My Zach Collins thoughts

[RipCityWarrior]

Sounds like his defense is on par with the teams expectations. Summer league is a guard oriented game, always has been. Not worries about Collins in the slightest. He will develop into a solid player from what I've seen from him. Especially if the blazers get an elite big man coach

 

[BBert]

Collins can do it all. Great footwork, great shooting including FT shooting, very good defender.

Right now he's a Nervous Nelly playing in front of his childhood friends and without a Point Guard. I can't remember an SL where I couldn't wait until our starting guards were out of the game so a PG scrub who won't come close to making the team could come in and not pass the ball to our bigs' knees.

As others have said, he's too thin due strictly to his age. Add some creatine and protein powder, sprinkle in a few hundred Nurkic back-ins and weight room sessions, and he'll be fine. When Biggie gets these things, he'll be a beast!

He'll get stronger just by bodying and pushing Nurk and Caleb down low in practice. Talk about a workout.

 

[GDiama]

Our summer league guards are so bad that i cannot really blame Zach and Caleb if they don't do well. I think garbage is not enough to describe our SL guards.

 

[0-Our!]

His performance so far has been disappointing to me and I was one of his greatest advocates. We've had journeymen euro-league big men look better than either Collins or Swanigan have thus far and not even get invited to pre-season.

Jumpin' the gun a bit? To be clear, this is not only directed towards u but anyone else that's already "given up" on OUR guys ALREADY? Do the answers to the following really need to b spelled out (WE ALL know the answers to the following questions, & YES I AM including u & the others I was referring to here Many posts by others have spelled out the following & then some)?

Is summer league for bigs?
Have all players that have played well in SL gone on to b superstars?
Have all those that have played poorly in SL gone on to b busts?
How old are Collins & Swanigan ESPECIALLY how old are they vs. THE bigs u are referring to?
Etc.

PATIENCE! I'm not pleased w/ both our rooks performances so far BUT I'm actually not disappointed either; I like the fact that they r getting run/experience (THIS is all I care about w/ SL ) regardless of play. I never take too much stock in how a player plays in SL w/ the exception of Tatum. Tatum shows u things that aren't about SL (granted he's posting some nice #'s), it's how he handles himself on/off court, personality, poise, footwork, etc. MOST players are NOT Tatum; w/ what I've seen of our guys before they even played in SL, I KNEW they weren't Tatum or even close, so however they played/what they've shown/will show in SL, these are just stepping stones & we've just got to be patient. I'm not @ all worried about OUR 2 guys; @ least give them 1/2 the time Mild LeoTARD has gotten before u give up on them.

 

[dviss1]

Neil tried to trade all three picks for Paul George and Pritchard turned him down and took a worse deal. What was he supposed to do, hold a gun to his head?

Short of Paul George, there weren't any other veterans available that would have made us contenders this season. Once IND turned us down, Neil went with Plan B - pick someone who has the potential to help in the future when GSW might actually be beatable.

Only time will tell if Collins was the right pick, but after losing out on the PG13 sweepstakes, it was the right strategy.

BNM

 

[Natebishop3]

What I don't understand is why these guards are so completely clueless about summer league.

Neil said it - we don't care about your offense. We already know you're not good enough offensively to be in the NBA or you already would be. They're looking to see if these guys can make NBA plays. See NBA passes. Play NBA defense. But nope... these morons are jacking up shots because they think if they hang 30 points in a summer league game, they'll get noticed.

If I was going into summer league as the point guard of the Blazers, and I saw that their top 2 picks were both power forwards, and their two returning guys are spot up shooters, I would be passing the damn ball. I'd be passing the damn ball all day. I'd be running the PNR. I'd be making sure I could do an entry pass into the post.

I don't get it.....

 

[0-Our!]

If you expected him to be NBA ready you're surely setting yourself up for disappointment. Kid is 19 years old with limited experience. Sorry to say he's another high upside project.

This isn't direct towards u, those whom this IS directed towards, u will know who u are

EXACTLY as HailBlazers said^, the chances Collins would b immediately ready are/were damn near zero; so as long as we knew/know ^, I wasn't/I'm not disappointed/surprised; I'm fine w/ everything.

IMO, the HUGE difference between Mild LeoTARD vs. Collins is that LeoTARD was a question of IF he'd develop (I'd say that's a BIG NOPE!) & Collins is a question of WHEN he develops

 

[Natebishop3]

Short of Paul George, there weren't any other veterans available that would have made us contenders this season

We don't know that.... we don't know what could have been available. I'm just saying I was hoping we'd acquire some consistent guys. We have so many young, inconsistent players on this team. Vonleh, Harkless, Crabbe, Meyers.... it's an entire team of young prospects with potential. I just want a couple of guys that I know will contribute on a nightly basis. Is that so much to ask?

 

[riverman]

In summer league big guys rarely even touch the ball...it's always a guard chuck fest like the D league was...as to Collins, he's worth the pick...he'll need weight training and cardio...he's gassed halfway through these games and only played 17 minutes a game in college...rookies get beat up playing summer league...I'm just glad neither of ours got injured....Crabbe did last year and CJ before that...they are playing with teammates that won't be Blazers and Collins has a high IQ for the game...he'll be fine...I think Swanigan will crack the rotation..let's at least give them a training camp with guys they'll play with all year and see how it works out..

 

[chzbrgr]

What I don't understand is why these guards are so completely clueless about summer league.

Neil said it - we don't care about your offense. We already know you're not good enough offensively to be in the NBA or you already would be. They're looking to see if these guys can make NBA plays. See NBA passes. Play NBA defense. But nope... these morons are jacking up shots because they think if they hang 30 points in a summer league game, they'll get noticed.

If I was going into summer league as the point guard of the Blazers, and I saw that their top 2 picks were both power forwards, and their two returning guys are spot up shooters, I would be passing the damn ball. I'd be passing the damn ball all day. I'd be running the PNR. I'd be making sure I could do an entry pass into the post.

I don't get it.....

Jake Layman is just trying to show he has earned some burn with the big guys. Same with Patty, same with RJ Hunter, same for all of the players on the roster right now they all know Portland has one non guaranteed contract (PC) they are trying to show they are worth a spot in another teams training camp or land a contracts overseas. Frankly, I think RJ Hunter has been much better than PC in the summer league this year and it might get Pat cut. But it's not hard to understand the mentality of some of these guys, they are playing for their livelihoods and dreams. I would say to them: ball out fellas, dont let the ball stick, play the right way, but if the shot is yours, take it.

 

[Natebishop3]

What does MM constantly bitch about? Defense.

Let me share some stats from Collins' two games so far.

3 blocks per game
2.5 steals per game
.32 DWS
71.5 DRtg
9.04 BLK%

He's doing this while playing 30 minutes per game and only averaging 3.5 fouls per game.

 

[Boob-No-More]

We don't know that.... we don't know what could have been available. I'm just saying I was hoping we'd acquire some consistent guys. We have so many young, inconsistent players on this team. Vonleh, Harkless, Crabbe, Meyers.... it's an entire team of young prospects with potential. I just want a couple of guys that I know will contribute on a nightly basis. Is that so much to ask?

No, but would you mortgage our future to obtain those guys? Guys like that may help us win a couple more regular season games, but would they help us get deeper in the playoffs with the way the West is stacked right now?

BNM

 

[Natebishop3]

No, but would you mortgage our future to obtain those guys? Guys like that may help us win a couple more regular season games, but would they help us get deeper in the playoffs with the way the West is stacked right now?

BNM

So if our prospects ever pan out, we'll be set?

 

[Wizard Mentor]

What does MM constantly bitch about? Defense.

Let me share some stats from Collins' two games so far.

3 blocks per game
2.5 steals per game
.32 DWS
71.5 DRtg
9.04 BLK%

He's doing this while playing 30 minutes per game and only averaging 3.5 fouls per game.

You think you can slow down the MM-Bitch Train? You can't handle the MM-Bitch Train!

Seriously, I wonder if it's a race thing. If they're white, they're suppose to shoot and score. If they're black they're suppose to be athletic and play defense. He's white, so it doesn't make sense (to some) to look at his defense and athleticism.

Collins is completely out of whack. I'm not worried at all.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I can't say I'm too worried about Collin's inability to get anything going on offense. He certainly won't be expected to score much in real games and I never really considered his addition to the roster as a short-term payoff. Anybody who was hoping for him to be a big-time contributor after 1 year of college as a backup, probably let themselves get a little too excited during the draft because Olshey moved up to get him (trades and 'action' always carries a little bit of built-in drama).

My guess is that he'll be lucky to sniff the court in the first 3 or 4 months of next season, probably getting garbage time minutes, unless the guys immediately in front of him are so god-awful, or injured that Stotts has no choice but to carve off a more substantial role for him.

If he still looks bad next year in Summer League, then go ahead and panic a little bit, but for now, I'll just cross my fingers and hope that Nurkic stays totally healthy and that Vonleh, Meyers or whomever, have a decent enough season that Collins doesn't have to be relied upon.

 

[Boob-No-More]

What does MM constantly bitch about? Defense.

Let me share some stats from Collins' two games so far.

3 blocks per game
2.5 steals per game
.32 DWS
71.5 DRtg
9.04 BLK%

He's doing this while playing 30 minutes per game and only averaging 3.5 fouls per game.

I don't just like this post, I LOVE it. Especially that last sentence. The summer league is usually a hack fest.

Little known historic fact: Greg Oden is the all time summer league leader in BLK/G at 4.0. He is also the all time summer league leader in PF/G at 9.0.

So, Collins is averaging 1 fewer block, but 5.5 fewer fouls than pre-injury Greg Oden, and the very same people that are constantly bitching about our poor defense are ready to label Collins a bad pick because he's not lighting up the box score and averaging 20 ppg.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

So if our prospects ever pan out, we'll be set?

If the goal is to become a contender, yes.

I would have absolutely given up all 3 picks + anyone and everyone not named Lillard, McCollum and Nurkic to land Paul George (so, basically, what Neil offered IND), because that would have immediately made us a contender, with our core 2 - 3 years younger than GSW and about a decade younger than CLE.

But, I would not give up a single 1st round pick in a deep draft to land a veteran role player that doesn't get us closer to contention now, and hurts us long term.

BNM

 

[Wizard Mentor]

My Zach Collins thoughts are....
Zach Collins can shoot the hell out of the ball.

In the video below, he shoots 61 times, missing only 5 times. Almost half of the shots are from 3. That's a 92%rate. This is not cherry picked, he's shooting 5, 6, 7 shots in a row in the video. Check it out for yourself. BTW, he rang the bell to end the blazers last practice before summer league game 1.

 

[Natebishop3]

My Zach Collins thoughts are....
Zach Collins can shoot the hell out of the ball.

In the video below, he shoots 61 times, missing only 5 times. Almost half of the shots are from 3. That's a 92%rate. This is not cherry picked, he's shooting 5, 6, 7 shots in a row in the video. Check it out for yourself. BTW, he rang the bell to end the blazers last practice before summer league game 1.

Being able to shoot in practice doesn't mean anything. It really doesn't. Sebastian Telfair would be an All-Star if shooting well in practice meant shooting well in games. Same with Victor Claver and Martell Webster and a million other guys that lack the confidence to hit a shot in live play.

 

[Reep]

Being able to shoot in practice doesn't mean anything. It really doesn't. Sebastian Telfair would be an All-Star if shooting well in practice meant shooting well in games. Same with Victor Claver and Martell Webster and a million other guys that lack the confidence to hit a shot in live play.

It's better than not being able to shoot in practice. It isn't the end, but it is a good start.

 

[Natebishop3]

It's better than not being able to shoot in practice. It isn't the end, but it is a good start.

I wish you guys could see an NBA practice, because practically everyone can shoot well in practice. It would blow you away.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Being able to shoot in practice doesn't mean anything. It really doesn't. Sebastian Telfair would be an All-Star if shooting well in practice meant shooting well in games. Same with Victor Claver and Martell Webster and a million other guys that lack the confidence to hit a shot in live play.

It doesn't mean ANYTHING? ANYTHING? Surely, it must mean SOMETHING. Is this what "going full retard" means?

How about this: let's have a challenge.
I'll give you 24 hours to find pre-draft videos of Victor Claver and Sebastian Telfair shooting anywhere near 56/61 in practice, half of which are 3s, and I'll add "I am Natebishop3s Bitch" in my sig for a month. If you can't, I'll add "Natebishop3 went full retard on me" in my sig for a month.

Agree?

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

I can't say I'm too worried about Collin's inability to get anything going on offense. He certainly won't be expected to score much in real games and I never really considered his addition to the roster as a short-term payoff. Anybody who was hoping for him to be a big-time contributor after 1 year of college as a backup, probably let themselves get a little too excited during the draft because Olshey moved up to get him (trades and 'action' always carries a little bit of built-in drama).

My guess is that he'll be lucky to sniff the court in the first 3 or 4 months of next season, probably getting garbage time minutes, unless the guys immediately in front of him are so god-awful, or injured that Stotts has no choice but to carve off a more substantial role for him.

If he still looks bad next year in Summer League, then go ahead and panic a little bit, but for now, I'll just cross my fingers and hope that Nurkic stays totally healthy and that Vonleh, Meyers or whomever, have a decent enough season that Collins doesn't have to be relied upon.

My thoughts as well, still upsetting for a top 10 pick. Also a long way from "I don't see why I can't be rookie of the year" but oh well, he's potentially the future of our team so let's pray it pans out.

 

[Natebishop3]

It doesn't mean ANYTHING? ANYTHING? Surely, it must mean SOMETHING. Is this what "going full retard" means?

How about this: let's have a challenge.
I'll give you 24 hours to find pre-draft videos of Victor Claver and Sebastian Telfair shooting anywhere near 56/61 in practice, half of which are 3s, and I'll add "I am Natebishop3s Bitch" in my sig for a month. If you can't, I'll add "Natebishop3 went full retard on me" in my sig for a month.

Agree?

Go right ahead and add that classy sig, but I have personally watched Dale Davis stick jumper after jumper... Dale Davis.... in practice. If you're hoping that being able to shoot in practice means that he's going to be able to shoot in live games, you're gonna have a bad time. Not saying that Collins can't shoot, just saying you shouldn't use that as an indicator.

But hey, keep it classy home skillet.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Being able to shoot in practice doesn't mean anything. It really doesn't. Sebastian Telfair would be an All-Star if shooting well in practice meant shooting well in games. Same with Victor Claver and Martell Webster and a million other guys that lack the confidence to hit a shot in live play.

I'm starting to think this is a huge problem for the Pat C and Jake Laymans of the NBA. It's mental because they know they can shoot lights out in practice but they have to make them in the games to stick in the league or get playing time.

You know they have the form but they have the yips.

 

[Chris Craig]

Yeah, one would have thought the stats would have been better for Collins after the first two summer league games. But, then again not really. Connaughton is running the point and layman is the best other player next to Swanigan. When hes playing with dame and Cj and more talented guys around him hes going to play that much better. Im not worried about him, hes where he needs to be. 3 blocks a game. Ill take it.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Go right ahead and add that classy sig, but I have personally watched Dale Davis stick jumper after jumper... Dale Davis.... in practice. If you're hoping that being able to shoot in practice means that he's going to be able to shoot in live games, you're gonna have a bad time. Not saying that Collins can't shoot, just saying you shouldn't use that as an indicator.

But hey, keep it classy home skillet.

How about the fact that he shot 48% from 3 at Gonzaga? The video isn't some fluke - the dude can shoot.

BTW, I haven't been to an NBA practice, but I've seen NBA players pregame shootarounds - nobody, not even Lillard and McCollum, are shooting 92% unguarded in those situations.

Keepin' it classy for 53 years, frying pan.

 

[Boob-No-More]

My thoughts as well, still upsetting for a top 10 pick. Also a long way from "I don't see why I can't be rookie of the year" but oh well, he's potentially the future of our team so let's pray it pans out.

I'm not worried. I said on draft night he might not even crack the rotation until near the end of his rookie season. This is not unusual at all for a 10th pick in the draft. Most lottery picks get significant playing time simply because they are drafted by crappy teams. When a lottery pick ends up on a playoff team via trade, he usually gets less PT as a rookie.

Hell, LaMarcus Aldridge was picked 2nd in the draft, but didn't start seeing regular minutes until after the trade deadline his rookie year - when the team finally stopped showcasing former all star Jamal Magloire. Aldridge was buried behind Magloire and Przybilla at center and Zach Randolph and Travis Outlaw at power forward.

C.J. was also a 1oth pick and a 4-year college player, but didn't become part of the regular rotation until the end of his second season when both Wes Matthews and Aron Afflallo were both injured.

Here are the #10 picks since 2010:

2010 - Paul George
2011 - Jimmer Freddette
2012 - Austin Rivers
2013 - C.J. McCollum
2014 - Elfrid Payton
2015 - Justice Winslow
2016 - Thon Maker

Not one of those players averaged in double figures as a rookie. Payton averaged the most points (8.9) and the most minutes. George was second in scoring at 7.4 ppg. He is clearly the best recent #10 pick, but did not crack the starting line up until March 9 of his rookie season. Rivers and Winslow both played big minutes as rookies, but only averaged 6.4 ad 6.2 ppg.

Expecting any #10 pick to have a significant impact as a rookie is unrealistic based on recent history. If you go back 20 years there have been some very good players selected at #10 (Joe Johnson, Jason Terry), but only a few have had a significant impact their rookie year (Paul Pierce, Brook Lopez).

Collins is young and inexperienced compared to most other #10 picks. If you set your expectations inline with the historical performance of #10 picks, I think you'll be a lot less disappointed.

BNM

 

[Mediocre Man]

It's better than not being able to shoot in practice. It isn't the end, but it is a good start.

My thoughts on summer league. Not a huge deal, but he hasn't been very good

 

[Reep]

I wish you guys could see an NBA practice, because practically everyone can shoot well in practice. It would blow you away.

Blazers and visiting teams used to practice in a gym by my house (old days). Watched Kiki do his shooting workout. What a machine.