a member of the Trailblazers is exceptional, what I think he's capable of perhaps he will never reach. Is that okay? To an extent sure, I can't be upset with how well he's playing but knowing that he could be even better is a bit bothersome to me.

I don't think we can know what level Nic will reach. I never thought Aldridge would do what he's currently doing this season. Nic is only 25 so there's still a lot of time left for him to take it to another level. I think I accepted Nic because we have Dame. We don't need Nic to be the #1 or the #2. He can just be Nic. We have our superstar duo.
 
I don't think we can know what level Nic will reach. I never thought Aldridge would do what he's currently doing this season. Nic is only 25 so there's still a lot of time left for him to take it to another level. I think I accepted Nic because we have Dame. We don't need Nic to be the #1 or the #2. He can just be Nic. We have our superstar duo.

I agree, and I know he's still young. I would concede that with the players that are on the team along side him, he does not NEED to be anything more than he currently is. What I would like to see is Nic knowing situationally WHEN and WHERE to turn it up a notch. Your team is down anywhere from 11-15 points, your team is not shooting a great percentage collectively, a star player(s) is resting on the bench, etc... These are the kinds of situations where he should take it upon himself to lead the charge, take more shots(I wouldn't fault him if he shot a piss poor percentage so long as he was at least putting some attempts up), proactively calling his own number via coach/teammates. He's capable of a lot more, particularly when option 1 or 2 aren't doing so hot, and i'd love to see him be more active in that sense.
 
I agree, and I know he's still young. I would concede that with the players that are on the team along side him, he does not NEED to be anything more than he currently is. What I would like to see is Nic knowing situationally WHEN and WHERE to turn it up a notch. Your team is down anywhere from 11-15 points, your team is not shooting a great percentage collectively, a star player(s) is resting on the bench, etc... These are the kinds of situations where he should take it upon himself to lead the charge, take more shots(I wouldn't fault him if he shot a piss poor percentage so long as he was at least putting some attempts up), proactively calling his own number via coach/teammates. He's capable of a lot more, particularly when option 1 or 2 aren't doing so hot, and i'd love to see him be more active in that sense.

That's a leadership trait my brother. Some guys have it, some don't. Damian Lillard is a guy who understands when his team needs him, but that's what makes him Dame. It's also key to point out that LA understood that it was his job as the leader of the team to take Nic aside and tell him the team needed him to step up. LA never would have done that a few years ago. He is progressing as a leader and that's a huge development for the team. We need to lock him up this summer. LA is the kind of guy that could be effective well into his 30's. Tim Duncan is going to play into his 40's. This team might not be a championship team this year, but I have all the faith in the world in Neil to keep adding pieces until this team wins a title.
 

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