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illmatic99 said:
To the cap experts, what would it take to do a double S&T of Nurk for Ayton... or something like that? We can also open up close to max space if we just simply renounce Nurk's 12 mil caphold.

A S&T would give Phoenix something in return so Ayton doesn't just walk for nothing. Sarver appears to be balking at giving him the max, but I don't think it's that cost prohibitive. This is still the sorta baby max for Ayton coming off his rookie deal. I think he's a ~30 mil player if healthy.
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the big problem is that Ayton would be a BYC contract in a S&T. That creates a differential that is tough to bridge

for instance, say he signs for 25M (too much in my view). Phoenix would only get credit for 12.5M in outgoing salary while the Blazers would have 25M coming in. That would mean the most the Suns could take back would be 15.7M. The least the Blazers could trade would be 20M. That's a 4.3M gap and that creates a CBA game of bop-a-mole
 
I don’t really care how we make it all work but id like our frontcourt to be Ayton and Jabari. That is all.
 
wizenheimer said:
the big problem is that Ayton would be a BYC contract in a S&T. That creates a differential that is tough to bridge

for instance, say he signs for 25M (too much in my view). Phoenix would only get credit for 12.5M in outgoing salary while the Blazers would have 25M coming in. That would mean the most the Suns could take back would be 15.7M. The least the Blazers could trade would be 20M. That's a 4.3M gap and that creates a CBA game of bop-a-mole
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Just gotta make it a big, complicated (read: unrealistic) deal with multiple teams. :)
 
wizenheimer said:
the big problem is that Ayton would be a BYC contract in a S&T. That creates a differential that is tough to bridge

for instance, say he signs for 25M (too much in my view). Phoenix would only get credit for 12.5M in outgoing salary while the Blazers would have 25M coming in. That would mean the most the Suns could take back would be 15.7M. The least the Blazers could trade would be 20M. That's a 4.3M gap and that creates a CBA game of bop-a-mole
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Separate trades? Does that work? Like we sign him outright and then trade talent for trash in a separate trade?
 
Odds are extremely low we could get Ayton. Planets have to line up for S&T, plus we don't have a player that would get them over the hump.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Separate trades? Does that work? Like we sign him outright and then trade talent for trash in a separate trade?
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If it was only for 25M we'd have enough cap room to do it if we just renounced our rights to Nurk, we wouldn't have to trade anyone. If we had to offer the max to get him we'd either have to let Hart walk or trade Nas or Justise for like a second rounder or a future first and just sign an undrafted rookie in their place. Oh and this is assuming that we draft no higher than 6 and fill out the roster with rookie min players. If we move up to the first pick we'd have to clear out both Nas and Justise.
 
Hoopguru said:
Odds are extremely low we could get Ayton. Planets have to line up for S&T, plus we don't have a player that would get them over the hump.
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No planets have to line up for us to let Nurk and Hart walk. We'd have a pretty big hole at whatever forward position we don't fill in the draft but hey maybe our second rounder would be the next Herb Jones or both Nas and Justise stay healthy.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Separate trades? Does that work? Like we sign him outright and then trade talent for trash in a separate trade?
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to sign Ayton outright, assuming he'd get the max, the Blazers would have to renounce their rights to Nurkic, their MLE, all their TPE's, and maybe even Hart. All for Ayton?

the Warriors just made it to the WCF with Looney as their only C. They are spending 7.3M on Looney and Bjelica

The Mavs are spending 19M on Powell and Kleber and Kleber is way overpaid.

IMO, spending 33M/year on a traditional C is not a good idea
 
wizenheimer said:
to sign Ayton outright, assuming he'd get the max, the Blazers would have to renounce their rights to Nurkic, their MLE, all their TPE's, and maybe even Hart. All for Ayton?

the Warriors just made it to the WCF with Looney as their only C. They are spending 7.3M on Looney and Bjelica

The Mavs are spending 19M on Powell and Kleber and Kleber is way overpaid.

IMO, spending 33M/year on a traditional C is not a good idea
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Yeah, I think if the intel was that Bridges could be had for the max, he'd be the smarter of the two. At that point we would probably want to draft a C with our first round pick though. Duren fits the bill of "super athletic big" that Dame has been begging for. The shitty thing is that we could renounce the rights to Nurk and possibly Hart just to be matched by one of those two teams.
 
wizenheimer said:
the big problem is that Ayton would be a BYC contract in a S&T. That creates a differential that is tough to bridge

for instance, say he signs for 25M (too much in my view). Phoenix would only get credit for 12.5M in outgoing salary while the Blazers would have 25M coming in. That would mean the most the Suns could take back would be 15.7M. The least the Blazers could trade would be 20M. That's a 4.3M gap and that creates a CBA game of bop-a-mole
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Even Jake Fishcer brought up the idea of Nurk for Ayton S&T today. I wonder if there some esoteric cap machination that we are all unable to find that our so-called cap expert GM can.

If we can upgrade from Nurk to Ayton, while still retaining 7 and our TPE, I think we might be able to go up a tier for our projections next year.
 
illmatic99 said:
Even Jake Fishcer brought up the idea of Nurk for Ayton S&T today. I wonder if there some esoteric cap machination that we are all unable to find that our so-called cap expert GM can.

If we can upgrade from Nurk to Ayton, while still retaining 7 and our TPE, I think we might be able to go up a tier for our projections next year.
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it can be done, it just has to become a bigger trade, maybe even a 3 team trade but with Ayton the only moving part with BYC status

if it's just Port/Phoenix (I'm just guessing here):

* Ayton (26M first year) + Saric (9.67M) + Payne (6M) = 28.7M outgoing X 1.25 = 35.9M max incoming salary

* that would leave the Blazers having to absorb 41.7M in incoming salary meaning the least they could send out would be 33.4M

* so the window is 33.4M-35.9M. If Bledsoe is the filler, and he'd just about have to be at 19.3M, that would mean Nurkic would have to sign for between 14.1-16.6M in first year salary

in that regard it's doable. It's even believable that Sarver would much rather have Nurkic at 15-17M/year than Ayton at 27-29M/year

Now, I'm not taking the time to calculate Portland's status with a hard cap after a trade bringing in nearly 42M in salary, but I suspect that might be a fatal flaw in this deal. I also didn't bother to figure on how Portland's TPE's could fit

I'll say again that I think a team like Portland investing 30M/year or more in the traditional C position is misguided. Just reviw what has happened i the playoffs this year. teams are much better off with the versatility of PF's and stretch-4's manning the C position than paying big buck for a traditional C; and Ayton is a lot more of a traditional C than not
 
illmatic99 said:
Even Jake Fishcer brought up the idea of Nurk for Ayton S&T today. I wonder if there some esoteric cap machination that we are all unable to find that our so-called cap expert GM can.
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I've been wondering this too. It did seem like part of his overall plan was his knowledge of and ability to navigate the cap.
 
wizenheimer said:
I'll say again that I think a team like Portland investing 30M/year or more in the traditional C position is misguided. Just reviw what has happened i the playoffs this year. teams are much better off with the versatility of PF's and stretch-4's manning the C position than paying big buck for a traditional C; and Ayton is a lot more of a traditional C than not
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There is some merit to this obviously, but I think most of it is purely anecdotal. Ayton would be the best pick and pop/pick and roll partner for Dame this side of Aldridge. And his defense is getting better every year at age 23. Just last playoffs, we saw Ayton's value on both ends of the floor. Unlike other "traditional" bigs, I don't think he's gonna get played off the floor because he can switch onto guards in some capacity AND is a far better post player/finisher than guys like Gobert.

It makes most sense to use our assets for wings, but there is something to potentially having a competitive advantage with a top 5 center in the conference. And if we manage to land him for Nurk + Bledsoe, our only real drawback is opportunity cost. We could still add wing help afterwards if we retain our TPE and #7.
 
illmatic99 said:
There is some merit to this obviously, but I think most of it is purely anecdotal. Ayton would be the best pick and pop/pick and roll partner for Dame this side of Aldridge. And his defense is getting better every year at age 23. Just last playoffs, we saw Ayton's value on both ends of the floor. Unlike other "traditional" bigs, I don't think he's gonna get played off the floor because he can switch onto guards in some capacity AND is a far better post player/finisher than guys like Gobert.

It makes most sense to use our assets for wings, but there is something to potentially having a competitive advantage with a top 5 center in the conference. And if we manage to land him for Nurk + Bledsoe, our only real drawback is opportunity cost. We could still add wing help afterwards if we retain our TPE and #7.
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Agree with every word of this. AND... I'll add, even though most of us hate what Cronin did at the deadline, I think it's also safe to say we were all pleasantly surprised at Hart's contribution. Somebody recently brought up that Ayton is the type of C that Chauncey is wanting... It's not outside the realm of possibilities that Cronin just has a very good understanding of what Chauncey is wanting to build and going out and getting him those pieces. That's not to say that he didn't overpay for them, cuz he just flat-out did, but Ayton for Nurk straight up would be a big win.

ALSO the type of move that covers us mid- and post-Dame, if/when we have to trade him...
 
illmatic99 said:
There is some merit to this obviously, but I think most of it is purely anecdotal. Ayton would be the best pick and pop/pick and roll partner for Dame this side of Aldridge. And his defense is getting better every year at age 23. Just last playoffs, we saw Ayton's value on both ends of the floor. Unlike other "traditional" bigs, I don't think he's gonna get played off the floor because he can switch onto guards in some capacity AND is a far better post player/finisher than guys like Gobert.

It makes most sense to use our assets for wings, but there is something to potentially having a competitive advantage with a top 5 center in the conference. And if we manage to land him for Nurk + Bledsoe, our only real drawback is opportunity cost. We could still add wing help afterwards if we retain our TPE and #7.
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Yeah I could see the appeal to add Ayton. As Wiz mentions, a huge hickup could be the hard cap. If the Blazers bring in $42 million in salary they probably don't have the TPE and maybe they lose the MLE.
 
illmatic99 said:
Could Durant be in play this summer?

Apparently, he hasn't been in contact with the Nets FO since the season ended, and they probably won't bring Kyrie back, meaning KD would be left with a whole lot of nothing + a broken Ben Simmons.

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/nets/ny-20220524-hfug5wiemzcalocthifea7p7p4-story.html
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What would be the type of offer the Nets would consider? We just don't have much for young players with upside on our roster, or vets a 3rd team would want.

Eric Bledsoe, Josh Hart, Nassir Little, Keon
#7, Milwaukee pick, Blazer 2028 pick, swap rights in 2025+2026+2027

We really can't offer much else. Not sure that is enough, although the #7 pick is a good piece for them. If they also shipped out Simmons for much of anything they could have a nice rebuild.

One big hickup could be the Brooklyn picks, they owe a bunch to Houston so I'm not sure it makes sense for them to do such a complete rebuild.
 
Dame
Simons
?
Durant
Nurk

Does this team contend? If they get some good vet minimum guys it just might.
 
Mediocre Man said:
For sure. Of “real” players, he’s 2nd behind KPJ of Houston in catch and shoot efg% at 71.5. CJ though, while lower on the list, is still at 63.6, which is just outside the top ten of players averaging 20 plus minutes a game
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But CJ also is one of the most blackhole blinders on "this is my shot baby" guards I've seen on the Blazers, probably since Damon Stoudamire. Ant is an ULTRA willing and BRILLIANT passer. He's also radically different from CJ in terms of demeanor. CJ is hot and cold. Ant is always frosty and always in the zone much like Dame. Of course, Ant will be like Dame and have off games, but he has that killer mentality and frostiness that Dame has. CJ is IMO mentally weak. One of the sole times he wasn't like that IMO was that quad overtime game to give him credit where credit is due.
 
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